This thread hits the nail on the head. everyone gets so upset its almost taboo to tell someone that (their/our) life probably has no meaning. People cling to meaning fiercely because i think they know that none of this makes sense. Without that (as far as we know) false sense of meaning, they'd have to come to terms with that. That's not to say nothing people do is significant, because significance is subjective. its just that, on a universal scale, it doesnt make a difference.
You may have miss interpreted my statement... is, basically, the whole point of what I was saying. (other than my part about meaning of one's life relative to them) You basically said, what I said, back to me... I don't get where you're going with this.
No shit. However, people need to be enthusiastic about life and leaving a lasting and powerful yet positive legacy. People get upset when those around them waste space in their communities and society because they aren't standing for anything, they have no passion, asides themselves and their own good time. Successful CEO's with children can even fit this bill. Anyone can fit this bill. People are not doing the right thing, people are not living by / creating the right symbols in their lives. People do not communicate the right way. In the midst of all this confusion, is people questioning themselves, their families, nations, and lives. It's a damn shame. Nations should be reformed from the inside out, rather than rendered into shitty societies where family values break down, like our current situations.
Does your life have any meaning or any significant affect on the cosmos and the world as a whole? No it doesn't but that doesn't mean your life can't have meaning or a significant affect on not only yourself but those who become a part of it. How are you going to tell a mother her child's life has no meaning? You can't, because to that mother her child IS the meaning of her life. You can't tell somebody else whether their life has meaning or not. There's only one person who can decide whether or not our life has/had significance and that is ourselves, and there is only one moment in our lives where we will be truly honest with ourselves and that is at the time of death. We live in a world where the unknown is much greater, powerful, and influential then the known. In a world where the unknown is the driving force one can't try and explain things like is life significant or meaningful the only thing one can do is strive to FEEL as though their own life was significant enough, if not to yourself to at least somebody else.
Nihilism (no objective meaning/value) does not make you depressed or lazy, or passionless, or anything of that matter. In my case, I used to be a Catholic when I was a teen and to me Life was just life, nothing out of the ordinary. I was told to believe that a paternal figure in the sky would take me with him to the heavens when I died. I was told to behave in irrational and archaic ways (remember the 'sins'). I was told to not think, to not challenge preconceived beliefs about Life and reality. I was, without knowing, losing out on all the wonders Life had to offer just because of the mindset that had been implanted since I was born. But I couldn't, I needed to know. And after embarking on this philosophical odyssey, years ago, I still haven't reached Ithaca. Perhaps I never will get there but to see its mainland from afar, would be enough for me, because as the cliché goes, it's not about the destination but more importantly the journey. You will learn much about yourself, the human condition and the world in general if you go out and search for Truth. And in a beautiful poetic twist, the journey becomes the destination.
I believe the truth is hidden in our past, this planet needs a paradigm shift. We are currently living in a patriarchal society that focuses on: history, linear time, dogma, rationality, waking reality and science. This, in conjunction with culture and the education system leads to a status quo that is extremely hard to break and thus there is no true progress being made. Rather than argueing about whether life is real or not, we should be pursuing goals that puts the needs of everyone ahead of everything. I personally believe that evolution is not a linear progression to a more evolved society but it is rather like a line graph that spikes up and down and on that note, you guys should check out this video [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI1UHyMNY3s&feature=relmfu]The Pyramid Code - EP2 - High Level Technology - YouTube[/ame] pretttyyy interesting if you ask me
All perception. Right and wrong have different meanings to different people. Morals and beliefs vary and there really aren't any DEFINING laws that are absolute. I view this life as a big playground and we all are doing our own thing. Only time I see wrong is when a decision negatively affects(just for you BuffaloSouldia) another. Now I have my own opinions on different subjects regarding "right" and "wrong" but I don't consider it to be the answer for everyone.
[quote name='"ireallydontwhat"'] All perception. Right and wrong have different meanings to different people. Morals and beliefs vary and there really aren't any DEFINING laws that are absolute. I view this life as a big playground and we all are doing our own thing. Only time I see wrong is when a decision negatively effects another. Now I have my own opinions on different subjects regarding "right" and "wrong" but I don't consider it to be the answer for everyone.[/quote] This is relativism (google it), which is logically contradictory. You contradicted yourself in this post alone by saying "only time I see wrong is when a decision negatively effects ( it's affects btw, learn grammar) another." How does this make sense when you say "right and wrong have different meanings to different people?" What if my right is actually negatively affecting other people? Then who is right? This is the contradiction in relativism. How can two beliefs that state the exact opposite of each other both be true? Answer: they can't. Principle of non-contradiction (google it). I don't want to tell anyone what is the purpose of life, etc bc I feel that's something you as an individual must figure out for yourself. However, I can't stand relativist. It makes no sense and it's completely self-defeating. For example: let's say I believe that your belief is completely false. By your own omission, you have to acknowledge the truth value of my statement thereby defeating your initial claim. You see the contradiction? I mean, even Plato thought relativism was retarded. I believe in an ultimate truth. What is that truth? That's for you to decide for yourself, but it certainly isn't everybody is right.
I am not typing an essay so forgive my errors. You obviously understood what I meant(or did you). I thought I made it clear here, "Now I have my own opinions on different subjects regarding "right" and "wrong" but I don't consider it to be the answer for everyone." If your right is negatively AFFECTING others then so be it. The point of my post was that I see life as all perspective. It is how you perceive it. Your right or wrong may be different than mine. You ask who is right? My response would be no one. I don't necessarily believe everybody is right at all. I just don't really believe in absolute right or wrong. I have my own beliefs of what I find right or wrong. Let's say majority of the people want to keep Cannabis illegal. Are they right and we are wrong? Am I wrong for smoking or are they wrong for NOT smoking. Who is right?
I'm think that two people can actually have two simultaneously opposing views, and both be 'right'. It's fucked, but it works on the principle of the individual. Each man knows to himself what is right and wrong, and you can't say for another what that is for sure. Now, that doesn't mean a man can go about and do anything that he wants to because 'anything is true'. He happens to have his own path and the more he follows it, the truer he is.
[quote name='"BuffaloSouldia"'] This is relativism (google it), which is logically contradictory. You contradicted yourself in this post alone by saying "only time I see wrong is when a decision negatively effects ( it's affects btw, learn grammar) another." How does this make sense when you say "right and wrong have different meanings to different people?" What if my right is actually negatively affecting other people? Then who is right? This is the contradiction in relativism. How can two beliefs that state the exact opposite of each other both be true? Answer: they can't. Principle of non-contradiction (google it). I don't want to tell anyone what is the purpose of life, etc bc I feel that's something you as an individual must figure out for yourself. However, I can't stand relativist. It makes no sense and it's completely self-defeating. For example: let's say I believe that your belief is completely false. By your own omission, you have to acknowledge the truth value of my statement thereby defeating your initial claim. You see the contradiction? I mean, even Plato thought relativism was retarded. I believe in an ultimate truth. What is that truth? That's for you to decide for yourself, but it certainly isn't everybody is right.[/quote] It sounded to me that he meant more along the lines of he realizing other people have definitions of right and wrong, and that he's not gonna try and convert others to his ideology...
It is through intellectual introspection and insight that I have found that life has an intrinsic meaning. I don't need to know the specific ins and outs of it in order to come up with such a conclusion. It's a bit like making coffee. I can make coffee but I don't know everything about it in detail. I don't know what temperature the match ignites at, what compounds mix, what fumes are given off. I don't know what temperature the gas burns at, or what temperature the coffee pot should be at the make a perfect cup. I don't know how long it takes to percolate, or why the machine was built the way it is. I don't know the process of extracting the beans, how long they were roasted for, and so on. Yet I can make coffee. Life is sort of the same.
[quote name='"jay-bird"'] No shit. However, people need to be enthusiastic about life and leaving a lasting and powerful yet positive legacy. People get upset when those around them waste space in their communities and society because they aren't standing for anything, they have no passion, asides themselves and their own good time. Successful CEO's with children can even fit this bill. Anyone can fit this bill. People are not doing the right thing, people are not living by / creating the right symbols in their lives. People do not communicate the right way. In the midst of all this confusion, is people questioning themselves, their families, nations, and lives. It's a damn shame. Nations should be reformed from the inside out, rather than rendered into shitty societies where family values break down, like our current situations.[/quote] This post and the other one you made were both completely contradictory with what you're preaching. You claim, "Be positive, communicate effeciently," yet you're disrespectful and negative. If you have a certain view, why not fully embody and embrace it? If it's not important enough for you to that, then what is the purpose of you telling others to do so? In my opinion, if life has meaning, then it can be found by looking at the universe as a whole. To know what the point of life is, you must first have all the variables, unless you're into shooting at something in the dark. I find looking for the purpose of life is useless until we've come to know where the limits are. If there is no limit, then where is the meaning? Everything is possible, even if it's not on Earth, or in our solar system, or in the Milky Way galaxy. I'd rather spend my time seeing what else is possible than why we're here
Okay, His thread title pretty much said others of dissenting opinion are ignorant. Secondly, I agree with you, that humans should keep marveling and trying to find out what is possible. But people thinking that there is no point to life, will surely not be so enthusiastic about "seeing what else is possible" compared to those who do think that life has intrinsic meaning and value. This is what I'm on about; A fear: Of people who think that life has no intrinsic meaning or value pissing me the fuck off with their apathetic selves, and blatantly childish attitudes. Thread poster and thread title case and fukin point. Life's point is obviously what you choose to make it, but what you choose to make life out to be will really tell people a lot about yourself, and IMO there are healthier ways to live life than thinking there is no point. Why don't you stoners get up, and get involved in your local neighborhood politics like I fukin' did in order to make life better. Because I wasn't fulfilled. I wasn't happy sitting around. I wanna be a part of my society and make it better. I have safety and comfort in the path of righteousness, the path of the abyss of thoughts. Thoughts that are so extreme that they do not get the best of me, but make me stand up and work for my world so they may never happen. Humans are not extreme creatures. Ever heard of yin and yang? For the most part the human species cannot be too extreme. Nah you guys think I get off at looking at the masses of people on this forum disagreeing with me constantly. Like I really wanna be a troll. If I really wanted to be a troll, I would have a lot more posts than I do now, with this forum. And about my attitude, Your superiors may have disciplined you in ways that might not have been "nice" but whoop-de-fukin do. If I'm right, whether I hurt anyone's feelings or not shouldn't matter. I have feelings too, buddy, and they were already hurt at the title of the thread and the responses I'v received. You're just hoppin on a bandwagon. If life didn't have intrinsic values and meanings, we would all be dead. Our species has intrinsic values, the same way other species have their values in which they mostly stick to (without being able to tell us why cuz they r fukin animals) in order to progress their lives. The special thing about humans is that we actually CAN tell others what our purpose is, or have abstract thoughts, and you guys believe that since we have that freedom; there is no point because its all some big mind-fuck or something. I believe in human superiority. The purpose of the universe is for humans to master it, based on their own rationales. I am ashamed to put some of you into the ranks of "human" when you have no passion about being part of the human process. (I guess its ok for some to be this way once in a while but where would humans and our world be, if all humans didn't really care, or felt that there was no point?) Where would some of us be, if our ancestors didn't work hard during their own lifetimes so their descendants and fellow future people could live better? Theories / philosophies that actually can and WILL foster progression will NOT be fluffed to the side while people attempt to engage in more "cooler", "funner", or "cop-out" ideas the likes of which skeptics and philosophers throughout history have been spewing. People won't be pushing "new-ideas" into our faces anymore, cuz we really don't want em'. Fuck hollywood, fuck video-games, fuck movies, fuck books (except factual and historical texts/journals of course), and fuck the modern school system for the most part. Make life your own movie, but make sure its a good one, with some closure and lessons learned at the end. Jeez. The time when people stand together for common sensible reality and aren't afraid to bite back at those who try and make normal people feel stupid for believing life has meanings/ values/ and points is now. I will always be working for something, besides myself. I don't know about you guys. I will always be marveling, and willing to learn, and try to do things right.
[quote name='"jay-bird"'] Okay, His thread title pretty much said others of dissenting opinion are ignorant. Secondly, I agree with you, that humans should keep marveling and trying to find out what is possible. But people thinking that there is no point to life, will surely not be so enthusiastic about "seeing what else is possible" compared to those who do think that life has intrinsic meaning and value. This is what I'm on about; A fear: Of people who think that life has no intrinsic meaning or value pissing me the fuck off with their apathetic selves, and blatantly childish attitudes. Thread poster and thread title case and fukin point. Life's point is obviously what you choose to make it, but what you choose to make life out to be will really tell people a lot about yourself, and IMO there are healthier ways to live life than thinking there is no point. Why don't you stoners get up, and get involved in your local neighborhood politics like I fukin' did in order to make life better. Because I wasn't fulfilled. I wasn't happy sitting around. I wanna be a part of my society and make it better. I have safety and comfort in the path of righteousness, the path of the abyss of thoughts. Thoughts that are so extreme that they do not get the best of me, but make me stand up and work for my world so they may never happen. Humans are not extreme creatures. Ever heard of yin and yang? For the most part the human species cannot be too extreme. Nah you guys think I get off at looking at the masses of people on this forum disagreeing with me CONSTANTLY. Like I really wanna be a troll. If I really wanted to be a troll, I would have a lot more posts than I do now, with this forum. And about my attitude, Your superiors may have disciplined you in ways that might not have been "nice" but whoop-de-fukin do. If I'm right, whether I hurt anyone's feelings or not shouldn't matter. I have feelings too, buddy, and they were already hurt at the title of the thread and the responses I'v received. You're just hoppin on a bandwagon. If life didn't have intrinsic values and meanings, we would all be dead. Our species has intrinsic values, the same way other species have their values in which they mostly stick to (without being able to tell us why cuz they r fukin animals) in order to progress their lives. The special thing about humans is that we actually CAN tell others what our purpose is, or have abstract thoughts, and you guys believe that since we have that freedom; there is no point because its all some big mind-fuck or something. I believe in human superiority. The purpose of the universe is for humans to master it, based on their own rationales. I am ashamed to put some of you into the ranks of "human" when you have no passion about being part of the human process. Theories / philosophies that actually can and WILL foster progression will NOT be fluffed to the side while people attempt to engage in more "cooler", "funner", or "cop-out" ideas the likes of which skeptics and philosophers throughout history have been spewing. People won't be pushing "new-ideas" into our faces anymore, cuz we really don't want em'. Fuck hollywood, fuck video-games, fuck movies, fuck books (except factual and historical texts/journals of course), and fuck the modern school system for the most part. Make life your own movie, but make sure its a good one, with some closure and lessons learned at the end. Jeez. The time when people stand together for common sensible reality and aren't afraid to bite back at those who try and make normal people feel stupid for believing life has meanings/ values/ and points is NOW. I will always be working for something, besides myself. I don't know about you guys. I will always be marveling, and willing to learn, and try to do things right.[/quote] TL;DR: Apathy sucks because humans should control the universe. If it gets you going, more power to you!
Hey, thanks! EDIT* No wait a minute, No this is not okay. I just looked up tl;dr on google and you seriously didn't read everything I typed? pshh.. jesus christ. Mine was only a little longer than yours, bro (no pun intended hah) but r u kidding me? SUPER EDIT* w/e just fuck it. don't read it. For some time now, I have been developing theories of the human psyche, that seem to only be explainable through analogies and symbols. It's very hard for me to tell or write to people how I feel without it being very long. One day, I know you will all see. Don't be afraid to "waste your time" talkin about the things that are REAL, and right in front of us. Now watch, though, I will get barely any replies to the last idea I posted in the thread... But days, weeks, or months from now a similar thread to this is going to pop up. And everyone will just drool all over themselves again.
wow man, i'm not involved in this argument but let me just lay out the facts for you. Life = Experience = Positive and Negative. Good and bad things happen, because we experience things like this. Therefore life does have intrinsic value - to do good things, in general. The guys that say it doesn't have intrinsic value are referring to a less obvious purpose, like as you say "humans to master the universe". Now basically, the reason there is argument in this thread is because your beliefs guide your thinking thus you can't understand their views because they're thinking purely logically. You believe some stuff that you can't logically support (e.g. humans being masters of the universe - you may think us being the strongest species is evidence for this, but in actuality we became the strongest species for biology related reasons. There are also many other planets out there capable of supporting life). Since there is no rational evidence for this kind of thing you can't argue it to people that only think rationally. Not trying to bum you out or anything man but this really is the truth. If we can all think rationally and understand why we have different opinions we will start to be more open to the truth.