Hey guys, I've been doing a lot of research on a small LED light to supplement my 220 watts of PL-L. I am looking at the various UFO lights available, and there seem to be two options for what I want. There is a 90X1W version: http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-x-1-WATT-UFO-LED-Grow-Light-High-Power-Round-Grow-Light-Red-Blue-Orange-White-/271226427929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f265ada19 And a 50W version: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Max-147W-UFO-Hydroponic-Lamp-plant-Grow-Light-Red-Blue-LED-3W-chip-/160790988174?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256fe3c58e They look fairly identical, sans the number of LEDs. I've done some research and I keep seeing things along the lines of this (quoted from) The Cannabis Grower's Guide To LED Grow Lights: 1W Versus 3W And Higher "The LED grow light industry is very competitive right now with many companies jockeying to position themselves as the industry leaders. This is good on one hand as the competition pushes the industry towards innovations and improvements which means a more solid product for end users. However, the downside here is that as some manufacturers push the technology towards future improvements, others focus on marketing hype as their foothold in the niche. One common place to see this is when talking about the wattage of individual diodes. While some companies offer an absurd 5W and 6W diodes, the real debate right now is 1W vs 3w. 1W VS 3W Diodes - Is Bigger, Better? Common sense would dictate that a 3W LED would emit more intense and brighter light than a 1W. This is correct, however, this is not the whole story as some manufacturers claim. A single 3W LED will outshine a single 1W LED but it does not do so on a 3 to 1 basis. To be more clear: a 3W LED is not 3x as bright, powerful, or intense as a 1W LED. Expanding upon this, we can reach the conclusion that three individual 1W LEDs will be brighter, more powerful, and more intense than a single 3W LED and the reason comes down to efficiency. LED Grow Light Efficiency So how can it be that a diode driven at 3W is really less than three diodes driven at 1W? It revolves around the design of LED chips and the circuitry used to power the diode. For an LED module (chip and diode) to run, it takes a certain amount of energy (overhead) to power it up. What this means is that a 1W module will not produce an entire watt of light energy due to the overhead of powering the circuitry. Similarly, a 3W module does not produce three watts of light intensity either. The amount of overhead depends on many factors - most of which are beyond the scope of this article but suffice to say that higher wattage LED modules have more overhead in order to operate. Over time, I am sure, this efficiency gap will narrow as the technology progresses but, for now efficiency drops as individual diode wattage increases. In real terms, this means that a good 90W LED grow light using all 1W LEDs actually operates on about 80-85 watts - so a 90W light, 90 individual LEDs, approximately 80-85 watt power output. That same 90W light using all 3W diodes would consume only about 50-55 watts - 90W light, 30 individual LEDs. I think we can all agree that 85W is greater than 55W, right? This trend is evident in all LED grow lights, no matter if they utilize 3W, 5W, 6W or higher. In an industry that knows the critical role that light intensity plays in getting big yields, cannabis growers may conclude that using 1W LEDs is one of the keys to success. Do 3W Diodes Have Their Place? LED grow lights using 3W diodes will look brighter to the human eye. A single 3W LED does, in fact, have more power on an individual basis than a single 1W LED and could project light a bit further from the source to and through your plants. While an LED grow light using all 1W LEDs may have less canopy penetrating power than one using only 3W LEDs, the difference is not that great. This is especially evident when you are trying to cover larger grow spaces. When covering a space of 4x8 ft for example, many growers will opt to get a couple higher powered lights - like a 350W or 500W - because that is what many LED companies offer for larger areas. The truth is that I personally -and many others - have seen better results using an equivalent number of smaller lights in the same space as opposed to larger lights (or even lights of higher diode wattage). For example, lets say you want to cover a 2x4 ft area for a moderately sized grow - I would recommend about 350W for this sized space to support mature plants up to about 4ft+ tall. Now you could go get a single 350W light and get decent results or you could get two 180W lights and get great results. The reason is that light from multiple sources will provide better light coverage for a more even grow. By combining coverage areas between multiple light sources (optical interference), you can overcome any benefit a 3W diode may provide (without paying a premium for it). Efficiency Versus PenetrationBased on current technology, the 1W diode is, by far, the most efficient use of energy. I used to think that you needed 3W chips to grow really tall plants but research and evidence have shown me that, in the appropriate set up, LED grow lights based on 1W chips can grow massive plants. an idea about how 1w and 3w diodes emit light. I use an analogy of a garden hose to illustrate light penetration. On one hand, you have a 1w diode that is more efficient than a 3w diode, yet is like using a garden hose with a kink in it - you just don't get the same amount of flow. Then you see the hose representing the 3w diode - here the hose is fully on and is able to go further than the 1w. The distance of the stream is just like the difference in penetration between 1w and 3w diodes. When talking about high-quality diodes, it is a difference of up to 4 to 1 in penetration. In other words, if an LED light using a 1w diode can penetrate 4 inches of canopy, then a 3w should be able to project at least 12 inches into the canopy. Many think that the choice to use and LED light with 1w vs 3w LEDs really comes down to the type of grow you are doing. After all, 4 inches vs 12 inches is a big deal (get your mind out of the gutter) when talking about light projection. Everyone gets so hyped up about canopy penetration when the truth is that, for most growers, it does not matter. Most closet/stealth growers keep their plants at 3 ft or less. If this describes your grow, then an LED grow light with 1W diodes can do just fine - this includes SOG and SCROG methods where there really is no canopy to worry about penetrating. Even if you are growing taller plants or want to ensure you have the most dense, sticky bud you can possibly get (even from smaller grows) you can use multiple, smaller LED grow lights that use 1W chips. If you take the time to educate yourself on other factors such as wavelengths used, grow light height, LED beam angle, and others, it is easy to have great yields with LED grow lights." All very good info, but has anybody tested these two models side by side? I am trying to determine whether or not the added wattage is worth it, considering they are the same price. If you have these lights I'd like to hear your impressions. Thanks!
I don't like any light system that doesn't list a lumen rating.. Too me it means they are hiding something.
Dayum seeing this gets meall fucked up. I have read many places that the 1w just dont produce enough light emition for quick/lush growth which is why we see mainy 3w and 5w turned down to 2-3w. I am trying to find myself the perfect 90w ufo for a tiny ass cab and it has been a learning op for sure.
Yeah, I just cross referenced the number of LEDs with the specifications of the generic Chinese 3w and 1w LEDs available on ebay. Even if they did advertise their "specs" on lumens I probably wouldn't trust them.
Im currnetly running these 130w panels from growevolution and I have got to say with a little more knowledge on leds and on growing I think I'll be able to pull very decent gpw averages. I like this post Ill sub to see other opinions. Good topic...... http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1225542-led-grow.html
Right now I'm leaning heavily toward the 1w panel for a few reasons. 1. I can keep them closer without worrying about bleaching. My cabinet is only 2x2x3 so I don't have tons of vertical space to work with. 2. Apparently a lot of people sell 45w panels, claiming they're made with higher wattage LEDs. I fully realize these aren't going to be great for flowering, but this will be used together with 220w PL-L. I just want something small and efficient with less heat.
There not hiding anything at all by not using Lumens. Lumens is a old measurement that is not applicable to LEDs Lumens is the total light produced within the range of the human visual response system. Its a measurement to tell humans how bright a light is within the range that they can see. That measurement lacks many things. Lux meters have the same fault. They tell you how much light is usable by humans not what a plant requires. -What spectrums do your plants use and how effective is distribution of that light. Today LEDs are measured using a much more accurate system called PAR.."Photosynthetically Available Radiation". PAR tells you how many photons in all the spectrum that a plant uses fall on the plant per second. LEDs are usually always measured in PAR readings.
1 watt wont grow very well but better then CFL I guess but maybe not. I have 5 watt panels and no bleaching occurs for myself. Your comment on wattage of panels...first forget anything below 130 watts. That square 45w panel is shit they been peddling that trash for years now. The issue on the wattage which is actually well known now is for a number of reasons. LED Panel makers not all but most measure total theoretical output of the panel. So they take the number of LEDs and multiply it by wattage rating. So if you had 40 LEDs 3 watts each they would sell it as a 120 watt panel. The issue is LEDs generate heat so you run them at half rated wattage to make them last. As a result if you buy a kilowatt and measure your wattage used on that panel it will say 60. Just how it is. Its not illegal since there are no regulations but that panel could theoretically pump out 120 watts. Your LEDs would last only years vice 10-15 years or more if they did that. Its a game they have to play to get rid of heat. I have a Solarstorm 800w 5 watt LED and it consumes about 690 watts. If you do the math there running at about 3/4's rated power which is awesome actually but the fucker puts out as much heat as a HID as a result. I have the same cooling rig that any HID owner has because of this. Thats why LED panels will eventually cap out. Consumers for the most part will not put a active cooling system in place...meaning AC. We all use passive..fans that push air around. You get past 5 watt LEDs and your talking about geometric heat generation that can not be sucked out fast enough with passive cooling. You would have to have it liquid or AC cooled.
learn something new everyday thanks for this. I am still confused tho cause most LED lights for sale especially egay they don't list anything other then wattage and how many leds and what colors... no Par rating, Lumen, Lux. anything. I now know that unless the LEDS are using just white chances are they won't list a lumen rating. All the leds I have list lumens right on them but they are all a variation of white. Is there a way to calculate lumen rating when taken into consideration PAR like we know a plant can use the red spectrum but on a lumen scale red is barely visible... so forexample 10 watts of red led would be equivilant to 50 watts of lumen.
No prob. Stay away from Ebay. Waaaay back when LEDs first came out they came out in Two colors...Red Blue...they were terrible. People bought them in mass they did not grow shit for a very expensive price. It felt like a rip off since by the time you discover the light did not grow anything well you could not return it. What had happened was LED makers in China seeking another revenue stream basically took LEDs that were designed for traffic stop lights and threw them in a light assembly. After the fail alot went back to the drawing boards, new companies popped up. They new what spectrum plants use and put in LEDs that most closely matched and things got better. The spectrum of LEDs in the past to include today is not perfect still but there much much closer to having all the bands of spectrum being what the plant requires. Thats why the bands of spectrum vary from maker to maker. THe problem is those shitty LEDs are still being sold on Ebay. For the LED world you go big or go home. Brand names count, and the more you pay the better it is. This is for the most part where getting something cheap is not a victory. All you will do is waste your time, and have a shitty grow. Usually for instance the maker such as California Lightworks on there website they go into detail on the spectrums and how high the par is. For LEDs you should get your head unwrapped around Lumens. They simply do not use that measurement. Its not accurate nor applicable really. You can have something with a extremely high Lumen number with zero grow ability because that light spectrum is not within the parameters of what plants use. You can look up the PAR rating of HID and its X at X inches away from your plant. Then you can look up the PAR of your LED at that same distince...your maker should give you a number. The whole reason HID, CFL all of them have a Lumen number is there all lights designed for human use for visual lighting. Lumens refers to human visual activity...higher lumens brighter light. The fact that you use them to grow anything is coincidental. You can have a 1 million Lumen light with no plant grow ability technically. We do not worry about the plant grow ability of the lights we use because we know that they can grow as they do give off spectrum that plants use. So rather then PAR in that case we use Lumens as a reference point often. http://ledgrowlightsreview.org http://californialightworks.com/info/specs-solarstorm.pdf https://growershouse.com/blog/california-light-works-solar-storm-800w-led-grow-light-par-and-footprint-review/
good stuff thanks. I am to cheap to buy a good LED setup and I use the free sun for power. I just use LED's to keep plants in VEG so they won't flower on me early so for me all I don't care if the plant grows at all under the light I just care that it gets enough light not to flower. And believe it or not just one little 10watt cfl or 6 watt led isn't enough. I plan on putting 2 4ft t8 led's in my greenhouse that holds 3 plants to do the job.
Jonny if heat and efficiency are more important than up front costs, I have seen some grow lights on the Alibaba site based on .5w yes that's 1/2 watt LEDs they are kind of pricey when measured in the $/watt, but they are suppose to be the most efficient at converting electric to light and are very cool running if you are using a small space might very well be the best solution.
This is a 1w LED MR-16. It has two red and 1 blue diode(s) in it. I have two of these & 2 6700K Cfls in my operation. My plants gravitate more to the LEDs than the CFLs that obviously have more wattage. I'm a first time farmer but an electrician for many years. After thoroughly researching the whole grow process, I am beginning to think light spectrum is more important than wattage.
Yeah Herbs1 light spectrum is more important than wattage. I also do a lot of search on this topic and after that I'm forced to think that light spectrum is more important than wattage.