Q) if a tree falls in the forest A) A tree falls in the forest. a) with nobody near to hear it b) you said the tree falls, the noise around is the constant objective part of the enviroment. If a tree falls it makes a sound. We all know that sound is predictable enough to expect the obvious. does it still make a noise? Is noise" as a label of "sound" that requires a listetener to make the claim? if not by default is sound a form of noise and vice versa?
I do believe it makes a noise. If no one was around to witness the big bang, did it really happen? If no one can see me sitting here scratching my elbow is it really happening?
Meh to be fair thats questioning reality as only a viewed aspect in which all things are simply there and not there. You could say if no one was at the big bang did it actually bang or make a noise or have a colour etc. And what makes you think no one can see you right now....?
no sound, when we say 'sound' we're not usually referring to literal sound waves, we mean the sense of hearing something. the sound waves themselves could be interpreted in many different ways. for example you could see the sound (as I'm sure some of you have experienced) would you call this sound? if you could not hear it, but were seeing the sound would it still be your everyday definition of sound? in a hypothetical situation there could be millions of different senses to perceive sound waves that would have nothing to do with hearing sounds. I'm a bit high and that was probably too much detail but yeah i think without someone perceiving the sound with a sense of hearing there is no sound as we know it
Looking back on this thread makes me chuckle. I only ever intended it to be a conversation starter but some times we have to expect the chaos !! Everyone that joined in, thanks , you made people think !!
If somebody is in the same room as me, and I leave the room, is that person still in the room I just left? Of course they are - the tree isn't any different.
Not the same. "If a rock is seen in the same room as you and everyone leaves the room can the rock still be seen?" would be the same.
The question hinges on whether or not the tree is actually there, if it is there, then it makes a sound.
There is no question the tree is there, if it wasn't there it wouldn't be able to fall. When it falls it creates pressure waves that a recipient interprets as sound. If there is no recipient the pressure waves dissipate unnoticed.
I don't get this This entire thread is literally a debate as to whether the word "sound" refers to the kinetic waves, or to the act of interpreting said waves. Either way, its not a scientific debate, its a semantics debate -yuri
It's weird to say that tree's exist when unobserved but the sound they make when falling doesn't. Why not just frame the question in a purely Idealistic way; 'Do tree's exist when they're not observed?'
the problem I always had with the idea that things don't exist unless perceived, is that there isn't just one person. Furthermore, its clear that things can happen without being observed. For example, would anyone really say the comet that killed the dinosaurs appeared when the first dinosaur saw it? No one observed said comet orbiting the sun. Events clearly happen unobserved up until the point where they are observed. Idk. Its possible that conscious is simply filling in the logical blanks, for example the comet hit the earth, it must have ccome from space. But what are the implications of such and idea and how could it be proven. Its like, why bother even entertaining the idea? -yuri
I agree with this - but what do you mean by 'filling in the logical blanks'? Explaining phenomena? EDIT; Oh right - joining A to B.
yea. All I meant by filling.in the blanks, is for example, learning that the asteroid came from space. It didn't come from space until we learned that it came from space? Yea.... -yuri
Let's make it scientific then. Put a recording device with a microphone in the woods, turn off the mike (represents you leaving), and after the tree falls play the recording. It will be quiet, the pressure waves passed unnoticed. \tDefinition of SOUND<div>1 a : a particular auditory impression : tone <div> b : the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing c : mechanical radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (as air) and is the objective cause of hearing http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sound </div></div>