From what I've briefly researched in the past a vermicompost is the best choice to make when making a compost tea for nutrient and biological activity. If you are using DWC and want to go "all organic" with tea as your base feeding program use vermicompost and NOT other forms of compost. That said... The old addage "we are what we eat" applies to worms as well. What they eat and digest becomes the base for your nutrient and biological profile. So, if you are undertaking vermicompost as a hobby ensure when you feed your worms you are supplying the highest nutrient profile of the minerals you most want in your vermicompost bin. For example you would want to include vegetable scraps that are high in potassium, calcium, phosphorous, etc. These mineral stores in vegetables are highly documented and very consistent when grown across a variety of planting mediums and fertlization methods. Cucumber ash, for example, contains the highest percentage of potassium over any other vegetable whether it be an above ground vegetable or a below ground tuber. The short answer is use VERMIcompost if your plan it to use organic tea only and supplement as needed. Otherwise, short of "deficiencies" (I always included that word in quotes) using an organic tea for DWC ought to work for you. If this is the approach you are going to take then you absolutely must use the highest quality VERMIcompost you can source or make yourself. For me personally I much prefer the latter approach because the quality control is wrapped up tight within your own domain. Good luck and keep us posted. I don't think you're alone in the desire of your pursuits . Simpla is mo betta
Yes wht he said^ You do what you want, I've made compost tea and it can be messy so I'd rather keep it simple stoner and pour some Iguana Juice or Mother Earth Super Tea from a jug instead of worrying about having the right mix for my tea. The thing with making your own tea is that you need to know what to mix in for different stages of growth or bloom, I don't think straight wormcastings will make it to harvest in an organic-hydro set up. I was just using backyard compost made with cow manure, grass, leaves, and other dried plant matter. I suggest getting some Iguana Juice and/or Mother Earth Super Tea to use on a section of your garden and then experiment with your own home made brew with the other half, that way if something shits out in the home made tea you know the Advanced Nutes will save the other half.
Well it will be next grow still need net pots and hydroton. Thank you possum. Yoda is helping me out along with numerous other people just haven't decided on a couple tea recipe
I'll do some searching around and link it up here in an edit. (It'll be good for me as well, I'm interested in the same topic) I remember something about Manure,Guano (type depends on stage of growth), worm castings, kelp (not sure if it was kelp meal or liquid kelp), a few other things for micro-nutrients, and molasses and/or honey (molasses for bacteria rich tea and honey for mycorrhizal fungi rich tea) To make the tea you put the mix in a clean sock or something similar and tie up the top to hang in the water (chlorine free) and molasses/honey solution. Then either use a good sized pump and some stoner ingenuity to rig up a system that shoots jet like streams of water back into the bucket or tub thus aerating the tea very well and keeping it mixed up; OR use air stones and an air pump which is not as efficient at putting oxygen in the water. The oxygen, sugar, and food source (the mix) feed the beneficial microbes that can be added (General Hydro has a cheaper blend) or the ones naturally found in the manure and compost, ideally the manure being composted prior to mixing or else its manure tea or something (I may be wrong). I'll be back with some links. Edit: Links... Different discussions on the subject, I will scan them over for relevance but I may not have read some of these top to bottom or front to back. Organic compost tea in Hydroponics/dwc - help - Cannabis Culture Forums Compost Tea Time Trade Secret: Compost Tea Recipe Organic Hydroponics Nutrient Formulas and other info. Making Compost Tea | FREE Advice From Compost Junkies [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMaAJ3nHPLs[/ame] Further thoughts: From what I gather if you want to use a compost tea as a base nutrient for an organic-hydroponic setup I would follow the steps and chosen recipe with a few exception... 0) Use Lava Rocks, Not hydroton. 1) I would extend the brewing time from 3 days to 1-2 weeks and (1a) periodically add molasses/honey to keep the microbes alive (1b) double the amount of solids used in the mix (1c)periodically squeeze the tea bag to help extract the nutients The idea behind the concept is to allow a herd of microbes break down the solid matter into liquid excretions that the roots can absorb, this may take an extra 4 to 11 days to happen. In contrast, when making compost tea for soil the goal is simply to get a herd of microbes to add to the soil and allow them to feed there, where as in hydroponics there will be little food source for the microbes so the excretions must already be present for uptake by the roots. 2) Periodically add molasses and/or honey to the rezivour to keep the microbes alive during feeding (when the solution is in contact with the plant's roots; in the system) (2a) Keep a tea bag in the system's rezivour during feeding for a food source (2b) Have a layer of lava rocks on the bottom of the rezivour and air stones buried in the layer (this will be another place for microbes to thrive when the water in the rez is not circulating through the system). (2c) Change the rez every 7-10 days flush with plain water real quick for a bit of cleaning and replace with the brew that should have been started during the previous rez change (7-10 days prior) 3) I would use additives like fish emulsions (not the flowering blend it has chems), liquid kelp, liquid worm casting, liquid guano, anything approved organic with no salts (common sense helps when choosing here) (3a) A product of your choice containing enzymes is a must to break down dead organic matter. (3b) Use Alfalfa pellets or meal in your mix ( like a table spoon or two, not sure on amounts I just know its a main ingredient in Advanced Nutrients Nirvana) "When you look at what Nirvana has In it, and how these organics work for you, that's why Nirvana is the number one choice of growers seeking an organic way to maximize yield and quality. There's a superstar list of ingredients on board for you, including alfalfa extract that enhances growth and yield in your hydroponics plants because it contains triacontanol, a powerful molecule that increases your plants' absorption of C02. Alfalfa is particularly important if you've invested money in C02 for your grow room; it gives you more rapid intake of C02, more vigorous growth, and maximum yields." Advanced Nutrients Nirvana
Bump, bump bump, its the sound of the fifties when they hidden in my trunk bump, bump bump, its the Kottonmouth Kings and we don't give a fuck!
Please read the ACT sticky. What you have posted is misinformed at best. Folks don't let this forum slip into stonerdom.
Basically what the OP wanted was some discussion on how to go organic in a deep water culture system without using bottled nutrients. So with out a simple source for NPK and micros one is left up to ingenuity or some process or technique I have yet to hear of. I believe I understand what ACT is and why its used. Could you please point out where I went wrong and why? And just a reminder our goal is to extract the nutrients from natural products like compost and guano or alfalfa which is supposed to be rich in N, the idea I am proposing is to use the bacteria to breakdown(excrete; crap out) the organic matter and release a nutrient that could be absorbed by the plant. I would assume this takes time. I suppose another route would be chemical extraction, yes even if your solvent is H2O. I have seen folks blend up a bunch of produce and specific herb's leaves to make a thick smoothy that they diluted and watered half their garden with. We are not trying to brew a colony of microbes just for the microbes, we want the nutrients they leave behind. It is my understanding that these microbes in ACT are used to breakdown and process the soil for the plants, am I wrong? In this DWC method I was discussing keeping the soil in a tea bag in the rez, the water is then the carrier of nutrients to the roots. I guess it would be a RDWC system. I think this is what Advanced Nutrients was after when making Mother Earth's Super Tea.
A properly made tea with nothing but mollasses and quality compost/vericompost carries a complete nutrient profile as well as a strong hicroherd. It is also alive which means it will kick the shit out of AN. bullshit products
This video sucks. There is no way that tea that he making is any good. His pump is waayyy to small for that container. His pump might be sufficient for a 1 gallon milk jug. There are some decent tips in your post but I do see some fallacies, like the long brew time for one and some of those ingredients can, even though organic and are normally wonderful, can slow microbe growth. Im curious about microbemans suggestions.
Right on, I do know from experience that rigging up a upside down L or a T shaped PVC pipe and drilling small holes that would shoot water back down at the tea oxygenates the water very very well. I would consistently have foam spilling out of my bucket, it was madd. From what I understand the foam is created from the microbes excretions. Those excretions is what WE here are after, not so much the microbes. What I am suggesting is to try and use the microbials to extract the nutrients for us and be the factory that converts them into an uptakable form by the plants. This is what is done in soil, this is what I am suggesting may happen in a compost tea if enough nutrients are present to convert and the microbes stay alive long enough to break as much down as possible. That is my logic with the extended brew time. It is my belief that in 48 hours the microbes may be there and active but they have yet to release enough nutients to sustain plant life (in other words, 48 hours isn't enough time for them to eat enough food to shit out enough nutrients in the water.) I wanna make sure everyone is on the same page here. This is about making an organic nutrient solution that can sustain plant life through harvest without voodoo juice or Mother Earths Super Tea.
First off, I just skimmed through the video; 1/ not enough air 2/ too much compost 3/ mesh bags/pantyhose too fine for extraction of microbes 4/ air input required in mesh extractor 5/ humic acid suppresses microbial division in a liquid 6/ filtered water not necessary - just dechlorinate. Other comments are below in your quote in CAPS Some points you have made are not that bad. If you use liquid fish make sure it is hydrolysatate, not emulsion. Really do read the ACT Sticky at the beginning.
Spliffy puffs; I do like that your mind is open. But please please read the sticky to straighten out a few misconceptions
Microbeman "1/ to provide a quick nutrient kick to the rhyzosphere. This works mainly because as the flagellates (protozoa) consume the *bacteria/archaea they utilize only 30 to 40% of the energy intake for their sustenance and the remaining 60 to 70% is expelled as ionic form nutrient which is directly bio-available to the roots of the plants. This is known as ‘the microbial nutrient loop (cycle)'. 2/ to begin or continue an inoculation of the soil with a microbial population. Many of these microorganisms will go dormant until called upon later to fulfill their purpose but many of them will grow and flourish, finding their station in the hierarchical positioning of microbes in a living soil. Some, like the fungi will grow out through the soil binding aggregates together, assisting with air and moisture retention, providing pathways for bacteria/archaea, providing a food source for various microorganisms and degrading organic matter to a point where it is available for other organisms. Within a very diverse ACT there will be free living nitrogen fixers, anti-pathogens and yes a few of the anaerobic and facultative anaerobes which serve their positive role in a living soil." Microbeman "YOU ARE NOT EXTRACTING NUTRIENTS. READ THE ACT STICKY FROM THE BEGINNING." I have read the sticky along with many others by different sources. 1) Extracting and converting nutrients from "organic matter to a point where it is available for other organisms" is exactly whats happening, it is my understanding that the new form is now available to plants. Plants can't eat dirt, they absorb the "piss" that microbes release, to put it simply. 2) I admit the video wasn't great, I was in a hurry to get relevant information and get a discussion started, while in a pinch an air stone will do ok for small batches, I would never attempt such a large brew on an air stone. 3) A sock has always worked for me, yeah I would fondle it every 4 hours or so and i would leave the "tea bag" half way hanging in the water. I understand how having a really thick sock would have a negative effect. 4) Microbeman "IF I WERE TO ATTEMPT USING ACT FOR HYDROPONICS AGAIN, I WOULD ATTEMPT RUNNING A PERPETUAL BREW AND THAT WOULD BE MY RESEVOIR. A MICROSCOPE AND O2 METER WOULD BE ESSENTIAL (OR LUCK)" This is what I was talking about, also a way to analyse the nutrients present and available to the plants! Ultimately if all nutrients were present and available, microbes may not be necessary to process food, but defensively will always be invaluable in the fight against pathogens. Edit: I recall some information (can't recall the source) about h2o2 breaking down organic matter and making it available to plants. While I am not completely opposed to chemicals being used to process organics, common sense is needed when how harmful a solvent it before its use. I am not much more then an Acid head who taught himself chemistry just for the sake of making acid, so with that being said, I do find validity to Advanced Nutrients claims that some processes used to make commercial organic nutrients do destroy some of the basic essential building blocks of life, a chemically processed organic nutrient would have to be the last possible option.
If you wanted nutrients in a plant-usable (and liquid) form, couldn't you just run DWC with diluted FPEs? I have never tried organic DWC, so I have no idea. Just thinking out loud I suppose.
Well a sock works for me daurn it...so Ima gonna tell everybody its the thing to do and even though its microbes being extracted Ima gonna tell everyone its nutrients and I know the exudates are piss because I saw one doing it. Supportive data? It is difficult to make harmful compost tea but it is easy to make optimal compost tea. see you guys in a couple months.
Im not saying its the thing to do, I am merely highlighting how almost anything, even the most unexpected things can work and get the job done. I understand that when you are using compost tea for organic soil grows that it is the microbes you are after and I understand why. That why is the final product before being absorbed by the roots and is what I am after to utilize in a dwc. The microbes are consuming, converting, and releasing nutrients for the plants, this is the process I am calling "extracting" like miners extract gold from a mine. Supportive data? Do I need to quote you again, can I see pics of your microbe slides magnified under a microscope? Its a function of life almost everywhere "Absorb and Excrete, Absorb and Excrete" drinks some beer and take a long piss, this will make sense to you. Morningview86: What are FPE's?
Fermented Plant Extracts. I can't link it (using my phone), but check out the "Botanicals" thread. People sometimes confuse the effects of an ACT for those of a botanical tea/FPE, which I thought you may have done. But after reading a little more, it seems like the idea you're after is a little of both combined. edit: Like I said, sometimes both terms get mixed up and some people use them interchangeably. What you're talking about may be feasible, again I have no clue. It just irks me that so many people around here will tell someone "you need to re-read about what an ACT actually is" and stuff like that, yet they always fail to mention botanical teas and FPEs (and the confusion between the two), even though we have a 100+ page thread about them.