Defoliation - Yes or No?

Discussion in 'Plant Training' started by Julius Caesar, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. IDK, I would like to see a side by side comparison from this guy.  Show me a plant that is not touched and show harvested end product of each.
     
    One thing I've observed from my own experience with this.  If you go too far the buds structure changes.  I've grown large outdoor plants, and defoliated half to see what happens.  What I noticed is on the defoliated half the smaller leaves that were left, grew larger to compensate for the fan leaves that were removed.  So in the end I didn't notice a great difference as far as yield, but the defoliated branches were a bitch to trim, all those little one blade bud leaves grew much larger.  Maybe I'm crazy.
     
    I did like the point made in that article that most people are over concerned with the tops.  I'm a middle of the plant kind of guy.  The tops are just for show.
     
    What's your experience with this?
     
  2. #3 Julius Caesar, Jul 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2013
    I am going to have to do a side-by-side comparison once I start another harvest from clones. The grow I am on now is from seed and the variation I am getting in identical conditions would not allow any comparison.

    He says he doesn't let any leaf live on his plant longer than 2 weeks. You would think by removing a leaf, the plant must use extra energy to replace it. However, seeing his photos of his bud growth days after defoliation makes me want to definitely give this a try.

    The only time I have done an extreme defoliation is just before harvest thinking this might force the plant to flush itself completely. Not sure if it helped or hurt, but the bud is super clean tasting with a nice soft grey ash - no black unburnt chunkies that you find in commercial weed.
     
  3. Keep in mind the pictures he shares are the plant are in flowering, I would guess week 3-4.  Lots of growth happens then defoliation or not  I really think there was a play on photos to emphasize bud growth.  There would be just as much production with the leaves if not more, except you don't see that till you harvest.  The end photo is only 8 days after the defoliating, but where are the rest of the pictures?  How did that grow finish up?  It just seems that the grow must have been spectacular for the author to post such bold statements.
     
    I'm just saying don't dive into this one, all in.  Try one plant and see what you think.  The links to ICmag at the end of that article don't exactly have a lot of proof of the huge benefits of this either.  Do a little more digging than this one link. 
     
  4. Some issues.




    He doesn't really tell you what to do....there is no remove this % @ week X, and this % @ week Y. Kinda needed yes? Or is it just pull em all week one of flower?


    Also most horticutlre books a d most recent editions of canna grow books suggest not to pull leaves off. But to cut em off leaving petiole (the stem part) intact so as to protect the stem from infefection. And to this ideas credit...ive seen rot move in from lost leaves outdoors, souring the entire plant.
     
  5. Imo

    I remove some fan leaves in veg and early flower. once you get the hang of it, there no better way to grow indoors under light, you need to have an even canopy, space between every node for good bud growth and air flow, and remove all lower growth (lol pop)

    I have started a scrog on here, with the right trainning in veg room I can fill a screen in less than a week and only use the flower room a week before turning over to flower.

    I call it a scrog but the screen just holds the nodes/buds in place
    but I can still pull the same yield and in mid flower you could not tell the diffence. All I can show you this in my current grow and have been doing the same training on my plants for many years :)

    If anyone would like to try this, I will do my best to help, Just drop me a pm
     
  6. This is interesting! Next chance I get im trying it soon :p
     
  7. Ford/Chevy.
     
    I get great yields whether I defoliate or not.  Many people will argue not to defoliate, because fan leaves are like batteries, storing energy that the plant will use at night.   While this is true, My belief is that this is necessary in nature when plants are competing for survival.   In a controlled grow, the caretakers ensure each plant has an abundance of light.  Nobody has to compete for it. 
     
    Trimming defoliated plants is a dream! 
     
    Cheers,
    Past
     
  8. There exists a tricky balance.

    Leafs produce the sugars - we want em.

    However, Bud sites only mature to the size and density we want when exposed to direct, non-shaded, sunlight.

    Defoliation seems to increase yields because it causes the plant to 'puff' up buds to compensate for the loss of its leaves; the buds themselves grow bigger leaves to photosynthesize. However, if the plant has been grown right, the defoliation also allows for more buds to mature inside crown under the main canopy - thus an increased yield.

    But, too many leaves cut off limit the potential of the buds - the upper canopy would arguably get bigger if you kept all leaves on.

    So you need to find the balance between upper and lower buds and exposure to light to get the best yield; some defoliation may be needed depending on the size of the plant and how its been grown.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Quote: 
    If you've never defoliated before, go conservative to start, even if your plants look healthy.
    Do it moderately at first and a little more daily. Pluck fan leaves to prevent branches from growing taller. During the flowering stage, you'll be able to see the increase in bud production.
     
  10. I would advise anyone defoliating, to start with your clone.  Once it's established, start pruning/training from day 1.
     
  11. I would say yes on defoliation/bonsai.:rolleyes:
    Just before 12/12 flip: 1373333180384.jpg
    Day 22 of flowering:
    1373333318420.jpg

    Take a peak http://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/1221460-Cfl-Box-Grow,-Round-#2#entry18148508


     
  12. I harvested all of my Skunk #1 after day #77 of 12/12 and found some nasty ass Botrytis or some other type of mold in one of my colas. It was in the densest plant and luckily only in one small area. Probably just started in the last few days. I cut all that nasty shit out and only lost maybe 5 grams - so I caught a break. I have inspected all the others and haven't found anything else nasty yet. The humidity has been between 40% to 50% so I was surprised to find any. I believe I know what caused the mold - pulling a few fan leaves from that spot and the wound weeped and molded. I'll never do that again. The density of the bud itself and the extended flowering time also contributed. I am so glad I decided to trim wet or else I would not have found it and would have probably lost the entire cola.
     
     
    Moral of the story - I am done with defoliation, at least during the flowering phase.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. #14 joe 60, Jul 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2013
     
    why have the plants been in flower for 77 days ? this is far too long
    skunk 1 takes from 45-65 days in flower
     
    and if you remove fan leaves after watering the plants, they will weep and can cause mold in late flower
     
  14. #15 patriofarmer, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
     
    You called it.  Experience is everything.
     
    Just remember the basics of growing what they are because of nature's rules not because people are narrow minded.  If someone says they have a revolutionary can't miss new method, stop reading right there.  They either don't know any better, or are trying to sell you something or both.  Aren't you glad you only tried it on one plant?
     
    The title of the thread is misleading btw.  Defoliation yes or no?  Yes in moderation if necessary, no as the link suggested.
     
  15. Because they never turned amber. Too many issues to rehash - I made the best of the situation. That is what we do.
     
  16. Wow, awesome that you caught your mold issue. Mine hasnt had any major defoliation since flowering. A snip or two off some blade tips for lower light, but ni whole fans. Also, when defoliating, no fans were snipped completely. The largest blade was left. Never a whole stem anywhere near the bud sites. Always when soil is dry, but not dried out. I know they "bleed", thats why i take care when defoliating. But you know, it mainly comes down to each his own. You stick with what works for you, i stick with what works for you. I would never push my way and my way only onto any one. I just give examples for others to get an idea.
    ;)



     

  17. EDIT EDIT EDIT;
    You stick with what works for you, I stick with what works for me.





     
  18. #19 CL4P-TP, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2013
    never grown skunk #1 huh ?
     
    shes a sativa, leaning closer to a 10-11 week flower time.
     
    now super skunk ..thats in the 7-8 week flower range.
     
    dont give a rats ass what Sensi seeds ( the original"ish" breeder) page says..I've grown both extensively, and thats been my experience.
     
  19. feminised skunk 1 (sensi seeds)
    Easy to grow, small plants, not very strong but you can get some very fruity buds
    I grow 20 plants to find a good phone a few years back

    for a skunk strain the buds where very dank on most the plants but small
    My took from 50-60 days to flower

    can only tell how my plants turned out after growing from seeds
    and kept the best plants going for 3 more crops
     

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