The perfect student of Plato would rather contemplate a meal than eat it. Such people are tediously dull and rarely worth paying attention to. Men of "strong principle" generally fall under the same boring banner though. You're also missing the point of relativism. It doesn't claim that both points are equally true - rather that both points of view (conceptual ideas such as ethics and the like existing in the human mind on a purely subjective basis) are equally invalid and irrelevant objectively. They're only true subjectively.
[quote name='"jay-bird"'] Hey, thanks! EDIT* No wait a minute, No this is not okay. I just looked up tl;dr on google and you seriously didn't read everything I typed? pshh.. jesus christ. Mine was only a little longer than yours, bro (no pun intended hah) but r u kidding me? SUPER EDIT* w/e just fuck it. don't read it. For some time now, I have been developing theories of the human psyche, that seem to only be explainable through analogies and symbols. It's very hard for me to tell or write to people how I feel without it being very long. One day, I know you will all see. Don't be afraid to "waste your time" talkin about the things that are REAL, and right in front of us. Now watch, though, I will get barely any replies to the last idea I posted in the thread... But days, weeks, or months from now a similar thread to this is going to pop up. And everyone will just drool all over themselves again.[/quote] I did read it. The tl;dr was for others less inclined to do so. How could I have provided a summarized version of what you said without actually reading and comprehending it?
What? Intrinsic value is related to morals, the 2 are similar I just used them both to save myself the time. Taken from Stanford Encyclopedia. Intrinsic value is also often taken to be pertinent to judgments about moral justice (whether having to do with moral rights or moral desert), insofar as it is good that justice is done and bad that justice is denied, in ways that appear intimately tied to intrinsic value. You guys trying to look smart, rather than stand for anything, are really part of the problem in this world. **Facepalm edit Our species has intrinsic values of patterns of nourishment and development. Such as eating, sleeping, feeling happy or good rather than shitty or abused and scared. Of course I know that humans are so versatile, you can provide sustainable living for them even under extreme conditions for certain periods of time. But fuck that. I want myself, and all others, to really live by a standard that is the exact opposite of chaotic. I want humans to be in control, yet in an enjoyable way. When I use vocabulary like "happy" and "enjoyable", these terms aren't supposed to be countered with a need for true facts. You cannot actualize justice or emotions as fact. I thought this was philosophy? Our lives? **Edit to PeruvianDank Impossible, because nihilism ain't got shit on me haha.
Using the vocabulary of my textbooks, doesn't really show me that you have actually used them to better your own lives and ideas.
But wait a minute, I'm talking to people who think fuckin crack lsd cocaine heroin speed meth should all be legal. HAH
[quote name='"jay-bird"'] What? Intrinsic value is related to morals, the 2 are similar I just used them both to save myself the time. Taken from Stanford Encyclopedia. Intrinsic value is also often taken to be pertinent to judgments about moral justice (whether having to do with moral rights or moral desert), insofar as it is good that justice is done and bad that justice is denied, in ways that appear intimately tied to intrinsic value. You guys trying to look smart, rather than stand for anything, are really part of the problem in this world. **Facepalm edit Our species has intrinsic values of patterns of nourishment and development. Such as eating, sleeping, feeling happy or good rather than shitty or abused and scared. Of course I know that humans are so versatile, you can provide sustainable living for them even under extreme conditions for certain periods of time. But fuck that. I want myself, and all others, to really live by a standard that is the exact opposite of chaotic. I want humans to be in control, yet in an enjoyable way. When I use vocabulary like "happy" and "enjoyable", these terms aren't supposed to be countered with a need for true facts. You cannot actualize justice or emotions as fact. I thought this was philosophy? Our lives? **Edit to PeruvianDank Impossible, because nihilism ain't got shit on me haha.[/quote] Good job taking intrinsic value from your source out of context. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/value-intrinsic-extrinsic/ It's only 1 out of 4 given definitions, with more assumptions being made than you have fingers.
[quote name='"jay-bird"']Using the vocabulary of my textbooks, doesn't really show me that you have actually used them to better your own lives and ideas.[/quote] Telling someone they're not showing you they're bettering their lives and ideas does not show that they have not. Who are you to decide we must demonstrate how we enhance our lives and ideas?
[quote name='"jay-bird"']But wait a minute, I'm talking to people who think fuckin crack lsd cocaine heroin speed meth should all be legal. HAH[/quote] What?
If all those were legal, they wouldnt be the problem they are today, anyway. But wait, wtf does that even have to do with this? Just because you dont feel you have a "purpose", doesnt mean your life is worthless. People put too much fucking emphasis on "purpose".. Why cant "feels good man" be more important?
Did you mean to post this here? I don't know man, it sounds weird, irrelevant and plain retarded. p.s. you are still wrong. Be more honest with yourself and those around you. See Life for what it really is! You'll be surprised how much you can learn just by observing and thinking rationally. Absolute Good or Evil don't exist, no absolute morals, no intrinsic/objective value or meaning. No god(s), no bullshit.
okay once again lets agree to disagree... this is another classic case... the many berate and overpower the few. all saying the same thing, unable to ever respond in a non-robotic way. some humans just dont understand. you all bore and depress me. this is what the world is becoming, only because you all feel it should, or because its the only way. either way it makes me face palm.
Where is your proof show me your proof. You have not presented it, yet. I gave you my version of proof that it does already. Where is your proof that we should disregard these things? Because if you're saying that we shouldn't disregard them but believe they don't exist, it is YOU who is'nt being logical. prolly cuz you think its well-cultured or intellectual to be this way, or can just bring you to a better state of mind... you are absolutely wrong. where did this come from? when did this mindset kick in for people on such a scale?
I didn't read the whole thread to be honest but plain and simple a person that has those beliefs is just as ignorant as a person that thinks there is nothing. No one knows. Nobody can honestly say there is an afterlife but there is no one that can say there isn't an afterlife. I'd say anyone who argues about this subject, or religion which is basically the same thing, is just hands down ignorant as fuck. Its unknown to everyone.
Well it really depends on your perspective as a biologist or scientist be it from the east or west hemisphere obviously isn't going to have the same views as those who invest themselves in any form of theological practice even if it be the ayahuasca shamans of the amazon or tibetan monks who, based on what I've read and heard, could be considered two of the most conscious, introspectively intelligent, demographic of human beings. Take for instance a Darwinian who might say our internal importance is to repopulate or perpetuate our species existence because that's what our mind has been hard wired to do through natural selection as well as evolution; well thats very true and could be considered a purpose from a grand scale of the species point of view. We exist to perpetuate the species and hold our place in the worlds web. On the other hand, from a Shamanistic or Tibetan view, who always strive to peak their awareness of themselves and the world around them could find great intrinsic meaning in their ever-expanding consciousness. They have found purpose in acquiring a wealth of knowledge and experiences to aid everyone in finding peace/balance in order to focus the mind to aquire knowledge not many find value in( particularly our western society and thats introspective speculation, evaluating yourself, who you want to be, and what you need to improve) Then there's those like OP who don't see meaning and that's cool too because that's their perspective and its all perspective my friends life is perspective just look at our brain which is trained to seek organization and logic conditioned into us by society as well as innate biology no one has the answer but everyone's correct find your own meaning in life because it's as diverse as the species itself.
I posted this in the other thread that AlwaysDizzy made. Pshh Im dizzy right now this is a weed forum right? That's about the only thing I have in common with some of you guys here. NO! I WONT LET IT HAPPEN! To peruviandank, You being able to manipulate the world to worship ur fuckin dick, similar to that Kony guy from Africa is part of the problem! This is what I stand against. Kony has slaughtered masses of people and ruined their lives. Do you guys not feel some type of way about that shit? Do you guys feel indifferent to it? If all humans were manipulated in this way, the human race would NOT be able to sustain itself. That's what these philosophers don't say outright, is that lack of regard for these intrinsic values would likely lead to downfall of society (or if the ancient peoples didn't regard these things, no society today perhaps) People should be developed to think like the way AlwaysDizzy wants them to think, to be in control of their lives on a deep level. To appreciate it, to crave it. This is our purpose. Let us salt the earth. I will foster the progression through the intrinsic values of justice and fairness, which are on a completely different level, the likes of which craving for actual proof or else theres no point, cannot be countered by. You either support the order of the benevolent human process (which the majority of people haven't perfected or tried to practice until now, i dont either prolly), a different one that is lesser, or none at all. I'll give you actual proof... how would you feel if someone raped your mother? The intrinsic value, is to NOT live through pain, or put others through it. Because the human symbol of justice and karma will always... rip apart with fangs, those who do not do well to remember that. No but you're above us. You know it all man. You know more and HAVE SOLVED MORE in life with theories like this than with common sense, understanding, and fairness. AND to all the people saying I need to talk to peruvian dank fairly, his other thread's title still negates that. I have thought about life the way in fucking junior high school. **And now, to close.. Whether it may be real or not, the human species has to be brought up this way or else its societies which foster orderly and happy life will go down the tubes. Maybe its OK to feel this way as an individual, but I'm sure you were all raised with morals in mind. That must never cease.
1. We obviously feel negatively about that and think it is a bad thing to do. We just don't pretend that makes it the absolute truth, but we recognize that it's really an opinion that we have gained from our culture and experiences. 2. Only the downfall of this current society, maybe. Nothin to say a different society couldn't arise. People used to sacrifice babies to the fire for rain. That was moral and just in their eyes. "But what?" they must have cried, "What society could exist without our intrinsic values? Don't you want rain? How can we have a society that doesn't have these basic moral rules?" And now we don't have those rules, we don't throw babies into fire and we still have rain and society.