Silica questions...Rhino Skin, Dutch Master, or Pro-Tekt???

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by djay53, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. I have a few questions and have recently been given conflicting information from reps. from both Dutch Master and Advance Nutrients (surprise, surprise I know).  
     
    Backstory:
    I have been using Pro-Tekt due to the concentration of Silica in it.  Its concentration is 7.8% silicon.  The Dutch master rep came in the other day and said their product (Dutch Master Gold Range Silica) is the best because the only type of silica a plant can absorb and use is Monosilicic Acid.  Their product contain 5% Monosilicic Acid derived from Potassium Silicate.  I very briefly looked into it (a couple google searches) and it appeared to be true, at least on the surface.  Just yesterday the Advanced Nutrients rep. came in and was talking about Rhino Skin, saying how theirs is the best because plants can only use 1% silica, which theirs contains, as usually their bottles are horribly labeled so I'm not exactly sure what is in it.  However AN's European website says its silicon, but that says the NPK is 0-0-13, the bottle i'm holding in front of me says 0-0-.4, talk about misleading information.  The AN rep. also said their product is pH stable, the Europe site says it has major pH up characteristics (similar to just about all silica products from my experience). The retail prices are as follows; ProTekt $17.00, Gold Range Silica $25.95, Rhino Skin $34.60.
     
    My questions are these:
    1) is any of this information true, or horribly false?
    2) What silica Product are you using, and why?
    3) Can you please help me sort this information out and figure out which silica is best, obviously I want to use the best of the best.
    4) Any other information that you could give me on this topic would be phenomenal! 
     
    Thank a ton for your time!

     

    Attached Files:

    • mail.jpg
      mail.jpg
      File size:
      10.5 KB
      Views:
      247
  2. really??? nobody has anything for me? these forums over here certainly are quiet.
     
  3. I've used only pro tekt.  IDK about the other two, but remember part of what you pay for the AN, and DM stuff is going to pay the gentlemen you spoke to and their high profile adverts.  But I've never used anything from them.  
     
    BTW if you can't get a straight answer from AN on what's in the bottle, personally I'd pass.
     
  4.  
     
    i emailed AN asking for specific things in bottle and he gave me all ingrediants plus a link to find on my own :p
     
  5. so for 35 dollars you need to do your own investigation into what's in the bottle?  
     
  6. Protekt has always made a noticeable difference for me and I like using it with their neem oil as a foliar. Try each out on seperate clones and let us know how about?
     
  7. It's so hard me to do comparisons, actually impossible.  I only grow one out at a time.  I've had really good success with advanced, what ive used of it.  All companies have sales reps, and other staff that they pay, AN is a bit of a dog and pony show in my opinion, and over priced for mysterious products.  If this weren't for the DM rep telling me what he did about Monosilicic Acid I dont think I'd be nearly as inquisitive.  I have used rhino skin in the past as well as pro-tekt, both are good products imo.  I was really curious if anyone had any technical info about silica, or if anyone has done side by side comparisons of these products.  what matters most in a silica supplement...Concentration, the type of silica it is, can the concentration actually be to high for a plant?  thanks for the feedback guy!
     
     
     
     
    I have never tried using silica as a foliar, I have read many things saying that foliar feeding silica provides no benefit to the plant.  truth? i have no idea, just giving you what i've heard.
     
  8. most silica supplements suggest that if not using in your res, then foliar feeding is acceptable. plus it cuts neem oil well, as well as dish soap in my opinion with the added benefit of silica, and not making your plant smell like **original lemon** or **ocean fresh mist**. I'd have to do a comparative test to see if the silica works in foliar. I just find it hard to rationalize 35 bucks for a litre of silica supplement, because most supplements will make a noticeable difference. Not so sure AN's 'specially formulated silicon' would boost it by THAT much more than a competitor's product.
     
  9. Protekt all the way. Foliar weekly.
     
  10. Interesting to see that about foliar feeding silica, that's one bad thing about forums though. Very hard to decipher fact from fiction on the forums. I got the 2l's of rhino skin for free. there are 2 coupons in the current Rosebud magazine for free Ls of rhino skin, $7 for the mag and you get $70 worth of product. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't even consider rhino skin. Right now I'm considering alternating btwn the three because silica adds weight to the final product the concentration may benefit that more. and as much as I hate to say this, I've had really good luck with AN products. And I have used rhino skin in the past when I got a sample of it and that crop turned out very nice. Just like I tell my customers, if it didn't work these companies wouldn't waste the money to put the product on the market. It is produced because it works.
     
  11. #11 mosesnumb, Oct 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2013
    [quote name="djay53" post="18818665" timestamp="1381591877"]Just like I tell my customers, if it didn't work these companies wouldn't waste the money to put the product on the market. It is produced because it works.[/quote]They waste the money because there are tons of unknowing people waiting to spend there money on the next big thing. I'm organic, and protekt is the only bottle I use. I find that it makes my leaves and stems that much more pliable and flexible. Leaves look lush and green and I don't know that I could break a stem if I tried. They just bend.
     
  12. Companies put stuff on the market because unknowing growers insist on having it....they supply a demand.

    Now silica has its benefits, so it doesn't *quite* meet the criteria.... but make no mistake, their main motivation is PROFIT. In some cases theyngive you what you need, albeit in a watered down overpriced bottle with a fancy label, catchy name and jacked up price.
     
  13. Hey moses... myself along with the rest of the group, although not organic, run nutes from a plain old ordinary non-canna company that has been supplying ordinary growers for years. Many of those here would never guess by the product that it was done with "generic" food.

    It really is a shame so many are fooled into emptying their pockets to grow a weed.
     
  14. #14 Aizura, Nov 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2013
     
    1% of what? So basically he probably means you can't give plants more because the plant wouldnt use it anyways? Then i'll just use a lower dose of a more concentrated product, instead of the watered down overpriced version of AN. Shows how dumb the AN rep truly is
     
    Probably they aren't dumb, but they sure as hell try to convince dumb people that their product is best by using dumb arguments. Sad thing is that it does seem to work though.
     
    I'm using Potsil BTW. Simply because it's the most concentrated (34% K2SiO3). Potassium silicate remains potassium silicate, even all the AN marketing bullshit doesn't change that.
     
  15. I completely agree with everyone that AN is all marketing. However I've used some of their products and have had great success with them. When ppl walk in the store and ask which line they should use I tell them about what we carry then when I get to AN I tell them it's a good product, however very expensive. I don't care for AN too much but there is a few products of theirs that I really do like. Super bud blaster for example.


    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  16. Botanicare silica blast is good as well...and they have a trial program in the US...pay for shipping ( about $16 ) and they will send you 4 trial size samples ( some combos like pure blend pro grow and bloom are counted as one item so you get more than 4 in total )
     
  17. i dont know why you guys are so surprised about hidden ingredients in nutes, have you ever looked what kind of preservatives are in your food? you're being little bitches about your flowers
     
  18. #19 aj69420g, Dec 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2013
    Im not an expert in silicates, but i bought a cheapo 12$ bottle of Pro-Silicate by Grotek. NPK is 0-0-3 guaranteed 3% k2o Soluble potash and added 3.9% Silicon from potassium silicate. Every few feedings i add a few mLs per gallon while dialing down my regular nutes by that same amount of mL's to my nute solution.
     
    Idk about the reps they are just trying to get you to buy there product. One thing I can say about the plant only being able to absorb so much silicate sounds probable. Because the plant is trying to absorb many different nutrients they fight over how much of what nutrient gets up-taken. So It sounds likely but for 35$ a bottle screw that. I have found that lower NPK value nutes have worked better for me IMO. It prevents me from overloading them with nutes while allowing me to combo with boosters as needed based on visual inspections. So I would assume a lower dose Silicate would absorb better as well because there isnt as much left over un-absorbable silicate preventing actual uptake. Thats why i just bought the cheapest lowest dose silicate I could find and just add it in here and there. Like the guy above said my stems are nice and bendable, Deal with less water better, and just seem lusher after I add it in. I also never read the label on my silicate until just now.
     
    If I can offer you a piece of advice for over-all growing thinking. Dont read labels. If you do read them, do it to know what NOT to do. Labels are printed by manufacturers that wanna wow you in the hydro shop and get you to spend money and over use there product.
     
     
     
    EDIT: Oh I almost forgot, Idk about dutch master gold range silicate, but I do use dutch master gold range liquid light foliar application. NPK is  0 - 0.2 - 0.2 guaranteed analysis says
     
    Avail Phosphate 0.2%
    Soluble Potash 0.2%
    Magnesium 0.005%
               Water Soluble Magnesium 0.005%
    Sulfur 0.02% 
               Combined Sulfur 0.02%
    Iron 0.003%
               Chelated Iron 0.003%
     
    Derived from monopotassium phosphate, potassium sulfate, magnesium sulfate, and Iron EDTA. 
     
     
    It also says to use 60mL per liter for foliar applcations. I use 15-30 depending. Havent burned any plants or bleached is says to use with your lights on too. Doesnt bleach or stress if dialed down. 
     
    Its a good tool to have in your tool belt if your having pH lokcouts and are in the process of adjusting medium pH and cant give nutes, but the plants starving for a specific nutrient thats being locked out. 
     
    Mine are hungry for nutes but my pH is still imbalanced (my own fault) so while im flushing and waiting for it to balance twice or 3 times a week i apply this and the yellow leaves green back for a day or two and they actually grow while pH is locked. Its also just great to use during veg only period. especially once they are big.
     
     
    Thats my 2 cents, the liquid lights 60$ but its WELL worth it i love it.
     
  19. ProteKt
     
    NEXT!!!!! lol
     

Share This Page