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Root APHIDS Thread! Identify and destroy!!!!!!!

aphids bugs pests mites War

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#1
pokesmot247

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Havent grown in a year or so, just started a new grow.

One of my seeds popped a week ago but after burying it like I did the others, one still hadnt shown its head yet. I figured it either molded or died so I dug it up. To my surprise, it was COVERED in tiny white clear bugs. I got out my magnifying glass 60x-100x and discovered they looked like some kind of MITE. To the human eye they look like dust....

I read up and saw that they could be mold mites, but then after adding marijuana to the google search there's a possibility that they're root aphids.

What treats root aphids? Ive got spinosad, cold pressed neem, captain jacks bug brew, all kinds of stuff to treat all kinds of ailments, but before I proceed, i was curious as to what others think or know these to be. Heres a pic. They are see through when magnified and once i shook some onto glass plate the mite couldnt move anymore. Perhaps its in a stage of developing larvae?

IMG_5373.JPG

seriously need some help guys. I buried it back in the soil so the seedling wouldnt dry out. Im not ready to give up yet. Please let me know what to use and what these are. You can zoom in pretty far is you have a computer to put this on.

Edited by pokesmot247, 06 January 2014 - 06:48 PM.


#2
TheAnswer121

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Edited by TheAnswer121, 14 November 2013 - 06:58 PM.


#3
pokesmot247

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Thanks for the help answer. Its a below soil problem. Two of my 10 or so plants didn't pop through the soil. The first was all white n creamy and just mushy. Soil wasn't that wet either, but thses little bastards are stunting the growth of this lil plant. I'm going to remove the seedling, sumberge it in a stream of water and let those suckers wash off, then replant and watch it. I'll do some reading of my own to find out wtf these things could be.

I've dealth with every bug from aphids, to spider mites, caterpillars, tent worms, had beneficial mites, etc, but none that were stunting the seedlings growth like this. Weird thing is they were hiding inside the partially opened seed. I pulled the "hood" off the seedling and they were all over....fuckin sux man.

Jus needa find out if any of my chemicals can save them, I also have bacillus theregenissis (bt).

#4
TheAnswer121

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Edited by TheAnswer121, 14 November 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#5
pokesmot247

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So I was reading up and on another thread OSUB says they could be soil mites. Will have to do some more reading and update In a bit.

I keep seeing azomax too and also those pyrethrum dunks.

http://forum.grassci...nfestation.html

Edited by pokesmot247, 14 November 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#6
TheAnswer121

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Edited by TheAnswer121, 14 November 2013 - 07:24 PM.

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#7
pokesmot247

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Taken from another site:

  #2
bobbyblaze
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 96

I don't see much in your picture, but I have been dealing with bugs in my soil for years now. At first I thought they were root aphids, I did a bunch of reading on here and have concluded.

When doing a x30-60 magnification, the bugs in my soil do NOT have the dual pipes that aphids have, and that there mouth parts were more mite looking than aphid.

I'm no expert on this but I do know that if its an Aphid it will have the 2 pipes on its rear end. That is one way to tell.

I'm 90% sure the bugs I have are hypoaspis miles, tho I have no idea were they came from.


So I looked under the 100x microscope and found two "tail pipes" on the end of the bugs......

According to the post I found elsewhere that's a sure sign :(

Wish someone who knew definitively would chime in. Appreciate your help though answer

#8
TheAnswer121

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Edited by TheAnswer121, 14 November 2013 - 07:42 PM.


#9
pokesmot247

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I pmed OSUB as well, just in case.

Perhaps Jerry knows too.

Problem I'm having is that they don't look like any of the pics of root aphids. Also, they are completely clear. Looks like water almost and you can see through them. Also, unlike the pics of "tail pipes" I see online that are in the middle of the back and stick up, these "tail pipes" are at the end of the butt and drag along the ground.

Edited by pokesmot247, 14 November 2013 - 07:53 PM.


#10
pokesmot247

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Still not sure wtf these things are....so much conflicting info tbh.

http://www.rollitup....-purposely.html

http://thehotpepper....et-rid-of-them/

In case anyone wants to be educated.

#11
pokesmot247

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So apparently azomax doesn't work at all, nor does pyrethrum, in fact, not a single store bought chemical kills these little bastards. The ONLY thing that works and kills them in 24 hours is a fungus developed to kill them. it's called BOTANIGARD

Proof not to waste your money on other stuff:
http://www.rollitup....-purposely.html

http://www.amazon.co..._hu-rd_add_1_dp

And it's expensive. The reviews will sell you on it, guaranteed.

I'm going to wait and see if I do have a pest or predator mite since I'm using fox farm soil, which recently added predator mites without telling anyone :smh:

Lots of people freaking out when they see a buncha little mites walking around the base of their plants....

Edited by pokesmot247, 15 November 2013 - 05:09 AM.


#12
Sam Handwich

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they appear to be soil mites and not root aphids.

 

 

the common "root aphid" is black - not white.

 

 

aphids are generally much larger than that as well.

 

 

soil mites will not harm your plant & will only contribute to the soil. there is no need to try and kill them.

 

 

on the other hand, your seedling could have trouble sprouting in foxfarm soil, depending on the brand of theirs that you used.

 

 

 

edit: BotaniGuard did not work to kill root aphids when i was battling them the one time. it was completely ineffective.


Edited by Sam Handwich, 20 November 2013 - 11:19 PM.


#13
pokesmot247

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they appear to be soil mites and not root aphids.


the common "root aphid" is black - not white.


aphids are generally much larger than that as well.


soil mites will not harm your plant & will only contribute to the soil. there is no need to try and kill them.


on the other hand, your seedling could have trouble sprouting in foxfarm soil, depending on the brand of theirs that you used.



edit: BotaniGuard did not work to kill root aphids when i was battling them the one time. it was completely ineffective.

Here's a link to elsewhere describing my exact problem and I'll post links to the treatment as well.

https://www.greenpas...era-root-aphid/
These guys described exactly what my plants are doing.


https://www.icmag.co...ad.php?t=159960
As did this thread.

Going to try these two treatments next
http://t.homedepot.c...1810A/202616493


http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top

The latter contains imidacloprid which seems to work well against them.

The problems presents as magnesium deficiency. The leaves begin to get gray spots, twist and curl like a roller coaster. These bugs can be found all around the base of the pot. I have found them under leaves that are dying. They leave the typical swollen round microscopic blob marks of aphids and some mites. It's bizarre.

I've done a ton of reading on many forums, For up to 8 hours at a time. Ph is 6.7

Worm tea grown from my own worm bins is my only feed and has been for years with amazing results. This issue started my last grow. No remedy seems to fix it. As you said, botinagard does nothing, NOR do nematodes or azomax. There are tons of threads internetwide that make this claim.

White root aphids are very common, as are yellow. There are thousands of black adult bodies in the corners of my tent. I thought they were dust until I inspected further and closer. I've tried cold pressed neem mixed with soap, pyrethrum, and other chemicals to no avail. I really didn't want to go sytemic since I grow organic but I'm out of options and need my meds, so I'm going to let them veg another two months to flush out the systemic poisons. I think fox farm ocean forest is contaminated or my grow room is. There was a 1 year break between this grow and my last. Time had no effect on the soil.

Edited by pokesmot247, 04 January 2014 - 04:35 AM.


#14
potty perry

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they're one of the worst pests (probably!!) that can affect your marijuana plants. to kill them, use "Imidacloprid." it's an aphid killer and has been used in several pesticides.

you can also use Bayer Fruit & Vegetable for Root Aphids


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#15
Sam Handwich

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the imidacloprid willkill the aphids, as we have used it in the past for aphids, mealybugs, thrips, spider mites, etc IN A COMMERCIAL GREENHOUSE WITH ORNAMENTALS. this stuff is not to be used on plants for consumption.

 

 

it is a systemic pesticide that will stay in the plant until you harvest (given imidacloprid's half-life).

 

 

i had the same root aphid problems and started over because i did not want to go the systemic pesticide route. that shit can give you pancreatic cancer.

 

 

yea sure bayer may say its safe for fruit & vegetables, but bayer also said heroin was a safe alternative to morphine.

 

 

 

its your call. i wouldnt do it & i would just start over but to each their own  :confused_2:


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#16
pokesmot247

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Taken from elsewhere:
DIFFERENT TYPES OF ROOT APHIDS

Myzus Periscae, Aphis Fabae, Aphis Gossypi, Apaterae aka Bhang Aphid/Hemp Louse, and Hope Aphid (p.humuli) to name a few of them.

Heres what ive done so far.

I mixed neem with soap and a rose pesticide my wife had laying around as well ad captain jacks. I sprayed the entire plants and soaked the roots and left the plants tosit for 3 hours to dry. Put them back under the lights the next day.

No more crawlers after that.

BUT

The plants exploded with mature adult flyers.

SO

I went ahead and treated with 2tsp per gallon of BAYER TREE AND SHRUB.

It has a higher concentration of imidicloprin. It also has a chemical called clothianidin. These chemicals are essentially nerve agents for insects and as mentioned, systemic. They have an incredibly long half life and will be taken up by plants.

Ive waited two days.

Since then my plants have perked up, however, I've lost 30 percent of my leaves. I pulled them off this morning.

To my dismay, the population of adult flying root aphids has quadrupled.

I added a fat layer of diatomaceous earth to the top layer and saw immediate results as the little flyers flipped, flopped and twisted around in what appeared to me to be a slow agony. I also watched last night as a few flyers turned in circles like the honey bees I've seen die locally after farmers used this toxic shit on our fields every year. They dumped 7 MILLION TONS of pesticides on us in central california last year. Cancer is a definite probability.

Im at a loss. Literally, figuratively, financially and now medically as well.

These were my best seeds and id saved them for years.

I ordered some pyrethrin off amazon. Expensive stuff for a tiny bottle. Waiting on that now but says it wont be here for a week.

I went ahead and mixed 4 ounces of Bayer tree and shrub with 2 ounces of bayer citrus/fruit per gallon, which is a ridiculous amount then set it aside, in the dark in milk containers as a final FUCK YOU to the root aphids should they defeat me in this war. That little pestinuke i mixed up is not to be used to save the plants, but literally wipe these bastards out before i bury this soil in The field next to my home.

Ive dealt with every kind of bug you can imagine so far in my gardening career and this is the first that has resisted all other forms of natural pesticides and even this current system pesticide. I was reading that it was responsible for a lot of human famines in the history of man.

I cant afford to start over. I was planning to call it quits on medicinal growing after this grow and if i continue to fail ill hang up my hat. Im placing the blame solely on FOX FARM OCEAN FORREST soil.

I added a mere handful of new ffof to my very old and sterilized soil when i was putting my grow together. It is winter here and the outside insects are not to be found, especially since it has been freezing here a lot lately. Im a sucker for cleanliness and there is no other way this contaminate could have made it into my soil. The ffof has been stored in a sealed container for almost two years. When i opened it up, the soil was fresh and still wet to my utter surprise (some of it has been stored away for years and years and i brought it back with microbial teas), when i removed it from storage. I should have sterilized it but i didnt. I wont buy any more fox farm ocean forrest. I thought for a long time that i had an isolated case, i also thought i was lucky and had beneficial mites. Google has shown me A LOT of people are getting this pest from fox farm cean forrest! Ive always defeated the fungus gnats with neem and have beaten every pest until now.....

:(

I will probably kill these plants in the next few days if the bugs dont get them first.

My plan was to vegetate for another two months to allow them to come back before putting them into full flower. Not so sure anymore..


Edit: interesting fact

What is Imidacloprid used on?

Imidacloprid is a systemic, chloro-nicotinyl insecticide with soil, seed and foliar uses for the control of sucking insects including rice hoppers, aphids, thrips, whiteflies, termites, turf insects, soil insects and some beetles. It is most commonly used on rice, cereal, maize, potatoes, vegetables, sugar beets, fruit, cotton, hops and turf, and is especially systemic when used as a seed or soil treatment. The chemical works by interfering with the transmission of stimuli in the insect nervous system. Specifically, it causes a blockage in a type of neuronal pathway (nicotinergic) that is more abundant in insects than in warm-blooded animals (making the chemical selectively more toxic to insects than warm-blooded animals). This blockage leads to the accumulation of acetylcholine, an important neurotransmitter, resulting in the insect's paralysis, and eventually death. It is effective on contact and via stomach action (3).

SO unless youre growing all of the above foods. Youre eating it!

:smoke:

Edited by pokesmot247, 06 January 2014 - 08:43 PM.


#17
pokesmot247

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More facts:

Signs and Symptoms of Poisoning

Although no account of human poisoning was found in the literature, signs and symptoms of poisoning would be expected to be similar to nicotinic signs and symptoms, including fatigue, twitching, cramps, and muscle weakness including the muscles necessary for breathing (5).

CHRONIC TOXICITY

A 2-year feeding study in rats fed up to 1,800 ppm resulted in a No Observable Effect Level (NOEL) of 100 ppm (5.7 mg/kg body weight in males and 7.6 mg/kg in females). Adverse effects included decreased body weight gain in females at 300 ppm, and increased thyroid lesions in males at 300 ppm and females at 900 ppm. A 1-year feeding study in dogs fed up to 2,500 ppm resulted in a NOEL of 1,250 ppm (41 mg/kg). Adverse effects included increased cholesterol levels in the blood, and some stress to the liver (measured by elevated liver cytochrome p-450 levels) (6).

Reproductive Effects

A three generation reproduction study in rats fed up to 700 ppm imidacloprid resulted in a NOEL of 100 ppm (equivalent to 8 mg/kg/day) based on decreased pup body weight observed at the 250 ppm dose level (6).

Teratogenic Effects

A developmental toxicity study in rats given doses up to 100 mg/kg/day by gavage on days 6 to 16 of gestation resulted in a NOEL of 30 mg/kg/day (based on skeletal abnormalities observed at the next highest dose tested of 100 mg/kg/day) (4). In a developmental toxicity study with rabbits given doses of imidacloprid by gavage during days 6 through 19 of gestation, resulted in a NOEL of 24 mg/kg/day based on decreased body weight and skeletal abnormalities observed at 72 mg/kg/day (highest dose tested) (6).

Mutagenic Effects

Imidacloprid may be weakly mutagenic. In a battery of 23 laboratory mutagenicity assays, imidacloprid tested negative for mutagenic effects in all but two of the assays. It did test positive for causing changes in chromosomes in human lymphocytes, as well as testing positive for genotoxicity in Chinese hamster ovary cells (6).

Carcinogenic Effects

Imidacloprid is considered to be of minimal carcinogenic risk, and is thus categorized by EPA as a "Group E" carcinogen (evidence of noncarcinogenicity for humans). There were no carcinogenic effects in a 2-year carcinogenicity study in rats fed up to 1,800 ppm imidacloprid (2).

Organ Toxicity

In short-term feeding studies in rats, there were thyroid lesions associated with very high doses of imidacloprid (6).

Fate in Humans and Animals

Imidacloprid is quickly and almost completely absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract, and eliminated via urine and feces (70-80% and 20-30%, respectively, of the 96% of the parent compound administered within 48 hours). The most important metabolic steps include the degradation to 6-chloronicotinic acid, a compound that acts on the nervous system as described above. This compound may be conjugated with glycine and eliminated, or reduced to guanidine (3).

Source: http://pmep.cce.corn...loprid-ext.html

Edited by pokesmot247, 06 January 2014 - 08:49 PM.


#18
Sam Handwich

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i wish you would have posted a picture earlier. those actually look more like soil mites than root aphids. well, the root aphids i had at least.

 

 

than again, i live on a different side of the US than you. being in central california, wine country, you probably have alot of those fuckers that are resiliant to pesticides. my condolences.

 

 

when i had them i had to start over, like i said. since than i have added healthy doses of neem & karanja cake to my soil mix before transplanting & i havent had pest problems. i tried the neem cake during the infestation & it failed miserably. just an FYI



#19
pokesmot247

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i wish you would have posted a picture earlier. those actually look more like soil mites than root aphids. well, the root aphids i had at least.
 
 
than again, i live on a different side of the US than you. being in central california, wine country, you probably have alot of those fuckers that are resiliant to pesticides. my condolences.
 
 
when i had them i had to start over, like i said. since than i have added healthy doses of neem & karanja cake to my soil mix before transplanting & i havent had pest problems. i tried the neem cake during the infestation & it failed miserably. just an FYI

Thanks for the reply.

Im actually not 100 percent sure what they are. They could be mites or aphids. The thing that made me lean towards aphids was two "tail pipes" or what looks like exhaust pipes on the rear end of the bugs. Also, the mature adults look nearly identical to fungus gnats, only larger.

I actually started my grow with a one inch layer of neem cake as part of my soil composition. They've resisted all organic pesticides. I assume like you said that they've built some sort of immunity, due to the extreme pesticide spraying in my area.

I havent given up. Im still waiting on some pyrethrin. The DE (diatomaceous earth) seemed to eradicate a lot of the adults.

By my measuring calculation, i added 9.7 ml of bayer tree and shrub per gallon, or around 4.9ish per half gallon. I let the plants sit in this solution overnight, in the dark. After 14 or so hours i removed them, after letting the plants drain into pans to collect run off, which i tossed out. I normally recycle runoff through my tea solutions.

The plants seem to Be doing a bit better. They are perky, green, and lively. Im not sure if theyll make it. Theyre lsted, and after gong around my 5 gal pots once theyre already 3 feet tall. If they continue to comeback and thrive i will switch them to flower in 30-60 days, but i assume theyll be behemoths by then and i should have a nice flowering period so that i can harvest enough to not grow again for a couple years. Im also going to sterilize all soil in the future. I will look into an outdoor antique oven of some sort to accomplish that as im very serious about gardening.

Im not sure if youre the member formerly known as osub but i always enjoyed his input and i enjoy yours as well. Thank you for your help, i sincerely appreciate it.

Ill periodically update this thread to keep you informed on my results.

#20
pokesmot247

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Well I lost

:(


Received my order of pyrethrin a few days ago. Decided to do a soak last night. There were lots of little flyers moving about. I figured they were fungus gnats, but they turned out to be adult root aphids. I figured this out by adding potato peels to the soil. Didnt catch a single fungus gnat larvae. Nothing bit tbh.

I had just finished removing about half of what was left of the leaves when I noticed a partially submerged leaf sticking out of the soil. I grabbed the tip of it and to my surprise, it was a fully buried fan leaf. To my shock and horror it was covered in root aphids. They were completely covering the stem part of the leaf. It looked as if there were about 15 per inch and they were crawling over each other. I called my wife to come look and she made the decision. She looked at all of my plants and her face saddened.

"they look bad" she said. "I think its time to throw the towel in. Even the new leaves are screwed up."

I knew she was right. I grabbed a knife and cut them down. I turned the soil over in the field, cutting the roots into pieces then doused the whole grow with that nasty tree and shrub, as I said I would. There wasn't much left of the vegetative growth. The stem was almost two inches around. It looked like a baseball bat. The roots looked healthy too.

I flicked the switch and my heart sank as my grow room darkened.....

Defeat is an aweful feeling.

:(



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