Hi guys! I want to get started growing but, as the title suggests, I'm totally new to this and need some help. I've been reading through a lot of the stickies, I've downloaded the Growing Basics PDF and I bought this book but there's just so much information and so many different approaches that I'm having trouble getting out of the planning phase. I'm a tactile learner (and I'm high a lot) so it's hard for me to wrap my head around something I have no experience with (I've never grown any kind of plant at all) just from reading about it. I've been collecting bag seeds for a while and keeping them in a ziplock bag in my refrigerator. Here's a pic: The small pile is Jack Herer. The larger pile is probably mostly Jack Herer but has some other things of less certain origins mixed in with it. The Room My goal is to grow my own supply, for personal use only, so I only need enough plants for an oz or so per month. I have it in my head that four to eight plants will be enough but I'm really not sure. How much space do I need to be comfortable in a grow this size? I have an 8-10' crawl space under my house where I plan to do the growing and this space is well ventilated but not temperature controlled. I've read that 75-80F is the optimal temperature range but how far outside this range is okay? I wouldn't expect the crawl space to get much above that during the summer (although we haven't spent a summer here yet so I could be wrong) but during winter months I would think it could easily drop into the 40s under there. It's currently 48F outside and the temperature in my crawl space is 58F. I'm sure I can expect some additional heat from my lights but how much will depend on what kind of lights I use, how many I have and whether or not I enclose the space. I doubt if the humidity will get too high under there if I don't enclose the space but can it get too low? The Lights The lighting situation is probably what I'm most uncertain about. It seems like everyone does it differently. Apparently marijuana needs two different spectrums for vegetation and flowering. What kind of time frames are we talking about for the two cycles? I've read about changing out lights at a certain time but is it possible to have a single setup for both? LEDs are the most expensive but I would assume they eventually pay for themselves in utility savings. I've thus far been unable to find information on how long it would be before that happens though. I'm really not sure how to compare the three types of lights either. Everyone seems to talk about them in wattages, and I've read that 50-100W per plant is a rule of thumb, but lumens per watt changes with different types of lights. I've read that smaller CFLs are more efficient than larger ones and that larger HIDs are more efficient than smaller ones but how do they compare to LEDs? I would expect a 100W LED to put out more light than a 100W CFL and both would produce more than a 100W HID. I've been looking at this light but I can find no mention of light output anywhere. How many plants could I grow under this light? Based on the rule of thumb I mentioned earlier I would expect three plants would be the most I would want to grow under this but I'm really not sure that rule applies here because it's an LED light. Also, the description leads me to believe, but doesn't actually say, that this one light could be used for both vegetative and flowering states but I'm not sure that's right. CFLs are a lot cheaper so I'd like to find out how much advantage there really is to using LEDs. If the primary benefit is lower heat output then it's probably not worth it to me. I'm not going to spend $300 on a light unless I only have to buy one for my whole operation. If I don't go with an LED light, how should I make the decision between CFLs and HIDs? I've read that HIDs penetrate the canopy better, which I assume is important or people wouldn't be talking about it, but some people have said that strategically placed CFLs do the same job. CFLs are obviously cheaper and cooler so I would lean toward them on that basis but I want to make sure I do what's best for my plants first and foremost. Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
How much vertical height do you have? What kind of medium do you want to use? Soil, hydro, etc.. Will it have to be stealth? How hot does your town get in the summer? And to answer some stuff. Not enclosing the space means a lot of light wasted, most likely want to go with a tent down there. And crawl spaces do tend to get humid so you would need to watch that, bud rot is NASTY. I don't know anything about led so I can't really help you there. As for CFL vs. HPS, well this debate still goes on, but I think that everyone agrees if you have the space and a way to control the heat, hps will 100 percent yield a lot more than cfl, no doubt about it. Cfl is more for micro style growing. And with HPS vs. LED I'm not sure, but what I do know is that for the same price as that led light you linked, you can get at the very least a 600 watt hps, maybe a 1000 on craigslist. Hope I helped a bit
Thanks for the response! I have 8-10' or so of vertical height and more than 500 sqft I would guess. It's unfinished right now but could easily be made into a full size basement. There's a steady flow of air from a dozen or so foundation vents as well. I just checked and the current humidity is 49%. Is that okay? I live out in the country and don't really need it to be super stealthy but would like to at least be inconspicuous. I'm not concerned about the smell either. I want to go hydro but I hear it's a little harder than soil. Our hottest summer days get up in high 90s. It's sounding more and more like HPS is the way to go. I just read that they can be used for flower and veg, so that's a plus. A couple people have talked about induction lights but I'm not sure about those. So what if, instead of actually building walls, I just hung some mylar sheets up to reflect the light? I'm going to put it in a corner so I do have two walls already. I could put mylar up on those, some on the ceiling, and then hang two sheets up in place of the two missing walls. Would that work? Thanks again!
That should be no problem, but above that could get you into some trouble so I would definitely watch that during the summer. Heat + humidity equals nasty bud rot, I have been through it on my first grow and it sucks. I also live in a very humid part of the country so not sure how dry your summer is. 90s is pretty normal, but 90s in florida is a lot different than 90s in arizona so really you just need to watch stuff like this, some things just can't be prevented for most of us. HPS is definitely the way to go for you, it is easier and cheaper to start up, and your right, certain models have switchable ballasts with mh/hps options. I have also seen a whole grow under hps but mh gets more vigorous vegetative growth. Most reflectors come with a cool tube to control the heat so you will need a fan, maybe two. Hanging the sheets would definitely work, anything really to enclose the space is better than it just being open. You might want to make a frame but that's up to you really everyone has their own way they like once you start up. Now that you got all that all you have to do is grow the plant lol, not always as easy as it seems. Your soil/nutrients will be the most important part of your grow imo, it is the easiest thing to screw up. So make sure you research whatever type of medium your gonna use and how your going to feed them. All the fancy lights and tents in the world won't help a plant not getting what it needs. Glad I could help keep a smokin' brotha.
Thanks for the advice! I think I'll go with the HPS light and I'll probably go ahead and enclose the space as well. I can put a small heater down there in the winter if I need to and, since cool air sinks, I can cool it with air from the house in the summer which will probably help with the humidity. I'm thinking I'll force air into it and allow it to vent rather than trying to suck air out as well. Do you think I could grow eight plants under a 600W HPS or do I need to step up to a 1000W? A 1000W would cost me right about $50/mo in electricity when it's running 18/6 but that's not too bad. I'm not sure how many BTUs it'll put it out. I can only keep one step in my head at a time so I'm going to get started on this room real soon and then start researching ferts and nutes and things. I have the feeling that will be as much if not more involved than light. Thanks again!
This won't work, this would create a positive pressure and cook your plants, you need an exhaust with a passive intake to get the negative pressure. If you push the heat out, cool air will automatically come into the box. You can do 8 plants under a 600, but 6 would be better.
1oz micro grow back in the day I did... Do two of these on a flipflop schedule and harvey once a month.. Problem solved.. I used a fulham ballast and 3 pll's..
I definitely would have done it wrong then. Thanks for letting me know! I was thinking about it like my HVAC system that pushes cool air into my house. Hell yeah man. That's a good idea. Looks like you got some nice results too. So I'll do six under a 600W light then and put them on alternating schedules. Is this a decent product and a decent price? Also, since I've never done this before, should I start with soil or just go straight for hydro? Thanks so much for the advice guys!
Hydro is MUCH easier than soil when you are starting out.. You need to have an understanding of cation exchange and how certain molecules are attracted to the medium.. In Hydroponics, this is not the case and couldnt be easier to feed and correct for def's... I can walk you through hydro with my eyes shut and zero ppm meters or ph meters.. I use a gh ph test kit and kill...... I weigh/measure based on ppms and nutrient profiles ive calculated prior to feeding, but I can give you an all around base formula no matter your system and GUARANTEE you will see success your first time... Its easy. Just practice and repetition...
Awesome! Once I get my room finished I'll take you up on that. Are hydro starter kits like this one a good investment? Thanks!
When you are ready, I will walk you into the light my friend... I grow in coco.. So its a little tricky with its higher cec as well, but its consistent so if you wanna grow hydro and play like dirt, coco is where its at... Holler when you are ready and Ill guide you into a philosophy of growing you didnt know existed..
[quote name='"ridge"racer']Hydro is MUCH easier than soil when you are starting out.. [/quote] lol no, its super complicated just like anything else compared to organic soil. organic soil is the definitive way to start growing. mix it once, never check pH, never (or just a few times during flowering) add fertilizer, never flush, still get better quality than anything with chemical nutrients. and if you want to do some more time-intensive stuff, you can make compost teas and shit and boost your grow with very low risk of fucking up. its awesome for securing a good harvest, reducing the bud's harmful contents and avoiding trouble.
Baumeister, I agree, mixing correct proportions of organic amendments is easier when you just add water.. But if you understand Organics, then you are further advanced in cultivation than most, because the fundamental understanding of the processes at work is not as easy as feeding hydroponics.... Easy for you, not for newbs... Hydro, mix, ph, feed.. Organic you rely on microbial, and that isnt a specific process.. Microbial are "variables" in a sense, and Ive brewed many an act brew in my day bud......
dude don't give a rats ass about the truth ..only whatever he is getting ready to schill around here. best to ignore IMO.
organics isnt as simple if you look at it in detail, but its much simpler to handle cuz all the complicated stuff is done by the microbes. people have been using nothing but organic growing techniques until the 20th century and for most of that time they didnt even know of the existence of microbes. microbes dotn give a shit whether you understand what theyre doing, if you provide a roughly adequate soil mix they will do the rest.
So... should I jump straight into hydro then or no? I want to start learning a system that will provide the best long-term results. Are these two products worth my money? Amazon.com: 600w Digital Super HPS Grow Light System with Air Cooled Tube. Best 600 watt hydroponic grow light set. 600w Dimmable Ballast, Super High Pressure Sodium, 6" Air Cooled Tube, yoyo and Timer kit.: Patio, Lawn & Garden Stealth Hydroponics, Inc - $4.99 Shipping! - Hydroponics Systems and Supplies, plant lighting, Aeroponics, grow room, hydroponics shops, grow tent, hydroponics kit, grow kits, buddinghouse > Bubbleponics® 6 Planter Starter Kit Here's a pic of the space I'm going to use. I'm thinking I'll pour an 8'x8' concrete pad in the corner. Does that seem like enough space? Thanks guys!
Plenty... are you doing vertical lighting? I would hang the bulbs vert with tress in a xoxox pattern.... Honestly, Coco with GH nutes and a little mag sulfate and you cant lose...
I'm hoping to only use one light, the one that I posted a link to up there and was asking if it was worth buying, that I'll hang from the ceiling. Is vertical better even with a single light? It seems like I'd need at least two lights in vert to spread the light evenly. That or put my light in the center of the plants. But I really don't know. Thoughts, anyone?
to get better light coverage with multiple lights on most plant arrangements. if you got one light and plants on a plane below it, the plants right below the light will always be closer to it than those on the outside.