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Will vaporizing cannabis impact my spinal fusion

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by nugasawrus, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. #41 Honokiol, Nov 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
    Bone remodeling (covers growth repair and clean up) are strictly controlled by cannabinoids.  In particular the endocannabinoids our bodies make naturally.  The cannabinoids found in cannabis can interfere with the natural endocannabinoid signaling and in some cases this interference may produce an undesirable effect.
     
    Search results at PMC: "Bone" "Cannabinoid"
    http://www.ncbi.nlm...." "Cannabinoid"
     
    Role of cannabinoids in the regulation of bone remodeling
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3499879/
     
    Three separate cells need to be differentiated form stem cells to conduct business.  The relative numbers of each cell type determine Bone strength and Bone Mineral Dinsity (BMD) weather bone grows, remains in balance or is absorbed and weakened. 
     
    Osteoblasts are responsible for assembling bone.
    Osteocytes are the structural members hidden inside the calcium
    Osteoclasts clean up dead broken and used crap left behind
     
    The upshot of this is that at least three different but closely related endocannabinoids are required to tell the stem cells what to become, where to go and what to do when they get there.  The specific endocannabinoids are yet to be identified.  If you read long enough most of the evidence suggests that the Omega-3 fat commonly known as EPA is the most probable dietary source of the endocannabinoids we are looking for however the other Omega-3 fats especially DHA could be the source instead. It really does not mater to us for what we are doing, Our bodies can figure it out as long as all the right stuff is available.
     
    The results produced by cannabis in any individual member of the population are mixed.  In younger individuals It has been well established for about 30 years that peak BMD is impaired.  In the older population as we become susceptible to osteoporosis cannabis is thought to be protective and supportive of maintaining BMD but this has not been my personal experience.  My BMD did not start improving until I started using Fish Oil at a rate of 4 to 5 gm total EPA + DHA daily and exercising.  The signal required to promote bone growth like mussel growth is triggered by work and the micro injury that accompanies work.  Also all the other correct nutritional construction material including calcium and Vitamin D must be in place the endocannabinoid is just the signaling methood our body uses to run the construction crew.
     
    Effect of high-impact and low-repetition training on bones in ovariectomized rats.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11547839
     
    Now on to brown seaweed.  There are 3 super groups of seaweed Red, Green and Brown.
     
    Effect of Fucoidan Extracted from Mozuku on Experimental Cartilaginous Tissue Injury
    http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3509535/
     
    Fucoidan is found in all brown seaweeds and the one known as Wakame is easily found in great abundance in many east Asian groceries.  I'm unable to sort out whether or not Mozuku is available where I live.
     
    The botanical name for Mozuku is Cladosiphon okamuranus
    http://en.wikipedia....phon_okamuranus
     
    Seaweeds are the upstream source of EPA and DHA that fish and other marine animals eat.  The fish oil I wrote about above came from seaweed originally.  For people like my friend Granny it will contribute to daily totals of these fats form sustainable vegetarian sources.

     
  2. Very helpful. I will begin reading over those studies and reach my own conclusion. But from my understanding of what you've written, would it mean it's okay to ingest/vaporize cannabis providing the user takes other supplemented needs such as Omega-3 etc. For regulated BMD.

    Nugasawrus
     
  3.  
    probably but I'm not a Dr.  I was using both when the results from my last bone mineral density test called a DEXA Scan showed improvement.  I was showing continuing bone loss with Cannabis alone in years past.
     
    I use Cannabis for pain as written earlier in this thread and Omega-3 fats for numerous other reasons including my bone health.  Granny will tell you that Omega-3 fats are required for healthy cannabinoid neuroreceptors so it makes the cannabis work better for that reason also.  Because cannabinoids including the endocannabinoids interact with each other in generally favorable ways, it is probable that the combination is stronger than the sum of the components.  There is a lot of research supporting that statement.  I source all the cannabinoids I can find, MMJ was just the first in a long and growing list of sources of cannabinoid and cannabinoid receptor active stuff.  The only one I don't use is Echinacea which I'm allergic to.  The first two links are talking about different components found in Magnolia bark, seeds & flowers.  Though I don't smoke it is because of personal health issues.  The pain treatments I use can be used while using cannabis in any other way known to man.  These are not this or that choices as much as this and that options.  Choose the ones that work in support of your personal health goals.
     
    Look at theses:
    Magnolia Extract, Magnolol, and Metabolites: Activation of Cannabinoid CB2 Receptors and Blockade of the Related GPR55
    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ml300235q
     
    Methylhonokiol attenuates neuroinflammation: a role for cannabinoid receptors?
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3419612/
     
    Tea catechins' affinity for human cannabinoid receptors.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19897346
     
    The endocannabinoid system as a target for alkamides from Echinacea angustifolia roots.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16142631
     
    Beta-caryophyllene is a dietary cannabinoid
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2449371/
     
    Since you're interested in endocannabinoids there is this also,  Sorry I'm giving you so much reading :(
     
    Novel endogenous peptide agonists of cannabinoid receptors
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2735371/
     
  4. #44 nugasawrus, Nov 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2013
     
    Thanks for putting in your time into helping me achieve my goals. I really appreciate it.
    As for the reading, the more knowledge the better, plus it gives me something to do with all my recovery time :p
     
    Nugasawrus
     
  5.  
    I went looking for one more I'd seen going by during the last year or two.  Cissus quadrangularis On PMC it reads like there is a Cannabinoid hiding inside but I can not find it.  It may not be known at this time however whenever I see a list like these two I suspect and go looking for cannabinoids.
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=%22cissus+quadrangularis%22
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=%22cissus+quadrangularis%22
     
  6. I am sorry to hear of your trouble with smoking and the resulting coughing delaying your recovery. I am glad to hear that edibles and lozenges were effective in helping you with the pain and side effects of your surgery.

    It is my understanding that THC degrades into CBN. CBD and THC are both decarboxylated cannabinoids deriving from a common precursor. There is an easy method for converting CBD to THC (expose it to a strong acid solution which rotates the CBD molecule to delta9 THC). I am not aware of any method to convert THC to CBD. The ease of converting CBD to THC is one of the reasons why CBD falls into questionable legal territory. In the United States, precursors and analogs are often held to the same schedule status as their related scheduled drug.

    I don't understand why the many of the cannabinoid tables and charts seem to under-emphasize the effect of THC. In most of the recent charts, there seems to be a memory hole relating to the fact that THC was shown in a 1974 study to have an anti-neoplastic (anti-cancer) effect. The effect of high THC oil on cancer, particularly on skin cancers is well documented on the internet.

    Thank you all for sharing your experiences with Cannabis and spine trouble.

    Herbal Relief
     
  7. #47 Herbal Relief, Nov 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2013
    Double Post
     
  8. I am fused as well as having a my t1-2-3 removed. Had the bone graft too.

    My surgery was 18 hours & I was not expected to recover for a good year. Smoked weed every min of every day! I recovered in 3 1/2 mos. The weed helped the pain better than the opiates. In fact I called my doc a week later & demanded he take me off the oxy & dilaudin & Valium & give me a 10mg bs painkiller. My nurse & doctor
    Both agreed seemed to work wonders for me...


    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  9.  
    This has been the most pleasing news I've read this week. Congratulations my fellow blade! Could you please elaborate on the results? What did the surgeon say after they saw the first scan/xray? etc.
     
    Nugasawrus
     
  10. Takes quite sometime maybe 3-4 mos to see any progress on the fusion in the x-ray. Be patient. Eat A LOT of calcium. Try the chewable calcium bites from gnc. I did that w skim plus choc milk, a lot of walking & a heck of a lot of determination.


    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  11.  
    Thanks Frank, great to hear you have been recovering very well!
     
    Nugaswarus
     
  12. #52 nugasawrus, Jan 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2014
    Dear fellow Blades, I am pleased to inform you that I have made great progress with my spine reconstruction/fusion recovery. Two months have passed and I have been told my healing rate is better than average. I waited around 2 weeks after surgery before using cannabis. Then vaporised it everyday. Roughly 1-2 sessions a day. Along with the occasional bong hit or joint.
    There was a period where I only smoked joints during the 8th week. (new years). I did take calcium, magnesium and omega 3 for the first month. I am well aware that everyone is affected differently from cannabis. Therefore I believe the user should thoroughly research and investigate the affects it has on their body before choosing cannabis as a medicinal alternative. However I strongly feel as though cannabis significantly benefited my recovery.
     
    The most difficult part of my recovery is the emotional aspect. The drugs the doctors prescribed me made me very depressed. Cannabis replaced every pill without any harsh side effects. I am pleased to say my fusion is healing well. Thanks everyone for the support.
     
    Nugasawrus
     
  13. Clinical studies on marijuana are few. Also due to complicated legalities involved, very few pharmaceutical companies are investing in cannabinoid research. But marijuana users, whether medical or recreational, are of the opinion that it is a great drug for relaxation. Marijuana has been used as a pain treatment for hundreds of years.
     
  14. #54 nugasawrus, Feb 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2014
    It has been just over 3 months now. The surgery is healing well however I am still experiencing acute pain along with chronic pain in my back/legs. Bud has helped treat the pain but no luck with curing it. Have reached my 8th specialist opinion without any success. Still looking for answers to what is causing the pain. May eventually try different countries etc. Europe.

    Open to any ideas.
    There's always hope.

    Nugasawrus

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  15.  
    Have you tried a topical cannabis pain preparation yet?  Not a cure for the knife but it helps for pain.
     
  16. Not sure how to make topicals my friend. But that is a good suggestion.

    Nugasawrus

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  17. #57 Honokiol, Feb 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2014
    It is easy.
     
    You can soak bud in alcohol making a tincture of hemp.  You will get every thing you want off the plant in a minute or so.  Use the least ammount of alcohol that will take all the resin off the bud.  This can be mopped on where the pain is using a small piece of a chamois or use the tincture soaked chamois as a poultice to increase contact time with the dose and it's size.  Wont get you high but works.  If you want or need it stronger you can evaporate off some of the alcohol or use hash to make the tincture.
     
    If you want to get fancy with your tincture you can make it into a "Bay Rum"
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_rum
    http://www.google.com/search?q=Bay+rum+Recipe
     
    I add the Cannabis last when I make Bay Rum.  About 1 gm hash oil and 1 gm hash in 1 pint finished product filtered with a paper coffee filter to finish.
     
    If you have hash oil aka RSO you can mix 1/4 Cup of body lotion with a gram of hash oil.  It is easier to put the lotion into the Hash Oil than to do it the other way round.  Start with a glop of lotion that is about the same size as the glop of hash oil.  You are using the lotion to thin the hash oil at first.  The better you thin the hash oil in the beginning the better the finished product will come out.  It pays to buy a good quality organic moisturizer scented with real essential oils.  The essential oils help carry the hash oil into the neuroreceptors.
     
  18. Thank you so much Honokiol.

    Nugasawrus

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  19.  
    I am just finishing my next "Bay Rum"  I'll filter it today or tomorrow.  If you looked at the links don't let the simplicity of this cause you to write off the improvement in effectiveness that making Bay Rum can bring to your pain reliever.  In particular Black Pepper and Cloves in the Bay Rum with the Cannabis will bring synergy to the medicine.  Syzygium Aromaticum is the botanical name for the plant Cloves come from.
     
    Anti-Nociceptive and Anti-Inflammatory Activities of Ethanol Extract of Syzygium Aromaticum Flower Bud in Wistar Rats and Mice
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2816534/?report=classic
     
    I just posted this about Black Pepper.  There is a reason people use to put it in their Bay Rum recipe.
    http://forum.grasscity.com/medical-marijuana-usage-applications/1282798-cannabis-black-pepper.html
     
  20. #60 nugasawrus, Feb 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2014
    This could be the answer to treating my acute/chronic nerve pain.
    I will investigate and make an attempt to create it.
    Thanks Honokiol

    Nugasawrus
     

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