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Does I-502 in Washington Ban dispensaries and collective gardens?


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#1
doubts

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I just got my recommendation today. Please answer because this is making me freak out.

My doc told me that I-502 shuts down all dispensaries and basically abolishes the medical marijuana law. I was also told that by the guy at the dispensary that i registered at today. However, looking around online I keep seeing that I-502 will not affect the current medical marijuana law.

So what is true? Will I-502 shut down all collective gardens? Will I lose my right to buy pot if it passes since I am only 18, not 21?


Did i just waste my money? If it passes, I will lose my recommendation and be screwed right?

Just payed $100 for less then a month of access. Cause the polls are saying it is going to pass.

Edited by doubts, 24 October 2012 - 03:18 AM.

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#2
Asthmatic

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Read it and see. Don't submit to rumors, fear or be politically manipulated by some one who may or may not be acting in your best interest. :cool:

http://www.google.co...YGW0ALVeJbc2JQg

Become an informed voter and vote.

Edited by Asthmatic, 24 October 2012 - 03:54 AM.


#3
doubts

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Can you please give me your opinion. I have read it, but It isn't clear to me. Can you please give your interpretation on what it will do to the medical mj law?

#4
Russy

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Practices authorized under Chapter 69.51.A RCW for Medical Marijuana patients and designated providers are assumed unaffected by this initiative .

#5
doubts

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Ok, thats what i thought. However this doesn't explain why both my doctor and the budtender would tell me otherwise? Do they know something we don't? I mean I find it hard to believe that they would lie. But I also seems sort of unlikely that they are misinformed considering their income relies on the subject.

It just doesn't make much sense. Can anyone offer an explanation?

#6
bljamman89

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I've been wanting to know about this also, since it'll dictate how i vote.

#7
Russy

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Ok, thats what i thought. However this doesn't explain why both my doctor and the budtender would tell me otherwise? Do they know something we don't? I mean I find it hard to believe that they would lie. But I also seems sort of unlikely that they are misinformed considering their income relies on the subject.

It just doesn't make much sense. Can anyone offer an explanation?



Most likely answer is they are profiting heavily from MMJ , and dont want 502 to cut into their profits... but thats an assumption..

#8
doubts

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Most likely answer is they are profiting heavily from MMJ , and dont want 502 to cut into their profits... but thats an assumption..




But why would they both tell a complete lie? Is there something we are missing? That just doesn't make sense.

#9
doubts

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Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

#10
Paine

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They are either wrong about what is in I-502, or they are willfully misleading you. I've been arguing for a very long time with a lot of people about I-502, and there is a ton of misinformation out there. I-502 changes absolutely nothing about the medical marijuana law. None of the taxes or regulations in I-502 apply to dispensaries, collective gardens, or qualifying patients. Everything that is happening now under the medical marijuana law will continue to happen regardless of whether I-502 passes. I hope this answers your question, but I'm happy to clarify further if necessary.

#11
Paine

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But why would they both tell a complete lie? Is there something we are missing? That just doesn't make sense.


I don't think everyone who says this is lying. THey are just wrong. A few prominent people in the medical marijuana industry have been saying a lot of false things to dispensary owners. Since these are people they trust, many of them just transmit this fear and misinformation to their patients. It's extremely frustrating.

#12
Highlander 420

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"Does I-502 in Washington Ban dispensaries and collective gardens?"

The answer to that is a definite "maybe".

We have asked Alison Holcomb on this and her final answer is, we won't know until we know. Collectives may or may not be forced into the tax/regulate sections. And that was never their intention.

One thing we know that will FOR CERTAIN effect cannabis patients in this state is the DUI section that will criminalize driving with any amount of THC over 5 nanograms on people over 21, and anything over ZERO for people under 21.

Considering that most cannabis patients use every day, this pretty much criminalizes us every time we get behind the wheel.

You have to read the language very carefully in the DUI section. You will quickly realize that this has NOTHING to do with proving impairement. It is about making it easier on prosecutors to get DUI convictions.

King County Prosecutors have come out AGAINST per se DUI laws on cannabis because it WILL convict innocent people. They stated this in front of a senate hearing last year when a bill was up for debate on this matter.

Here is the Federal plan that this DUI section complies with...

Drugged Driving | The White House

And here is the Blueprint for the plan...very disturbing and nothing more than a new way to continue prohibition. We call it Drug War 3.0 after Harry Anslinger and Richard Nixon's first two versions...and this was written by Robert DuPont, one of Nixon's first Drug Czars...
http://www.whitehous...da_dd_paper.pdf

These dangerous per se laws must be defeated. Don't let them fool you with one hand offering "legal" ounces while the other hand stabs you in the back.

#13
Highlander 420

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"assumed unaffected" is not the same as saying it "is unaffected". No matter what anyone tells you from either side, the only correct answer is WE DO NOT KNOW. This could endup being decided by the courts.

#14
Paine

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I repeat: There is nothing in I-502 that changes anything about the medical marijuana law. Highlander 420 is here to troll for the No on I-502 campaign, headed by Steve Sarich, a "medical marijuana entrepreneuer". Get ready for a stream of misinformation, fearmongering, and paranoia. The "No" campaign has spouted so many lies since its inception it is a wonder they have any credibility with anyone.

#15
Highlander 420

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Say what you want about Sarich. This is what Alison Holcomb has stated. Sorry you don't like that answer, but there it is.

#16
Asthmatic

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you'd know if you would read the legislation your voting on. Down load the link I posted and search 69.51 and read what the law says about RCW 69.51.

The law will do nothing except mess up the DUI laws in WA. The DEA will pop any one who attempts to produce, process or trade in Cannabis under RCW 69.50 because it is a federal law that makes it illegal, the State law is irrelevant. It will remain illegal regardless of what happens with I-502. The best thing any state can do is remove all mention of Cannabis from their legal code and that is it. As close as the state can get to legalizing.

Any one at WLCB who attempts to to establish the taxing and licensing system under the provisions of I-502 will be subject to federal prosecution as accessories to the crime of drug manufacturing. Were all of you asleep a year or two ago when the Fed threatened the Gov. over trying to better regulate RCW 69.51

Edited by Asthmatic, 25 October 2012 - 12:45 PM.


#17
Paine

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you'd know if you would read the legislation your voting on. Down load the link I posted and search 69.51 and read what the law says about RCW 69.51.

The law will do nothing except mess up the DUI laws in WA. The DEA will pop any one who attempts to produce, process or trade in Cannabis under RCW 69.50 because it is a federal law that makes it illegal, the State law is irrelevant. It will remain illegal regardless of what happens with I-502. The best thing any state can do is remove all mention of Cannabis from their legal code and that is it. As close as the state can get to legalizing.

Any one at WLCB who attempts to to establish the taxing and licensing system under the provisions of I-502 will be subject to federal prosecution as accessories to the crime of drug manufacturing. Were all of you asleep a year or two ago when the Fed threatened the Gov. over trying to better regulate RCW 69.51


If what you say is true, the DEA would have preempted our medical marijuana law, which is also inconsistent with federal law. Our state already receives sales tax revenue from medical marijuana dispensaries, and sent letters to all of them stating that they must collect sales taxes.

Arizona licenses and regulates medical dispensaries, as does Washington DC. Seattle also issues licenses to medical dispensaries. There is no reason whatsoever to expect a preemption or a crackdown once I-502 passes. Part of the reason I-502 is crafted the way it is, is to show the federal government that this isn't a loosy goosey grow it wherever you want and however much you want bill. This is a responsible and modest way to move forward. No one pretends its the end of the line for the marijuana reform movement.

By the way, the letter Gregoire got was not from the federal government, it was from two attorneys giving their own point of view of what the feds will do. I find it extrememly unlikely that the Feds would intervene given the modesty of the proposal. Under 502 there is no "positive conflict" between state and federal law. The state will be issuing licenses and collecting taxes which they can do without violating the law.

#18
Paine

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Say what you want about Sarich. This is what Alison Holcomb has stated. Sorry you don't like that answer, but there it is.


As far as I know, Holcomb has said this in response to general questions about the impact of the bill. More specifically, about the implementation of the state regulated retail stores and what the federal government might do in response. This has nothing to do with medical marijuana. There is no legal impact on the medical marijuana system in I-502 whatsoever.

#19
stevesarich

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If what you say is true, the DEA would have preempted our medical marijuana law, which is also inconsistent with federal law. Our state already receives sales tax revenue from medical marijuana dispensaries, and sent letters to all of them stating that they must collect sales taxes.

Arizona licenses and regulates medical dispensaries, as does Washington DC. Seattle also issues licenses to medical dispensaries. There is no reason whatsoever to expect a preemption or a crackdown once I-502 passes. Part of the reason I-502 is crafted the way it is, is to show the federal government that this isn't a loosy goosey grow it wherever you want and however much you want bill. This is a responsible and modest way to move forward. No one pretends its the end of the line for the marijuana reform movement.

By the way, the letter Gregoire got was not from the federal government, it was from two attorneys giving their own point of view of what the feds will do. I find it extrememly unlikely that the Feds would intervene given the modesty of the proposal. Under 502 there is no "positive conflict" between state and federal law. The state will be issuing licenses and collecting taxes which they can do without violating the law.


First, let me correct one statement. The "threatening letter" to Gov. Gregoire came from Jenny Durkan, whose title is the United States Attorney for the Western District of Washington. She is, in fact, the legal arm of the Federal Government in Western Washington. If anyone were to intervene on the part of the Federal Government, it would most likely be Durkan.

It was her counterpart, Michael Ormsby, in the Eastern District of Washington, who ordered the closures of ALL of the dispensaries in Eastern and Central Washington. Mr. Ormsby is a true marijuana hater. To think that he would not zealously pursue anyone in the Eastern District that was growing and selling marijuana for recreational use it just silly.

This whole arguement that somehow the Feds will be too intimidated to intervene, or for some reason hesitate to close down the growing and sales of recreational marijuana to anyone over 21 because the law is "well-crafted" is simply a poorly crafted sales slogan coming directly from the paid media spinmasters hired by New Approach Washington.

Colorado's dispensary law was also passed by the voters. The law includes the highest taxes and the most restrictions of any of the seventeen states medical cannabis laws. Last year the Feds were not too scared to intervene and closed down 57 of these dispensaries....that ONLY sold to patients.

In Montana....the Federal Prosecutor closed down every single dispensary in the state and they are now looking at giving Chris Williams, a medical marijuana grower there between 45 & 85 years in Federal prison. And you think the Feds aren't serious?

Within the last month, the Feds have closed down 29 dispensaries in Seattle. Seattle has always be a "sanctuary city"....but no more. So far, the Obama administration has conducted over 170 SWAT style raids on medical cannabis dispensaries.

Which of these actions, all taken against MEDICAL marijuana growers and retailers, gives you the "feeling" that the Feds will simply ignore the growing and sales of 187,000 pounds of recreational marijuana in Washington State if I-502 passes?

The State COULD stop the preemption by the Feds under Title 21, section 903, of the Federal Controlled Substance Act, which gives the states the power to control controlled substances. In order to make that arguement in a Federal Court, however, the state would have to ACTUALLY legalize marijuana in the State of Washington..... and I-502 absolutely DOES NOT do that (despite the hype from the sponsors). Under I-502, marijuana will remain an illegal, Schedule 1 narcotic, under the State Controlled Substances Act. This makes it impossible for State to challenge a Federal preemption in Federal Court.

I publicly debate the 1-502 sponsors at least two or three times a week. I'll be debating Alison Holcolm tonight in Thurston County. Her only response now is not a legal explanation for how they can stop Federal preemption, because they don't have one. Their standard answer now is that "it will be a political decision". And so was the closure of 29 medical cannabis dispensaries in Seattle this month. We have a pretty clear idea what their "political decision" is going to be and no indication that they'll show any restraint because this is "recreational" marijuana, in fact, logic would tell us that they will crack down much harder on recreational sales.

Please don't be fooled by this Trojan Horse. All you will get out of this law is a Per Se DUID law that you'll have no defense for in court.

Steve Sarich
Manager & Spokesman
NO ON I-502 Committee

P.S. While Arizona has a dispensary law in place, the first one hasn't yet opened, so there are currently no dispensaries in Arizona for the Feds to shut down.

#20
stevesarich

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As far as I know, Holcomb has said this in response to general questions about the impact of the bill. More specifically, about the implementation of the state regulated retail stores and what the federal government might do in response. This has nothing to do with medical marijuana. There is no legal impact on the medical marijuana system in I-502 whatsoever.


Actually, what their arguement is is that it doesn't change any of the wording of the current medical cannabis law....and that much is true. What it does do is define who can legally grow marijuana in the State of Washington once the bill passes. That does NOT include any provision for medical growers or collective gardening. If they wanted to protect medical, they would have had to include a specific exemption for those whose grows fell under RCW 69.51A. Newer laws generally replace older laws on the same subject. This is done by the Code Revisors Office. This, too, could be a "political decision". If it is, we'll lose.

Holcolm has already stated that the current "grey market dispensaries" will have to be licensed by the LCB or shut down. But she fails to address collective gardens. I'll try to bring that up in tonights debate and see if I can get a straight answer out of her....which is always a challenge. :devious:




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