Beginning to think that I dont have enough light on the plants and that would be why they are hardly growing. They keep getting bushier, but are still under 5" tall. I'd think theyd be 8+" tall by now, no? Things were going ok, until I split the bulbs into 2 fixtures. I had been thinking that the 5k lumens per bulb would cover the area quite nicely with 4 bulbs in each fixture, but maybe thats not enough? For the time being, I consolidated back under one fixture and put all 8 bulbs in it. Going to pick up some additional t5ho bulbs tonight to fill out both fixtures completely. btw: intake seems to have been figured out by adding 3 additional 4"x4" cuts in the back wall of the tent spaced out evenly. Ever so slight negative pressure in the room and I can feel the air passively coming in the holes. Now I just need to rig up a filter of some kind to keep bugs/debris out.
Day 32 from Germination Day 18 of 18/6 light cycle Air Temp: 89f Humidity: 45% Nutrient solution measurements: Low-High pH: 5.4-6.18 ppm: 650-720 temp: 83-85f A couple things to note, since adding the exhaust fan, humidity has dropped nearly 20% and air temps remain in the upper 80s. I think i need to try and drop the air temp at least 10 degrees and increase the humidity at least to 55%. Purchasing a small cool-mist humidifier should handle the humidity, but dropping the air temp may prove to be difficult. Still pondering ways to handle that, but open to suggestions. Air temp seems to have increased significantly once we filled out both light fixtures with 8 bulbs each (duh! ). Wondering if the cooling mechanism on the fixtures is not working efficiently enough and if it would be worth purchasing an extra clip-fan or two to point right across the hood towards the exhaust. Also, one plant looks really awful. It has not gotten much worse int he last day and a half, thanks to some suggestions by fellow GC members, but Im not convinced that this particular plant will make it to harvest. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Another forum member suggested also getting some red 2700k bulbs and throwing those in 50% to promote upward growth, as our outward growth seems to be on-par. Couldnt hurt to try, so I will likely pick up some additional bulbs tonight. One other thing that we are considering, is to flip to 12/12 to force our plants to show their sex and then either pulling males out and flipping back to 18/6, or just letting them flower out at this level. Obviously our yield will be sub-par, but we'll be able to identify the females, and then try out cloning them and get a new set of plants starting fresh applying what we've learned over the last few weeks. This way, we take these initial plants through harvest and have another set ready and raring to go... in theory, of course. Attached are the plants as of this morning. Any suggestions? Pictures 2 and 4 are the two plants I'm most concerned about. #2 especially.
Ordered up some flowering bulbs, a filter and a new 4" intake fan. Hopefully it comes in later this week so I can get it all set and flip to flowering. Assuming my new problem gets rectified. Rather than re-hashing all the details, here, below is the URL to the thread about it. I may move some of it into here as well later on. We had a bit of a catastrophe yesterday... still ongoing: http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/1109001-rapid-discoloring-decaying-please-help.html
More updates made in the thread linked in the previous post. Very disheartening so far. Also considering ditching the scrog idea as the plants wouldnt end up too big for the space unless they grow in size by like 5x... and thats for the biggest one. I need to focus on the basics and can worry about advanced techniques after I can keep a plant alive for a full flowering cycle. Looking heavily into building a shared reservoir system for the next grow. Maintaining this many buckets (5 separate nutrient solutions) has been way more of a hassle than its worth. With a shared res, itll be a lot easier to keep each plants nutrient solutions much similar. Just have to figure out how to adjust the grow room to accomodate.
The below update is also in the previously linked thread, but this update is more suitable for the journal, methinks. Well... I think that first plant is going to get pulled tomorrow. It just keeps deteriorating while everyone else looks a little more healthy. That being said, we stumbled across what could be a much more substantial cause to our problems. While setting up my own RO system (I had been mooching off a friend previously) we were working thru 11pm when the lights go off. No biggie, since we're outside of the grow room and its all sealed up. Only the ever so tiniest bit of light shows through the zipper. Only wait... 11pm came and went and I can still tell the lights are one. WTF!!! Somehow, at some point, we must have hit a button on the timer changing it from programmed 18/6 mode to 'On'... aka 24/0. Im willing to bet this happened a week or two ago while changing buckets around. The timer could easily have been bumped while shifting buckets. This happened, my room and nutrient temps jumped, plant grow basically halted and they were just kind of 'treading water' so to speak, and then over-watering when I topped off this weekend pushed them over the edge. All that makes sense, to me at least, as to a root-cause. Except then why did that one plant continue growing so well while the others didnt? Im wondering, since these are from bagseed, if one of them (the healthy one) is some kind of autoflowering strain. Thus, it didnt care what the light cycles were. It just kept on truckin. Anyways, got the timer all fixed up and theyre back on 18/6, so hopefully between that and the better nutrient solution level in the buckets we'll get back on track. ------------------------- Attached a pic of the RO system. Some relatively fancy system (or so it seems) that a buddy of mine got me a deal on. 75gpd 5 step and deionization, along with a pre/post-DI TDS readings. Pre, roughly 13 TDS, post, 0 TDS. Its hooked up to a float valve on a 40g res. Mmmm... RO whenever I need it. Previously, I had been mooching off of the same guy who got me the deal, via filling 5g jugs of water and hauling them from his house to mine. Using the water and repeating this, weekly. Now I have it on-hand 24/7. Yesss!... No more lugging jugs around
New bulbs, inline fan, filter, etc all should arrive tomorrow. Woohoo! Of course, as I do this and learn more, I keep finding ways to (theoretically) improve my grow area setup... only this usually ends up costing me more money and is difficult to change without disrupting the plants' environment. ----------------------------------------- Regarding the issue I'd been having... So, being inquisitive, I went and moved/picked out some of the hydroton from the one plant that is nearly dead to try and get a look at the roots up closer to the stem (the roots seen on the outside of the basket are brown)... and what I found was no bueno. The roots were just brown and smelled like death. Root rot, I assumed. Did some brief research on GC and other sites that all but confirmed my suspicion as the most common causes of root rot seem to be over-watering and high nutrient solution temps... both of which are the case, here. It may or may not have been the reality, but either way, I assumed it so and because this one plant is nothing more than an experiment at this point, I decided to uproot it and see what/if anything could be done. The entire root-mass was brown and was one of the most foul-smelling things Ive ever encountered up close. So, probably foolishly, I ripped off all the seemingly dead roots which basically left me with a stem, some shriveled leaves and the rapid-rooter that originally started the seed. Now, I know that these plants cannot re-gen rotted roots, but I know they 'can' grow new ones. So, in a last-ditch effort to see if its even savable, I then cleaned out the bucket completely, applied new nutrient solution, replanted what is left of the plant into new, freshly rinsed hydroton and added a second airstone to the bucket (had an extra stone and outlet on my pump that had been close/unused previously) Im not expecting anything to happen, and if I cant see signs of new root growth in a couple days Im just going to pull the plant and chalk it up as a learning experience and focus my energy on the plants that are healthy and/or appear to be rebounding from the over-watering.
Its been decided that we will be converting to a RDWC setup. This will allow us to put the res somewhere that the nutrient solution temps stay in a much better range an will allow the space to be adjusted. Once we have all the pieces in place, Ill update again.
Long story short, over-watering and solution temps being too high left us with some root rot. We've lost 3 of 5 plants and the 2 remaining are limping along. Details on the diagnosis/treatment found here: http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/1109001-rapid-discoloring-decaying-please-help.html Tried to get the RDWC set up yesterday, but we're doing a bit of a different system and couldnt get all the fittings/etc that we needed, so its on hold while we procure the rest of the items we need. In the meantime, I snagged a bucket lid from home depot and drilled some holes in it to transform one of my bubble buckets into a bubble cloner (Pic 1). For the time being, I have all of my extra airstones in that bucket (total of 4). I figure the more bubbles being made in there, the better. I had taken two clones a little more than a week ago right when I started seeing some issues. Figured I might as well try my hand at it and see how it goes. Then, I took another one during the middle of this past week. So far, the two original ones have started showing roots. And the most recent clone is showing signs of root development. Yes! (Pic 2). In the wake of that success, I then took 6 more clones off of the varying plants where possible before pulling the 3 that were too far gone. The garden, right now, looks like (Pic 3) Beyond all that, I got my carbon filter set up as well as my intake fan. With the intake fan, Ive closed up the passive intake cuts I had made previously and solely use the intake fan. Theyve been running for about 48hrs now and the air quality inside the room is significantly improved. Previously, it would just feel like stale, hot air and difficult to breathe. Now, it almost seems cool. Temps are about 80-83f with the humidity hovering in the 50% area during the day. At night, I have not checked, but it likely drops into the upper 70s with the lights out. So, lots of good, lots of bad... just gotta roll with it.
The whole grow room is continuing to take shape. I extended the room a foot to the left. This allows me to get both lights up on the workbench, end to end, with plenty fo room for each to breathe. This will let me flower 6-8 plants in 3.5g buckets at any given time. This also opens up the entire underneath of the workbench to be put to better use. I plan on having my res down there for the RDWC setup, more on that later. This will only take up a small portion of my newly opened up space. The rest of the space will be used as a cloning/short veg/mother chamber. I grabbed another bucket lid, some 2" netpots and foam inserts to use for cloning to make a much better bubbler cloner. The lid I made yesterday wasnt all that great since I still had each clone in the rapid-rooter and hydroton. Still makes it a pain to see how the clones are going down at the roots when the roots are covered up. With the new lid, I can just lift up the lid and see the bottoms of each clone. Here is a crude mock-up of how my RDWC system will be, only showing one bucket. I have a friend helping me with the setup/design of the system since he does this kind of stuff all day long with aquariums. Once its all set up and working, Ill get some pics of the whole setup. Its quite different now than when I last posted. The intake hose will pump up from the res to a 'T' that will be right smack in the middle of the workbench. Then, to the left and right it will 'T' off into each individual bucket probably just below the handle. Each bucket will also have a valve that can be adjusted to maintain even water flow amongst them all. This will also allow me to shut off the valve for an individual bucket and remove it completely for cleaning or special treatment if needed. The drain will be near the bottom of the bucket and drain right to the res, but will feature a 90deg elbow with stand-pipe on it. What this does is allows me to control the water height by merely lengthening or shortening the stand pipe. This also allows for each bucket to have a different water level, just in case plants are growing faster/slower than others. Ive already tested the pump that I will be using, and at a rise equal to what I am doing, the water drains just as fast as it gets dumped into the bucket. Since it will be 'T'd off from there, the water flow will never be equal to the test (will always be less), I should not need to worry about overflow. The res is also large enough to hold 100% of the water from each bucket plus what would normally be in the res. No need to worry about water getting where it shouldnt be due to power outage/overflow. Of course, you always run the risk of a seal bursting or something, but you just need to deal with those issues as they come. Also, having the res below allows me to only punch holes in the lid of the res rather than adding more fittings/etc to the side of the res. Less potential leaks/blowouts.
TLDR Cliffs: Description of setup, climate is a lot better and plants starting to rebound. Pics attached. So, as noted last night, the RDWC is up and running. 16+hrs now with no issues yet. The res sits underneath my workbench and pumps water up to a 'T' which branches out left and right, 3 buckets on each side. Each bucket has an inlet right below the handle and inside is a 90deg elbow to push the water up along the wall instead of dropping straight down. Each bucket also has an air stone and the res currently has 2 stones Slightly off-center from the inlet is a drain outlet right at the bottom of the bucket. On the inside of the drain outlet is another 90deg elbow. Attached to the elbow is a 2.5" piece of hose with a screen stuck in the opposite end. What this allows me to do is have the stand pipe inside the bucket determine where my water height is. By swiveling the 90deg elbow around I can adjust the water level anywhere from 1" from the bottom to about an inch above the bottom of the net pot. I actually did a bit more work after these pictures. I cleaned up some of the slack in the lines by trimming the hose to make everything more snug. I also added a valve for each bucket between the 'T' and the inlet. This way, I can turn off one bucket at a time to remove for maintenance/etc, or to isolate one plant for special treatment. The addition of an intake fan and closure of the passive intakes, plus the addition of the carbon filter, the rdwc and being able to turn up the exhaust fan has made the entire environment inside the tent MUCH more stabilized. Air temp hovers around 80f with humidity in the mid 50s%. Moving the res below and having the water recirculating leaves the water temps at 73-74f, which is a vast improvement from the 82+ i was seeing previously. The pH is a bit high right now at 7.0 but I ran out of pH+/- last night and need to pick more up on my way home this morning. Takes quite a bit more of it to adjust 20g up and down than it does 2g, haha. Now I just need to get my hands on another hanging kit for the second light so I can clean up that side of the room a bit. I'll alos be closing off the lower-right section to be used for cloning/mother plant. These will be sustained with the original 3ft T5HO 4 bulb setup I had been using. That should be sufficient for clones/mother. Right now, all I have in the res is RapidStart and Hygrozyme. Letting the plants quasi-flush with this solution for a few days. Last, but certainly not least, the 2 plants I have left after my catastrophe are both rebounding. For the first time in over a week, the once-big plant had its top two sets of leaves perked up this morning when I checked. It seems to be enjoying the quasi-flush and the root system has seen dramatic improvement even since last night (the pic is from last night and looks significantly better this morning). Really liking the effects of rdwc so far.
Looking good man, RDWC is where it is at. Dealing with one res instead of multiple buckets is so much easier.
Thanks! Hasnt even been 24hrs and its already easier, haha. Im considering putting a float-valve in the solution res, too, to top it off right from my RO res, too. Now if only I could manage to not track dirt/sand into the room. Not much I can do about it with a field-stone basement. Im lucky that I got the room sealed up and can control the climate in there.
So last night my temps were all out of whack again at 80f, and the cloudy mess that was my good plant's roots clogged up a little bit of the system So, I cleaned it all out and started over fresh again. Only this time, I swapped my intake and my drain hoses and flipped to a flood&drain timing. Effectively, I swapped it over to be ebb&grow style. 20min on, 2hrs off during daytime, off completely during dark time. By swapping the hoses, what was my drain line now becomes my overflow drain. The intake moves to the bottom, but then when the pump goes off, the water just drains back through the intake line. the overflow is there to prevent.. well... overflows. I havent gone through an entire dark period yet, but overall Im liking how its all going. It fills in about 5min and drains in about 5min. The plants seem to have taken well to it, i can just tell. Also, I cleaned up my line lengths, and my flex ducting to be a little more efficient and you can notice the difference in the air quality/movement within the room. Temp/Humidity hovered at 78f/55% all day. The Res temps also dropped to anywhere between 72-74f. HUGE improvement, here. Also got the pH relatively steady in the upper 5's. Hopefully theyll finally bounce back and some of the clones will move along so I can relax a little bit. I feel like the last two weeks has been non-stop changes/troubleshooting. Im sure it stressed the shit out of my plants, too.
Three straight days of nearly no fluctuation in the environment. Thank jeebus thats finally sorted out. Now I can finally focus on the actual growing. That being said, only one of the clones I took last week formed roots so far. Theres really only one other one that looks like it might still have a chance. Of the initial clones that I had taken (now 2 weeks ago), one looks like it has begun making new growth. No roots showing out the net-pot yet, but hopefully soon. The other is still up in the air. Doesnt look to strong right now, but we've got time still. About the other two plants... that are survivors of the root rot epidemic. The larger one is slowly showing a little more white/healthy roots. Slowly. Jury's still out on if this one will make it or if I'll just take cuttings from it to start clones and scrap it. Will depend on how quickly the other clones etc take shape and if I need the bucket for a younger/healthier plant. The other survivor plant isnt showing roots out the net pot, either, but it has started a little bit of new growth. So, things are looking up. Last, I found a seed in a baggy that is, supposedly, Grand Daddy Purps. So, I decided to germ that one, and started germing 6 other seeds along with it. I figure between the clones and the random seeds I can probably come away with 6 new plants to grow and flower.
Really wish I could alter the title of this thread. Seeing as its no longer DWC, or RDWC, really... its more like Ebb&Grow with the flood timings. Im also not sure that Ill be doing scrog anymore. As it is, we have about 3ft of space available for plant height. So, if we flip to 12/12 when the plants are roughly 8-10inches, we'll probably be alright with a little LST and/or Supercropping. This is, at least, until we get our feet under us just growing. Once we have a handle on that, we can revisit more advanced training techniques. 2 of the 7 seeds planted 9/30 have cracked their shells and the taproots are making their way south in the rapid rooters. Sadly, the GDP is not one of them. Also started working on my clone/mother chamber with the initial set of 3ft T5HOs that we had been using in the earlier stages. It is within the same room, but I am enclosing the bottom right-hand corner. The only light that leaks is around the edges of the 'door' I had to create so thatd I'd be able to get in/out of the new/little space. To create the 'door' I covered the entire opening with my panda film and then cut an opening in it roughly 6" inward from each edge. Then, did the same with another piece the same size, but cut it at the actual perimeter and attached velcro to the 4 corners to hold it in place. I had built in some flaps on the inner side of the door (via the smaller cut) to make some form of overlap, but the light still bounces out. I feel like if I add another set of flaps on the outside of the removable piece I will likely be in business. Last, but certainly not least, ordered up some seeds from attitude. 2x Barneys Farms LSD (Fem) 2x Barneys Tangerine Dream (Fem) 1x Reserva Prada OG Kush (Fem - Freebie) 1x DNA Genetics Cannalope Kush (Fem - Freebie) These seeds will simply be on the shelf until Im ready to plant another set of seeds and/or the current crop doesnt pan out. Ideally, I'll take each one and make a few clones of each and veg them in the clone/mother chamber, then come harvest/smoke, choose the two I liked best to keep as mothers. Depending on how far along my current crop is when the seeds arrive, I may even just scrap and start over with the fem'd seeds with a new journal.
Havent done an update in a while, but as of Friday morning, only 1 clone was left standing and 2 of my bagseeds have popped. One is about 1in tall already and the other is just barely poking its head out above the rapid rooter. Both of my recovering survivor plants have started showin new growth, but root growth below the net pots has not been see, yet, on one of them. Im really anxious to see how it all looks when I get home on Monday. Away for the Columbus Day weekend with family/friends. Just hoping my buddy keeps things under control while Im gone. Told him all I needed him to do was monitor the seedlings and water if the rooters were very dry and to keep track of the pH in the res. Havent received my seeds from attitude yet.