I honestly do not understand how someone, in a sane state of mind, could come to the anthropocentric conclusion that ultimately life is not pointless and/or that we are not just some random specks on a random rock. This may be true... but how the fuck would anyone ever know the truth? How could one claim to know? I feel like if you claim to believe Life has an objective point, or if you're a fully gnostic theist, you lack intellectual introspection and insight, or something negative has happened to you in life that steered you to this conclusion. Its the natural state of consciousness to expand infinitely seeking new knowledge and wisdom (see: Tree of Life). Regardless of the truth, if you are someone who settles for "Life has a priori meaning" please explain why you see things the way you do.
I enjoyed this. I think this perspective more adequately addressed the variation of answers to the question of meaning, and their compelling subjectivity.
life in and of itself has no meaning. but i think that conversely means that every moment of every day means something, because nothing means anything yet i'm doing this, therefore it must have some meaning over another thing because i'm doing this and not that! if you look up into the stars, you could see a single star. and that single star could be an entire galaxy far away containing life dwelling planets like our own. and on that planet is a life form similar to ours looking back into the stars and seeing our milky way as just a simple star. our planet is non-existent to him, you are non-existent to him. you are just a star in the stars. for me, that makes me smile, and i find meaning knowing i am an irrelevant part of the cosmos.
We may be random specks on a random rock, but is the rock not a speck too? Just as the sun and the galaxy are. The quantum world could also said to be all mere specks. If the state of being a speck has any bearing, then it's true on all scales. So maybe existence itself, or all that exists, is meaningless and or has no value. After all, the positive part the universe adds up with the negative part, to zero. Does zero have a value or worth other than simply being one less than one? It would imply "nothing." Life isn't even a necessary part of the equation. On another note, I believe the purpose of life to be helping some bits of energy along their path toward the heat death. I'm not sure that could be seen as meaningful or valuable either, but whatever Edit: Hah, I just now see what you did there.
I put the meaning in my life , don't we each? And isn't saying life has no meaning the same as saying it does...
All I'm saying is the existence of consciousness begs too many questions to simply say there's no higher state or higher being(s).
The fact that there is life on Earth is, for the most part, a freak cosmic accident. The first single celled organisms evolved into a wide variety of complex, diverse multicellular organisms. Eventually primates came into existence, and human beings spawned from them. Let me ask you this- does the life of a Chimpanzee have any intrinsic meaning or value? If the answer is no, then it is ignorant to say that human life is meaningful. There is but one thing separating us humans from other organisms- intelligence. Intelligence has enabled us to master the world around us in just about every conceivable way. However, all the wonders of art, literature, science, and technology combined are incapable of answering the question, "What the fuck are we doing here?" Religion gives us easy answers. That God put us here, and our existence is eternal and sacred. That we are here to serve others and live out his word. As an atheist, this is not satisfying. I believe that in the end, there is no difference between a serial killer and a businessman. An Adolf Hitler and a Ghandi. Everyone is motivated by a number of primal biological instincts that have evolved over the years to be most conducive to the continuation of the parasite that is mankind. Why do you think sex is such a huge reward for our brain's pleasure system? And eating fatty foods? And exercising? All of these things increase our chance of survival, or, in the case of sex and human interaction in general, perpetuating the species. If you are searching for a higher level of meaning in life, breathe a sigh of relief. There isn't one. The best thing you can do in life is find what makes you happy and do it. Try to create the illusion of meaning, for ignorance is bliss.
I can't come to terms with, "we are just a freak cosmic accident." On a grand scale, yes we are just a speck in the universe. But on a conscious level how big are? WE built this! Everything about this! Language, dialects of language, the computer, the internet, etc. I can literally "think" of typing and somehow I can control my body to do exactly just that. Where I type out characters that form words that form sentences that for paragraphs that form ideas, then somehow my thoughts are output onto a screen, then with the push of a button my thoughts are sent to space. Fucking space! then literally seconds later you can see and expand on my thoughts. If none of that means anything, then really what does anything mean? If we can't acknowledge that the wonderful things that we as humans have created, have meaning. Then nothing should have meaning to us.
I find it difficult to say life has no intrinsic value when I view it through it's own lens but I agree 100% on life having no intrinsic meaning. The fact that people disagree about this should be reason enough as to why.
Well you cannot quite compare humans to random specks on a random rock. Its alot more complex then that, otherwise you wouldnt be making this thread on GC philosophy. The question is how relevant is life to the bigger picture. How big does the picture get. If its infinitely big then we are infinitely irrelevant. But that does not make our existence pointless. What does "point of life" mean? The point of life is for life to do whatever it is designed to do, in the same way your computer does what it is designed to do.
haha i was reading this thinking, 'dude i've read this but it was different. why do i have this overwhelming feeling that i had previously thought that this intellectually interesting post sounded butt hurt. i don't get what's going on here.' then i went back to the forum. oh, i said. sometimes you solve the riddle when you stop looking for the answer.
I don't think any answer I (or any human for that matter) muster up will represent any magnitude of the truth. No matter how close we could be to the 'ultimate' answer/meaning, we should remain vigilant to our ignorance and be aware that our authoritative claims to knowledge are severely limited in scope and dimension. When vigilance turns to assertion the 'natural state of consciousness' as you mentioned collapses. If there is any such meaning to sentience, or shall I say any meaning that is meaningful enough for humans, I would speculate for sake of discussion that it might involve the organism's interaction with it's environment. I say this because if you look at the timeline of Life as we know it developing from the most basic constituents of organic compounds here on Earth until now, you see a great telescoping of evolutionary time, at least from the species-perspective of the human. When we reach our present epoch, we see huge leaps of ecological changes, driven by technological advancements in recent decades. What might all this lead up to? The convergence of the biotic (analog) with the abiotic (digital). How would such a neo-evolution effect the natural state of consciousness? What new revolutions in thought would occur? Will such questions in the OP and answers to these questions even be meaningful in that hypothetical context? Again, this is just speculation. Please pick my thoughts apart at will
[quote name='"Serial Bowl"'] I can't come to terms with, "we are just a freak cosmic accident." On a grand scale, yes we are just a speck in the universe. But on a conscious level how big are? WE built this! Everything about this! Language, dialects of language, the computer, the internet, etc. I can literally "think" of typing and somehow I can control my body to do exactly just that. Where I type out characters that form words that form sentences that for paragraphs that form ideas, then somehow my thoughts are output onto a screen, then with the push of a button my thoughts are sent to space. Fucking space! then literally seconds later you can see and expand on my thoughts. If none of that means anything, then really what does anything mean? If we can't acknowledge that the wonderful things that we as humans have created, have meaning. Then nothing should have meaning to us.[/quote] I liked this
we built everything around us to satisfy our boredom, to fill a void. We have no REAL purpose here. You really think the grand scheme of things is just to work in made up companies for made up currency just to buy things to make us not bored?
Life isn't all physical entities, you know? I don't think that the "grand scheme of things, is to work in made up companies for made up currency." If that's what you think life is, then you should be looking at other problems, not whether or not life has a meaning. To go as far as saying "we have no REAL purpose here," is just as ignorant as a hardcore theist saying. "I know there is God." Because no one knows! But we are here today, so why don't we give our own lives meaning? I'd much rather debate the question my whole life and find my own meaning in my life and be happy, than accepting one-side of a never ending debate and assigning no meaning to my life. Because at that point, I don't think you can have happiness without meaning.
[quote name='"Serial Bowl"'] Life isn't all physical entities, you know? I don't think that the "grand scheme of things, is to work in made up companies for made up currency." If that's what you think life is, then you should be looking at other problems, not whether or not life has a meaning. To go as far as saying "we have no REAL purpose here," is just as ignorant as a hardcore theist saying. "I know there is God." Because no one knows! But we are here today, so why don't we give our own lives meaning? I'd much rather debate the question my whole life and find my own meaning in my life and be happy, than accepting one-side of a never ending debate and assigning no meaning to my life. Because at that point, I don't think you can have happiness without meaning.[/quote] What do you mean, "no one knows"? There isn't anything to know- it's really just a matter of opinion. If you have some urge to consider your life to be meaningful, then go right ahead. I will continue to believe that none of this really means anything.
I stated in the OP that meaning and purpose could be possible but how would anyone know? Religion already claims those values but doesn't show any proof for them. What a sane person should do is to consider the magnitude of this existential situation that affects the being in its totality and really go over it a few times. Isn't more rational to expect the answer that its more closely related to reality? Whatever you can observe, measure and analyze? Why jump to such a huge conclusion that is very biased, destructive and hostile? The whole GOD-Absolute Truth business that religions swear by is mass hysteria. Let's try to be honest with ourselves and the people around us, so that we may live more fulfilling and happy lives.
So then allow me to slaughter you. If you don't care, you shall not waste our space, our lives, our feelings, anymore. People like you, who have small hearts, (or one just big enough for themselves and like 4 other people) the ancient Greeks, would have enslaved you. You all, would not have been strong enough as peoples to unite above conditions of poverty or slavery in the ancient world. Today, in the modern world, you are just shells of people, who care for nothing, have barely anything to offer, and in general are not good company.