24 - 25 days from breaking soil - Overall good things but a few 'weird' things. First the good - nodes are looking super close, healthy growth coming from them. Nice 'herb' smell coming from it as well, never had that this early in the game before. First set of serrated starter leaves are turning dark and dying, looks like some great upward growth here soon!! Slow start - darn well a month and if its 5 inches tall it'd be a stretch. Fingers crossed that LST after 5th node pays off! So much for a 60 day start to finish haha! Since transplant, it has definitely grown but as I eluded to earlier - 'weird'. I am used to 2 by 2 by 2 by 2 as it grows up until topping and then outward from there. 4th node ( closest up from top growth ) is growing what appears to be 2 leaves from a single spur. Under growth is healthy, color is normal and 5th node which is starting to sprout is 2 by 2... nothing or something? Second thing, 4th set again, one leaf has what looks like a burn, and on the 3rd set one side of another leaf has the same, but lesser, type 'burn'. New growth is fine and they are closer to the light - temps are in the mid 70's so I don't think I burned it, but maybe a reflection spot? Another case of 'over thinking it'? haha None the less - onto pictures!
you're basically on the same track, and time schedual as me, looks like you started a few days before i did. right now you're using the same light i used too, its definitely giving you better results, i think mine is getting old and might need replacing soon...
Thats one of my tests right now. The 'rule of thumb' is .5 g for every W - IE, 125g = 75g or 2 1/2 oz.... I dunno about that. I'm guessing an oz dried is going to be about max but, I have been proven wrong before haha!
Hahahaha, I wanna know for sure... I'm using leds, but i'm disapointed with the results so far. I think they arent strong enouth yet. So .5g per watt is a good rule of thumb, like it. Thanx man.
My one plant is 21 inches, the others are lst'd running around 10-12 inches lush and full. So far I am pleased. Grew from around 7-9 inches to the 21 in 2 weeks in the organic soil.
First time around I didn't cycle my soil for many reasons....all of which aren't important anymore but mainly I was uniformed and short on time.. Well I used Organic Miracle Grow and amended it with kelp meal, tomato tone, greensand, and EWCs. At about 4 weeks in I started getting the necrosis or browning of the leaves like you, so I started cutting them off as they died one by one for about a month..eventually they dying slowed, never stopped..never finished the grow bcuz I ripped it up.. Anyways I'd say that you should watch the plant carefully for the next week. If you see advancing necrosis maybe you should transplant again to a soil that isn't so hot, and fertlize you plant with kelp, guano, and ewc teas. Eventually I have a 12" tall plant that was pretty much stripped of all lower branches. Just to see what would happen I FIMed it as well and the plant started growing stems where the ones I removed were, but the tips on those browned as well... Hopefully you'll get lucky and not have the same issue..but bad soil will ONLY cause you headaches! Sent from my iPad using GC Forum #FineSmoking
Ceb - totally understand about the LED's. One of my acquaintances is using LED's and he has them like an inch, tops, away from his plants. I saw your pics - very healthy but a bitch stretchy which I think is just kinda 'nature of the beast'. I will def check in on your journal though, good luck! Shubbie -wow, thats some good growth! I'm about 25 days in and right at 2 1/2 inches ( haha ). Its looking very healthy, but slow. The more and more I think about it, I wonder if this is a full indica or perhaps a lowryder - only time will tell! Illie - I appreciate your comments but I don't think I'm experiencing 'burn' in the reference you listed. I started with Promix BX which is a true, clean slate and added my amendments, stirred and kept it moist. I pulled the soil out, turned, water, turn, sit, turn, store once to twice a week, every week for ~ 3 months. I could be wrong, but I don't think that the amendments are in their beginning stages of breaking down ( being too hot ) but I have no problems doing more research. If you do not cook your soil, and especially if you are amending Miracle Grow which has time released nutes - your going to cook it, from what I understand. I'm sorry you ripped it up and didn't finish your grow, with a little corrective actions I am sure she could have been great! It has been my experience that true 'necrosis' is a natural process of the leaves dying and may indicate nutrient deficiency, lockout, virus, nematodes or 'stable, healthy growth' (Botanical Gardens) depending on the affected areas. Every single plant I have ever grown lost the cotyledon leaves, then the first set of serrated broad leaves and then began the true 'upward rise'. It was my understanding that the cotyledon and first 2 serrated leaves are the leaves that give the plant shape, stability and form rather than being an energy producing leaf such as the true 5-7 fan leave spurs above them. I am never one to say that I am always correct, but to clarify for my own knowledge I have a few questions. In previous experiences where I knew I burned the plant, the entire plant was effected and showed similar issues - not just the lowest growth - can you burn just 2 leaves of the entire plant? All growth aside from starter leaves are healthy and full. Is 3 months of watering and mixing the soil enough time or should I have even it more before planting? I thought you 'could' plant as early as 2 weeks but the longer the better?? Thanks again everyone!
No worries, trying to keep this thread on topic has been an event haha! Totally not worried tho, it made me double check everything which is never a bad thing. I am using a 125 w 10k lumen cfl - if my figures are correct that should be enough. I will also put my recipe up once I get home - but I worked with inthegarden and she gave me tons of excellent information. I am used to hydro and before I invest in organics, I wanted to do a test run. So far I think the slow growth is my issue by keeping it in such a small container but shy of that I am really happy with the healthy growth. Thanks again!
10k lumens will get you buy Im sure. The thing is that CFLs have HORRIBLE light intensity, so you have to keep them close to the plant to get them an adequate amount of light. You'd need to keep that plant short by LSTing if you can. That one CFL will provide light coverage to a certain depth. With CFLs you need to supplement lighting on the sides an in other places that the light won't penetrate to. Think of it like this...If you grow a 3ft tall plant which is likely unless you have a LowRyder, 2ft of that plant won't be getting adequate light bcuz they CFLs only penetrate so much. Sound viable? Just trying to help you not waste time bro. Not to lecture you or tell you what to do or how to grow. Afterall, it's your art, not mine
Hey everyone! Just checking back in, coming up on 30 days of veg and finally it is deciding to get up and boogey! I will probably start LST this weekend or mid next week. I am really impressed with the amount and density of leaves growing at the nodes - just reinforces the fact that the 125w self ballasted growing light is not your wally world CFL. Enough jabbering - pics!
Haha I was just about to post in my journal how crazy it is that my plants are growing so fast and I have to laugh at that jab. Is this 30 days since you've planted it? Or 30 days into veg + the 3w seedling stage(or how ever long you'd consider it). For example..my plants are 15 days from the day I planted them. The 21st day will be the day that I consider them the 1st day of veg. Get it? Not trying to be a dumb it down for you,I just don't really know how else to word it. We can compare when I get there tho since we're reinforcing facts Sent from my iPad using GC Forum #FineSmoking
Very healthy green plants! Did you do the transplant into larger containers? Now your growth will come down to the amount of light they are receiving - whatever you can do, more light is better at this point in the game. Again - beautiful healthy plants. J
Hey everyone! Been trying SO hard to keep this topic on track, but I am quickly realizing that it not going to be possible. Illie, you are right I was meaning 30 days from sprouting / breaking soil. I don't usually cut straws on the terminology but, if we are then you're right I have read a bit of mis-information throughout this thread as well as simple 'not understanding' and instead of getting upset and frustrated ( my wife has heard all my b!tching ) it would be better to teach. It appears that some individuals are comparing the 125w self ballasted cfl as a normal CFL. Not to hurt anyone's feelings, but since the research has not been done, I will explain. In simplicity - a normal CFL goes into a 'normal' edison light socket, the self ballasted cfl requires a mogul socket. " Mogul-base lamps are available for industrial use in larger power ratings (250-1500) and in halogen, mercury vapor, high-pressure sodium and metal halide configurations. Compact fluorescent mogul-base bulbs are also available, as are adaptors to allow medium-base bulbs to be used in mogul sockets." I have been growing ever since I got out of the Marine Corps a few years ago and have used multiple forms of lighting. I have never used organic soil as a medium - I wanted to try it on a small scale to see what I thought first hand - that is the entire reason I started this thread. I have never seen a soil setup ( commercial or personal ) that compares to my hydro and I HAD to try for myself. Not to debate growing methods, not to debate lighting, or things of the such but only the organic side of things - but - here we are. I used a 125w self ballasted 'grow light' because the is the most efficient ( 80 lumen per watt ) and best priced for performance ( 25 dollars for 6400k and 25 for 2700k and 5 dollars for mogul socket ) other than making the jump to a real mh / hps setup. Before we get into the specifics, I want to make sure we are all on the same page. Wattage of a light is important, but not nearly as important as lumen output which is the actual 'power' of the light. Distance from the plant is 2ndly the most important - contingent upon the lighting used ( HPS doesn't go 2 inches away from a young plant type thing haha ). Type of light is also highly important but for simplicity I have omitted that and accepted CFL as a default - please let me know if you would like me to explain further. Heat control is an understood and if we need to go over that, let me know... Lets just say you get 6 of the 29w, 1750 lumen CFLs making 10,500 total lumens output, your dick gets a little hard and you heard record breaking harvests from CFLs and thats what you want to do. The issue comes into the degradation of light over distance which really comes down to 'a matter of inches' LOL - thats what she said... http://www.yahooka.com/attachments/...chedule-assistant-light-distance-chart-1-.jpg That is a link giving a chart explaining how a few inches can reduce the candle light intensity that is received, significantly, some refer to it as 'penetration of light' - granted it is from HPS and not CFL but the facts remain the same. Meaning - if you start with 1750 lumens and reduce it by 15% ( lets say ~ 1 inch ) is 1487.5 ~ 2 inches 30% is 1225 , ~ 3 inches 50% is 875 . This is why it is advised that CFL's are kept close to the plant because the initial lumen output is too low to keep lumen reach intact while 'traveling the distance'. The 125w, 10,000 lumen at the same numbers, for argument sake, ~ 1 in 15% = 7500, ~ 2 in 30% = 7000 and ~ 3 50% = 5000. Realistically lumens do not depreciate that fast but you see that even at 50% lumen loss it is still more effective than two of the single CFL at their maximum rating. The more I was talking to my wife about this and how ( no offense ) I was getting frustrated with this thread it made me realize, I am trying an experiment of something that I've already done 30 previous 'what if' scenarios. To me, the only variable is the medium and container - soil with amendments vs rock wool, coco mats and trays. Didn't realize I didn't previously explain the things I am working on and for that I am sorry. Back on topic - organic experiment For my soil mix, I started with Promix BX 3.8 cf compressed and pulled out about 1/4 cu and set it aside for starting seedlings. As stated earlier, My soil has been resting since the end of September ( once a week, light watering keeping moist but not wet, mixing, letting it air out for half an hour and back it goes ) and is a mix of Promix BX, Perlite, Alfalfa Meal, Kelp Meal, Humic Powder, Worm Castings, Rock Phosphate, Agricultural Limestone, Mexican Bat Guano, Jamaican Bat Guano and once a month a small small small tea of black strap molasses mixed in. I mixed my mineral amendments ( Azomite, limestone, etc ) and added 2 1/2 cups per cu ft and mixed my other amendments together ( Kelp, Alfalfa, etc ) and added 2 cups per cu ft. 1 lb alfalfa, 1 lb kelp, 6 cups azomite, 1/2 lb rock phosphate, 1/2 cup limestone, 1/2 cup humic acid and 1 lb of each guano. I added 9 applications of distilled water and 3 applications of distilled water, black strap molasses and humic acid. I have been under-doing my recipe just a touch to compensate for the 1/4 cf I removed at the start. Checked on my baby this morning, looking good and I hope by tomorrow or the next day I will be ready to LST. Might tie down the anchor today - just because I suck at this whole patience thing haha! Again - thank you everyone for your input, can never have enough positive, intelligent back and forth conversation. Semper Fi Hornchen
Dude - No offense but you have a lot of learning to do - and hyjacking my thread is not the best avenue for you to go when learning. I read your post where your posting 'knowledge' that truly - is agriculture 101 basics. How to germinate, what is cotyledon leaves, what are the proper light cycles. The fact that you are using a octopus armed reading light with y sockets for 'total control' displays your understanding. Since you are wanting to compare yours to mine - look at how stretched your plants are and skinny opposed to mine. Your plants are reaching up for light where mine is focused on a more girthy growth even though my light is 5-6 inches away and yours are basically touching them. The lights do not compare. HPS and HM require a ballast, a device that regulates the electricity going through the light. The larger the ballast, the more electricity that needs to be regulated due to the power output. Normal $2 CFL's have a very small, if any ( pinned ) ballasts. Mogul bases ( used with MH and HPS ) are required due to the high heat, energy and size requirements of the bulbs themselves. Physical identifier that the lights are different. -- You said "You also mention losing lumens with distance, but you didn't mention gaining any back from the mylar reflection, which is very realistic. I've got my plants surrounded 270degrees, so I should be getting some of the to reflect back, given CFLs put of light in ALL directions. And as far as the distance that I can keep my smaller CFLs from the plant..I can go closer than 2" when i've got the fan on as they're really NOT HOT. You don't start running in to real temps with the CFLs until you get up in wattage." You are correct, reflective material will reflect the light back - but do not think that the returned light is even a fraction of the original output. So your 1750 CFLs are 2 inches away, your putting out 1225 - the reflected material ( which is a good 8-10 inches from your plant ) will reflect 8 inches of degradation back for another 8-10 inches to the underside of your plants... My setup has the sides no more than 4 inches away from the plant, reflecting back a higher % than the mylar blankets - if nothing else but based upon distance. You are also using what appears to be the reflective heat blankets so each bend and crease you have will cut your reflection down by a drastic % also. I painted the inside of the flat case with white paint, which reflects as much if not more than the flatest of mylar. The flatter the better as far as light reflection is concerned. If you have 30 lights each putting out 1750 lumens - your not putting out 52,500 lumens, light doesn't work that way - it does not compound ontop of one another. 52,500 'total lumens' would be if you compressed all that energy into a single pin point directly at the light - its good for 'bragging' but its not even a component when doing your math. If you have 30 of the same bulb, you are putting out 1750 lumens in 30 different places and you have to adjust your math to reflect this. You could have 100 cfl's, but each lights wavelength is independent unto its own. CFL's are great when working in small spots, like a PC case or rubbermaid container but anything larger then that a proper investment should be made. Remember, Lumens = penetration and 'power', watts = ~ .5g per watt yield and consumption of energy for lumen to watt efficiency. 100w per plant + 50w per plant after that is minimum. I would be more than happy to help you via PM's - no offense but I'd rather keep stuff that is SO far off topic - off the thread. I remember when I first started out and had the 'well I know that' attitude. I would really like to talk with you about your enclosure, container, soil, teas and if you want to go further into the subject, lighting. One thing I have learned over the years - don't pay so much attention to what 'author so and so' said. Get out there, experiment for yourself. Every cycle I do with my other set up I always test something - nutes, lights, CO2, light/dark cycle, etc - because you will NEVER know unless you do it yourself. Keep in touch - you have much potential young jedi haha
:long deep sigh:.... Now that I think about it, it's a combination of factors. Having adequate lighting and not enough if everything else will take away from the overall process as well. Don't know how I didn't mention that I. All the rambling before. But long story short.. We'll see in a couple month time. My grow is my art. Your grow is yours. I'll retire from your thread. I have indeed hijacked it to a certain extent lol #finesmoking Sent from my iPad using GC Forum #FineSmoking