My Water Only Mix - Thoughts?

Hey blades,

I've been wanting to create an all organic, water-only soil mix for a while but haven't had the space. I'm moving into a new place soon so that won't be an issue anymore, which is why I'm making this mix now. So on to the question - what does everyone think of this mix?

Basic Soil Mix (1.5ft^3 total):
40% Peat Moss
35% EWC
25% Perlite

Amendments:
1 cup Meal Mix (equal parts bone, blood, kelp and alfalfa meal)
1 cup Dolomite lime

I plan on mixing this all up and letting it sit for ~5 weeks then transplanting into it once my girls (Jack Herer x C99) are done with a 2-3 week veg (from rooted clone). They will originally be vegging in Roots Organic with some dolomite added to regulate pH. 1 gal pots for veg and 5 gal for flower

Thoughts on all of this?

Edited by cripes0103, 13 July 2012 - 12:35 AM.

You can sometimes mix all necessary ferts into the soil when vegging because low nutrient levels won't affect bud growth during flowering. If the food supply doesn't drop far enough to cause leaf damage, the only worry is slower growth.

When flowering, however, the plants need increasingly higher nutrient levels and providing too little can cause lower yields, at the very least. If you mix as much food into the soil as the plants can handle at the start of flowering, the nutrient levels in the soil will be insufficient by the time (or more likely, long before) they've doubled in size and are trying to grow flowers everywhere.

If you mix as much food into the soil as the plants can handle at the start of flowering, the nutrient levels in the soil will be insufficient by the time (or more likely, long before) they've doubled in size and are trying to grow flowers everywhere.

You're saying here that if you mix as much nutrients into the soil as the plants can handle that the plants will use it all up and essentially starve or at least be looking for more by the time theyve doubled in size?

How is it, then, that with occasional topdressings, I am now flowering the 10th plants in the very same pots of soil as Plant No. 1 was in, and that they are in fact thriving and definetly not looking for additional nutrition?

Plants definetly do not need as much nutrition as many here think they do. A very little goes a very long ways and lasts a long time.

Just my thoughts. Carry on.

j

How is it, then, that with occasional topdressings, I am now flowering the 10th plants in the very same pots of soil as Plant No. 1 was in, j

Do you recompost everything or take one plant out and drop the next one in?

Well I'm glad I'm not on the complete wrong track by thinking I can make a water only mix, but what does everyone think about it? Are my proportions right? Am I missing something? Am I adding anything unnecessary?

If you mix as much food into the soil as the plants can handle

How do you know how much the plant can handle?

Is there a different means of measuring this for a 2' plant and a 6' plant?

Just curious.

Cripes
Can you get any of the following:
neem meal
crab shell meal
oyster flour, arragonite, chicken scratch (all the same)
azomite, glacial rock dust, basalt dust, etc.

Using only what you've got on hand I would double up the meal mix, but I would suggest some different proportions if you scored any of the stuff above. Here's an old post on amending that keeps it simple:


"I use 3 mixes to keep things straight in my old brain. They are as follows:

1. Food Mix
2. Fix-It Mix
3. Mineral Mix

Food Mix

You want about 2 cups of your food mix - however you get there. You're going to use alfalfa meal, fish meal and bone meal. Mix up a large amount with equal parts (by volume and not by weight) and add 2 cups of this mix to your soil.

If you were to decide that you wanted to add canola meal (aka rape seed meal), flax seed meal (aka linseed meal), et al. then add the same volume amount of this to your mix but you're still only going to use 2 cups of the final mix. The total amount that you want to use does not increase - you're simply making your Food Mix more diverse (a worthy goal, IMHO)

Fix-It Mix

You're using kelp meal and a combination of the neem and karanja meals. Again mix these in equal amounts (by volume) and add 1 - 1.5 cups of this mix to your potting soil. If you were to add crab meal (another good Fix-It component) you would still add the same amount even with the addition of another agent, i.e 1 - 1.5 cups.

Mineral Mix

You're using Azomite and Green Sand - mix these together like the other mixes and of this mix you'd want to add about 1 cup to your potting soil. If you were to add Limestone (or Oyster Shell Powder) and agricultural Gypsum (both available at Home Depot, BTW) you'd add these minerals by the same volume but you'd still only use 1 cup of however a diverse mix you might come up with.

Glacial Rock Dust is different and its application rate is 1 cup to 1 c.f. of potting irrespective of the other minerals you decide to go with.

All the amounts above on all of the mixes are for 1 c.f. of potting soil or 7.5 gallons (allegedly)" ---Lumperdawgz

Do you recompost everything or take one plant out and drop the next one in?

Astro, the same day a plant is harvested a 1 gallon size hole is dug, a handful of ewc's is dropped in and a new, vegging 1 gallon plant is dropped into this hole. All done.

When I think about it I top dress with whatever's handy at the time.

The theory behind no till and the way that it works so well is that all your fungus & microbes are already well established in your container or garden - afai concerned, re-composting would be detrimental to a no till setup.

I mean, whatever it takes to reuse your soil, but the no till method is proving itself to me tremendously. I'm gonna be planting #11 soon into the same pots of soil as plant #1 heading towards a year and a half ago now.

Talk about saving money too! I don't spend a darn cent anymore *lol*

j

Cripes - listen to Hap, man.

J

Astro, the same day a plant is harvested a 1 gallon size hole is dug, a handful of ewc's is dropped in and a new, vegging 1 gallon plant is dropped into this hole. All done.

When I think about it I top dress with whatever's handy at the time.

The theory behind no till and the way that it works so well is that all your fungus & microbes are already well established in your container or garden - afai concerned, re-composting would be detrimental to a no till setup.

I mean, whatever it takes to reuse your soil, but the no till method is proving itself to me tremendously. I'm gonna be planting #11 soon into the same pots of soil as plant #1 heading towards a year and a half ago now.

Talk about saving money too! I don't spend a darn cent anymore *lol*

j

I had heard the no till method before but I didn't understand the depth of it. This sounds good to me, but one question:wouldn't the presence of the old roots choke up or bind the new root growth in some way?

The billions of microbes in the pots take care of the old roots very quickly. They just disappear. I just keep top dressing with kelp, fish, comfrey, castings - you name it. That keeps everything going back in that gets used.

J

Awesome, thank you for all the information. Sounds like I've gotta go on another shopping trip!

I have a couple questions though:

1)I didn't see blood meal mention anywhere in that post. Should I skip the blood meal, substitute it for something else, or just keep it and add it to my mix?

2) Where is the easiest place to source neem meal and karanja meal? There are a bunch of nurseries around me, is that a good place to look? Or am I going to have to try online or something?

Edited by cripes0103, 14 July 2012 - 06:17 PM.

Awesome, thank you for all the information. Sounds like I've gotta go on another shopping trip!

I have a couple questions though:

1)I didn't see blood meal mention anywhere in that post. Should I skip the blood meal, substitute it for something else, or just keep it and add it to my mix?

2) Where is the easiest place to source neem meal and karanja meal? There are a bunch of nurseries around me, is that a good place to look? Or am I going to have to try online or something?

Right here Neem, Neem Oil, Karanja Oil, Neem & Karanja products . Quality product with reasonable pricing.

Best,

Sam

I'm assuming I just grind up the neem and karanja cakes to make a meal and mix it in?

Neem and/or Karanja "cake" is just another name for meal. They are already ground and ready for use.

Last night I used neem oil from Ahimsa - the online place that Sam directed you to. The product is as good as it gets and thier prices are very reasonable. I had planted 2 peach trees in my yard this spring, and the bugs have been attacking the leaves, so I mixed up the standard neem oil/liquid silica/aloe foliar spray and hit them hard. I hit my pepper plants while I had it out.

Neem meal/cake is not only a superb insecticide/pesticide but it's also a Dynamic Accumulator and is loaded with organic nutritional goodness.

J

Awesome, sounds like I've gotta put in an order today. The other stuff seems like it would be available at one of my local nurseries.

For Blood Meal should I just add it to the "food mix" in equal proportions to everything else?

Anyone have any input on the blood meal matter?

I don't use it myself, so can't really comment, but others do, very high in "N".

Just kinda grosses me out. I don't feel it's necessary so I leave it out. It's definetly your choice.

J

It's fine if you want to use it as part of your food mix. A lot of people avoid it because it's a by-product of factory farms. Reconstitute some if you want a little gross out.

Well, I already bought it before I realized I needed to completely retool my mix so I guess I'll add it. Looks like all I need now is some glacial rock dust, azomite, neem meal and karanja meal, all of which I think I'm gonna have to order online