Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Disclosure:

The statements in this forum have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are generated by non-professional writers. Any products described are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Website Disclosure:

This forum contains general information about diet, health and nutrition. The information is not advice and is not a substitute for advice from a healthcare professional.

Another Tincture Thread - Try it, You'll like it

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by PsychedelicSam, Sep 4, 2012.

  1.  
    Native Americans used the wild plums or cherries I don't remember which as medicine for diabetes & inflammation.  The two are very closely related I know plums are favored in traditional Asian medical systems.  Few argue with moderate intake of whole fresh fruit.  There is less support for the use of juices because we generally are giving up the positive effects of dietary fibers from the flesh and the waxes from the skin of the fruits or other foods we are juicing.
     
    That said dried plums & apples from the trees in my yard caused the flareup that brought fructose to my attention as a cause of gout last year.  I was not eating in moderation.  2/3 of my daily fruit intake since then has been berries, another good source of what you want from the tart cherries and relatively low in fructose.  I brought in about 2 Gal. of fresh Marion-berries this evening, first of the year from my home vineyard.  The Blueberries are still out there waiting for harvest after dinner tonight.

     
  2. #5422 STIGGY, Jul 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2014
    Broke down and took a naproxin (anit imflamatory)
    Foot feels a lil better today  Thanks guys
    Feels like I broke my foot evertime this happens  EXTREMLY painful
    I could only imagine what it would be like to live in this typr of pain with not relief.
    I feel bad for ya Sam, and any other long term sufferer.  (all of us)
    I could not imagine your pain, I hope you scored since last we talked.
     
    Oh and cannabis helps relieve gout pain at night   New finding...............
     
  3.  
    Is it starting to ease up a bit?
     
  4. #5424 STIGGY, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2014
    Yes thanks
    The pain has started to subside as of yesterday
    Now I need to take it easy for a week or so or it will reflare......................
    Im not really 100% sure its gout and not stress fractures either are the so called Docs
     
    One thing I have noticed
    and it is an Important one
    This is the 1st attack I have had since starting to use Med Cannabis (not just for fun when I was much younger LOL)
    And you know what
    This is the shortest attack time that I have ever had.
    It normally lasts 2 weeks or so where I can not or hardly walk at all.
    I now know Med Cannabis is the cure-all of the future
    Now if we can get the Dotors and FDA to admit that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5.  
    Is it down around the big toe, Stihmata, or along the bones in the foot? If so, have a podiatrist check for a bunion that may have been caused by initial bouts with gout. A simple foot xray will tell. Those will get inflammed and cause pain all over your foot. There's a simple surgery to fix that as long as the uric acid count is down. Also, google "bunion" and see if it matches your symptoms. Like I said earlier, once you've been diagnosed with gout, the doctors start blaming everything on that instead of trying to find the solution. A lot of connective tissue inflammation gets blamed on gout. It's an over used diagnosis, like ADD, that really means the doctor doesn't know. 
     
    I find that my topical cream, some ibuprofen and infused coconut oil caps cuts it pretty quick.  :smoking: 
     
  6. #5426 STIGGY, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2014
    Sam The pain comes mostly in the 2 little toe metatarsals bones on rt/foot
    Most of the pain is on top of foot above the lil/toes
    Not in toes at all. that what makes this very strange
    I have had this for over 10 yrs now
    It gets so bad at night (when full blown) cant touch or keep sheet on it  (Ice does help)
     
    Also inst a bunion like a bump that sticks out from the foot and not inside ?
    My feet look like model hands they look perfect no lumps or bumps at all LOL
     
  7.  
    You're thinking about corns. A bunion is on the inside of mainly the big toe at the joint. That joint gets misshapen after some types of trauma like gout, tight shoes, broken bone not healing, lots of things. That is the joint that already juts out from the side of a normal foot. A bunion will be more exaggerated but may not be real noticeable when not inflamed. It can cause inflammation also in those metatarsals. The fact that it's not coming in full blown or lasting as long is a good indication that it is inflammation and not gout. Gout is like you were describing where a breath of air will hurt and it lasts a long time. That's because gout is caused by uric acid crystals that form in the joint. There is no medium ground. Once those crystals form, they are there in all their agony until all the crystals are gone. If you can feel it coming on and then it doesn't get as bad, that's inflammation and not real gout. It may have its origin from the gout injuring the joints but it could be set off by a misstep or run down shoes or other things. 
     
    I've been dealing with the same issues for about 15 years and I'm sure I know more than the doctors, or at least most, about it and the differences. And my feet don't look any different, except when inflamed.  ;) 
     
  8. Thanks much Sam Very detailed
    I am starting to believe as you said , an old gout attack site flaring up.
     
  9. My dad takes black cherry concentrate for his tendonitis, does really well for him.
     
  10. Thanks Nate
    I have been eating fresh cherries everyday and drinking black cherry juice too
     
  11. I'm pleased to say that I am at least getting a little bit accomplished. I just took a sample of the Blue Jewel trim tincture to have tested for the second phase of the natural decarb tincture portion of the Project. The first was tested 2 months ago with no decarb and reduced by natural evaporation. Using the first test as the control, we'll be looking to see if there has been any change in ratio of THC to THCA and CBD to CBDA, etc. I even tried a little before I left and it was a really nice effect. I'll have those results and will post them then. :smoking: 
     
  12. Project Update
     
    One thing that I have just learned is that you definitely need to expect that the testing results that you receive from a lab is going to be goofy. I was willing to accept that the first lab we used was right -science is infallable, right?-and the main problem had been a blending issue by the participant. I had to accept that because I was not in the immediate processing loop, being a thousand miles a way. I didn't want to place all the blame on him but had no other explanation. Sorry, guy. 
     
    Now I know better. I have just gotten the results from my lab on the exact same material that I previously submitted, just 2 months older. All the numbers should have been very close in totals but there were some glaring discrepancies that cannot be answered. As I did with the previous lab's results, i've decided that the graph is the key to consistency and not the numbers only. The graphs will actually show the correct info that can be directly compared to the others instead of trying to make the number match. 
     
    For now I'm going to post the 4 comparisons we're looking at:
    • ​ The original dry material. In this case it is Blue Jewel trim
    •  The tincture control results from the same material with no decarb and natural evaporation with no heat anywhere in the process.
    • The very same tincture after sitting in the cabinet for 2 months.
    • The comparison results from the same batch of tincture but with this half being a heated reduction.
    I'm going to drop this in here and give you a chance to look them over. Even though the numbers are skewed, the graphs are still able to give us some great info concerning extraction rate and increases in THC activation rates in both heated reduction and 8 weeks of aging. I would like to test the GD from the 4th test again to see if the THC had risen as much as the natural after being heated. At initial viewing it seems that if the ratio remained consistent, then the non-decarbed but heated reduction should have been close to full activation by this time. Unfortunately, I didn't have another 80 bucks for another test this month but maybe next month I can squeeze that one in. The one I got today will be submitted again in 2 months. 
     
    Here they are. Take a gander and let me know what you think.  :)
     
    Arid1Control.jpg   Reduction Control.jpg   Natural 2.jpg   Heated reduction1.jpg
     
  13.  
    If he is one of us then I'm sure understands the need for each of us to test and find out for our selves.
    Everyone makes mistakes and two pair of eyes or more seeing the same or similar results validate each other.
     
  14. #5434 STIGGY, Jul 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2014
    Sam when you say trim
    Is that also Fan leaves or just Sugar leaves?
    the THC is low
    The heated reduced sample has hope
    is that just GD reduced to lesser amount before testing?
     
  15. It's a mix of top fan leaf and sugar trim. We're not looking at the total amount of THC, just the difference between THCA and THC over the series of tests. The control is the plant material itself and it shows a fairly high level of cannabinoids. We're looking at the percentage of activation over time, whether it originally had 7% or 27%. There was no sense using prime material just for test purposes, but the whole thing was done exactly like my recipe, just using 10g instead of 7 and reduced by half. I've tried it and it is quite good even though it's not fully decarbed. 
     
    The heated and natural samples were the same batch that I split in half before reduction and they were each reduced by the noted procedures to exactly the same concentration. The natural having no decarb or other heat and the no decarb, heated reduction comparison in meant to show how much decarb is accomplished just by the few minutes of heat. That comparison indicates a significant increase in the THC level and decrease of THCA.
     
    The new results show an even higher percentage of THC conversion than the heated version after 2 months of sitting in a dark cabinet. Because of the good increase in the natural sample, I believe that if I had the heated sample tested again, after the same length of time, that due to the already increased THC conversion from the heat, it may have been fully decarbed.
     
    There are inconsistencies in the values given by the lab but part of that is due to a change in the medium. The plant material values are given as percentages per gram of material but the tincture is measured as milligrams per milliliter. However, there are some missing cannabinoids in the total count even though there's a higher THC value. It's because of that of other previous inconsistencies that I'm using the graphs as comparison instead of just the numbers. The graph shows the changes much better. 
     
    I'll give a little more analysis a little later giving a bit more detail and the significance I place on the results.  :) 
     
  16. This is all starting to make a bit more sense. There's a reason people used the old trusted recipe of long term tincture making, it works. :)
    Decarb surely happens over time and while in solution. That's where I had my doubts, how much did the alcohol slow the natural decarb?

    Here's an slightly related question for you Sam, how does age affect the smoked (or vaped) high? Once your MJ is fully, naturally decarbed, how much quality are we losing with further aging? Because at that point it seems like the THC would start degrading into CBN.

    I've got some stuff that's been sitting around for over a year, airtight, humidity controlled, of course. But is it degrading now?
    I know you don't know the definitive answer to that one... but any thoughts?

    :smoke:
     
  17.  
    We just needed to get a few tests completed to be able to see the trends and unfortunately, I haven't been able to get those moved along as quickly and thoroughly as I would have liked. 
     
    What, you doubted me? Well, actually, I wasn't too sure myself until I saw these results. But there is a part of this series of tests that I still need to do as an offshoot of this. Before this part of the project is completed there will need to be tests using the same parameters but with one being refrigerated instead at room temperature. I think that will take much longer to decarb.
     
    The THC starts degrading while it's still on the plant, so it's going to be a point to take into consideration if you plan a fully natural process. If you look at all the tests, you see that there is no measurable increase in CBN, yet. The control material sample had been harvested and air dried for 2 months at the time of that test. While the others are liquid, there still was no additional degradation to CBN for at least another 2 months and where it goes from there only time will tell. That is one of the questions I have and why I need a good material sample that can give that consistent data. I used all of this material, though, to make the GD so I can't get more dry data from it. 
     
    If you've got that material jarred well, I doubt if it has degraded enough to tell except by test. I'll have a better answer for you when I've had a sample tested for that long, but I do believe there is a point in the aging process when the degradation begins to take on a quicker pace but if stored well, I doubt you'll lose too much.  :) 
     
  18. Is it Ok to store extra spice in freezer in air tite vac bags?
    I wonder how long it would keep, as long as it maintains  constent temp.
     
  19. I just finished some Kush a couple months ago that was in jars for two years. It was getting real dry and crumbly, but the potency seemed the same to me as it had been all along. I didn't start to notice any real change for the first year and a half. I use canning jars, and keep them in a locked safe that is kept at a low humidity level. I bought some Boveda 62 humidipaks this year to try. They seem to keep the herb at a constant level so far. They need to be changed when they get hard, but after two months they still seem the same.
    One thing I have noticed is that it takes about two months in a jar for freshly dried herb to reach full potency. Every strain I've grown so far is the same in that respect.


    Sent from my iPad using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  20.  

    What I really questioned was the science, not being "in the know" I don't have the background to really understand all the how's and whys of decarboxylation. :)



     
    I have also been using canning jars and Boveda packs, stored in a dark place. My oldest stuff though is in a CVault, also with Boveda packs. It's quite the mix, couple grams of this and that, things filed away for some nostalgia later. Durban Poison, GDP, Sour Diesel to name a few. Things I want to be able to experience again later, after the bulk is a long ago memory. So I don't want to wait too long and not enjoy it as much because it's degraded.

    :smoke:
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page