Why Everyone Should Be Insulted By The Term "Friend Zone"

Discussion in 'Sex, Love & Relationships' started by Zeddy, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. Why Everyone Should Be Insulted By The Term "Friend Zone" | Nerve.com

    About a week ago, I wrote a Nerve article about sex terms that need to be retired, and without meaning to, I kicked off a heated debate about the term "Friend Zone," focusing on misogyny, miscommunication, and um, helping women move. Some people, including me, think "Friend Zone" has a misogynistic undertone. Others don't. I'm all for the open exchange of ideas, so let's try to wade through this together, shall we?

    At the most basic level, "being in the Friend Zone" means you're into someone in a romantic sense, but they see you as a platonic friend. And everyone — men and women — is susceptible to this experience. It's a bummer, we know. We alllll know.

    But if we're honest, in popular culture, the term most frequently refers to something that is done to men, by women. That's the problem. "Friend Zone" implies a sort of capricious, unfair act, perpetrated by the vagina-ed set.

    Chris Rock examines this in one of his stand-up routines: "Men don't have platonic friends. We just have women we haven't fucked yet. I mean, we've got some platonic friends, but they're all by accident — every platonic friend I've got is some woman I was trying to fuck, I made a wrong turn somewhere, and ended up in the Friend Zone: 'Oh no! I'm in the Friend Zone!'"

    But I don't think Chris Rock actually has a sum total of zero platonic female friends. I think he's playing with this idea that there's some core difference between the way men and women view relationships, and that men are incapable of viewing women as anything other than potential lays. The idea of the "Friend Zone" devalues actual platonic friendships, because it implies that all of the "friend-ish" things that men could do with women are just a ruse for sex-getting. Rock also jokes that a man in the Friend Zone is just "a dick in a glass case" put on reserve while a woman tries to fuck someone better. Using this logic, a woman would be nothing more than a vagina surrounded by a moat. The Friend Zone objectifies both parties — neither is more than a sex organ whose sole purpose is to pursue or be pursued by the other.

    Nerve commenter Slav succinctly sums up the other side of the argument:

    "There is nothing inherently misogynistic about the 'friend zone' — it is a valid concept because it reflects a common social phenomenon."

    Slav, I love you (as a friend), but I think the term is inherently misogynistic, because in common usage, it implies that an injustice has been done, and that someone has been deprived of sex that they've rightfully earned — that they deserve. But no one deserves sex, not even Ryan Gosling. If you say you're "in the Friend Zone," you've just created a space where, through no fault of your own, the person you were pursuing put you in a no-man's-land of eating pizza without touching knees and late-night discussions without sex. But in actuality, you haven't been moved to a new relationship sector, and your train to Vagina Heaven hasn't suddenly been derailed — you just didn't know which track you were on in the first place. Maybe use of the term is evidence of a breakdown in communication, but it's not a reflection of some social phenomenon wherein women perniciously sort their relationships into Would Fuck and Would Never Fuck, But Would Watch a Movie With.

    Here's commenter AAC:

    "['Friend Zone'] is a terrible way to start out this article, since it's a PERFECT way to describe the way that many women make (and self-report!) instantaneous, gut-level decisions about whether they would have sex with a particular person and — this is the key part — never change their mind about it. Most men I know don't do that, and don't relate to it at all."

    But "Friend Zone" can't be a description of an instantaneous reaction, because most colloquial use of "Friend Zone" implies a relationship, over time, taking a different course than one party expected, and if friendship is determined immediately, the assumption of something else wouldn't exist. Entire pickup-artist manuals are written about how to avoid going into the Friend Zone, after you meet someone.

    Moreover, who are these women "self-reporting" every one of their sexual decisions? I would go so far as to say that not one of my female friends determines who they will sleep with based on thirty seconds of interaction. Yes, sexual attraction can be instantaneous, but it can also grow over time. The last two people I've had sex with for an extended period of time, I'd known platonically for at least three years (!) before boning them. This could just be a weird thing that I do, but relationships do change. I'm much more likely to sleep with someone if they're sincerely hilarious and not also completely awful. But finding out if someone is sincerely hilarious (and not completely awful) necessitates spending some time together first, often in the relationship format commonly known as "friendship."

    But the existence of the term does show some difference in the way men and women react to sexual defeat. The reason "Friend Zone" is not synonymous with friendship is because it suggests failure. It's as if the Friend Zone is the consolation prize when romance doesn't happen. Here's what commenter oklund had to say on that topic:

    "I honestly, truly, have not observed a difference in the way two genders feel attraction; at least, not more than there is difference between any two people of either gender. I *have* observed a vast difference in inner monologue pending success/failure, leading to very different reaction patterns."

    Maybe it's because our society still, for the most part, views men as the "pursuers" and women as the "pursued," but when a relationship doesn't turn sexual, men often need a defense strategy. "Friend Zone" is inherently defensive, because it places responsibility on the second party. But no one has sex with everyone they want to have sex with, and expecting otherwise (and complaining when it doesn't happen) is pointless and immature.

    In the end, my problem is with what the term says about your power dynamic with the person you're applying it to. There is no ratio governing relationship input and sexual output, and platonic friendship is not a worldly evil designed to give you blue balls. And yeah, everyone — male and female — occasionally tries to parlay kindness and witty jokes into something sexual. That's how dating works, right? But when it doesn't work out, it's not because women have lured you into some crafty vortex of sexlessness, thwarting what could've been a beautiful relationship, or at least a brief, vigorous fucking.
     
  2. What a load of feminist crap.
     
  3. wall of text? damn
     

  4. Agreed sir.
     
  5. Too. Many. Words

    Too. Lazy. To. Read.
     
  6. this is actual feminist BS. like that one guy who was quoted in it said, "There is nothing inherently misogynistic about the 'friend zone' — it is a valid concept because it reflects a common social phenomenon." this is the way our brains were programmed from a biological sense. forgive me if i feel slighted that you were leading me on.
     
  7. Naw dude I have female friends that I wasn't trying to fuck. Simply because I was uninterested and they were pretty chill.
     
  8. And probably exhibited a lot of male characteristics. :p
     
  9. this thread is a bunch of feminist vagina talk.

    hopefully a mod will find it and realize its high level of bullshit
     

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  10. un-like
    friend zone is on both sides
    plenty of guys friend zone girls and vice versa.... if anything males are prolly just more "hurt" by it while women like being just close to people they are attracted to
     
  11. D'aww, a bunch of GC boys are butthurt because they don't want to accept that women aren't evil, manipulative harpies depriving them of their much earned sex. And instead they just keep sucking at the dating game...

    People complaining about the wall of text, go to the nerve site. There are pictures there and it's spilt into pages.
     
  12. [quote name='"Olesmoky"']And probably exhibited a lot of male characteristics. :p[/quote]

    Lmao how did you know
     
  13. I'm "butthurt" from your ignorance
     
  14. #14 TLF1088, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
    I'm not butthurt, I'm just hardly going to take an article that constantly references misogyny in society when misandry has become the issue.

    Also, I hardly consider women to be evil, but to say that the majority are not manipulative would be a lie.

    Women are more emotional and less confrontation than men, which leads them to be more manipulative.

    Men get angry when they are friendzoned after being manipulated.

    Multiple dates, dinners bought, money spent, while the woman constantly strings them along pretending she's interested....only to be denied once she has been satisfied with the attention she has gotten out of you and has found another guy.
     
  15. IMO, it's a two way street. I have plenty of female friends I've never slept with, some I have, and some that at one point or another I wanted to... It just depends. One of my boys sisters, would automatically go into my friend zone, while my hot neighbor would go into my "I want to smash that" zone... Women do lead on men, but the OP had a point, if men learned to play the dating game, it would happen to that said man less often. Guys be smart, in the dating process, pick economical places like Starbucks for a first date. Don't make sense to take them to a nice dinner the first time. Go on mid afternoon dates, so she's not hungry. It's not about what you say, it's about what you don't say...
     
  16. #16 Zeddy, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
    A few issues. First, the misandry thing is a joke outside of custody battles and r/mensrights.

    Second, where is the line of manipulation? Why's she being manipulative by accepting your gifts, but you're not being manipulative by giving them. All dating is an attempt at manipulation. The person who is less attached will always hold the power. Sometimes that's a man, sometimes it's a woman. And how do you know that the woman isn't really considering pursuing a relationship during the courtship? Like why do you think these women are stringing you along, pretending to be interested, maybe she's legitimately on the fence. Half interested, thinking things might get better with you.. wanting them to and then they just don't. That's the point of continuing to try, isn't it? And then you just get upset when she gets off the fence on the wrong side.

    But really, don't automatically pay for women and buy them dinners. The same feminist perspective that you guys are so offended by is the same one that tries to protect you from stupid shit like that.

    I think a lot of the issue with the 'friend zone' is that sex is the deciding factor. If you pay attention to her and she doesn't reciprocate that attention with sex, she's done something manipulative and malicious.

    I think it comes down to that. If you can accept that your attention does not mean she owes you sex then we don't have an issue. If you only pay attention/want to be friends with a girl because you want sex, then your ridiculous expectations are why you get hurt-- not all those girls just being selfish and mean.
     
  17. You are dead wrong. This is the way it works.

    Men want to fuck every single attractive girl they meet. If you are a friend of a guy and you are attractive, on some level he wants to fuck you. The only exception to this rule is if you are unattractive.

    Women are the choosers, Men are the pursuers.

    Let's go over this again. Men (at least the ones with the balls) hit on every attractive girl they see because they want to bone. If the girl likes what she sees, she obliges. If she doesn't, the attraction dies right then and there for her, but the attraction will always be there for the guy.

    Thus, the women "friend zones" him. The only reason a man will ever friend zone a woman is because she is unattractive. Fact.
     
  18. Ugh, man, I swear GC tends to be so fucking sexist its ridiculous.

    Decent article, I guess. Although, I'm not exactly fond of the topic its worth reading.
     
  19. I've friend zoned girls haha and I feel bad about it cuz fuck, I've been there too. But I'm picky as hell and sexual attraction is made up of a whole host of factors. Not just tits.

    Tits and ass though? You're game baby :devious:
     
  20. The term is not inherently misogynistic, through social use it can be argued that it has become so. Really though there isn't a substantial argument that it has. People of both gender use the term, and describe something that is not insulting. The main issue I have with what you wrote is that people don't usually think that they have a right to sex. It's just used, from what I understand to mean that a guy has been shut down. If someone wants another person and they can't have them it's just that simple, most people would not feel they have been robbed of what the are owed.
     

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