Organic Soil Help!

Hey all, I'm a first time grower, and I haven't quite gotten my soil mixture's nutrient levels down, haven't been able to put any of my germinated seeds into it without burning them... If someone could give me a good general use mix of how much of these fertilizers I should be adding to my soil that'd be great~

Also, I seem to have conflicting reports from books/online. Some say that after the first root is double the seed length, I can place it directly into the medium I'm going to grow it in - is that correct? I've found other reports that say to place it in regular soil as a seedling and place it into the more fertile soil when it is nearing vegetative growth ? A clarification would be greatly appreciated ^^


So anyway, for my soil I've got one bag of each of these:

Miracle Grow Organic Blood Meal (12 : 0 : 0)
MG Organic Bone Meal (6 : 9 : 0) with 7% Calcium
High Potassium Bat Guano (1 : 10 : 1)
Organic Agriculture Lime (Ca/Mg/pH+)
Greensand (0 : 0 : 0.1)

Used up the first bag of soil I bought, but any suggestions on what to look for for the soil base would be helpful too.
I've been trying to pick up some worm castings from my hydro shop, but they haven't had them come in for a bit, so hopefully I'll be able to grab a hold of some of those as well.

I'm planning to do a 2-4 plant grow in a 2.5'x2.5'x5' box, as seen in my other thread:
http://forum.grassci...ml#post15154166

Any help someone could give me for my soil mixture would be excellent, as well as when/how to fertilize if I need, although I was trying to make a "water-only" type of grow soil if at all possible.


P.S. Saw something about borax powder as a supplement - does this mean the white borax used to kill ants/roaches? And is this safe for the plants? Seems a little sketchy

Edited by CripConnoisseur, 11 July 2012 - 04:14 AM.
Forgot something

I used a peat moss and perlite mix for the first 3 weeks of growth or so. No nutrients at all, just water.
Then I slowly added some nitrogen via blood meal.

I think most would say nutrient free at the very start.

I used a peat moss and perlite mix for the first 3 weeks of growth or so. No nutrients at all, just water.
Then I slowly added some nitrogen via blood meal.

I think most would say nutrient free at the very start.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind thank you.

I was wondering if anyone could help me do something as far as the actually measurements of fertilizer to soil ratio etc.
I was looking around on this site:
Great Soil Recipes For Mixing Great Soil For Your Marijuana Plants
So my mix ingredients are based roughly off what I saw here, any help with small scale measurements would be awesome

I used a peat moss and perlite mix for the first 3 weeks of growth or so. No nutrients at all, just water.
Then I slowly added some nitrogen via blood meal.

I think most would say nutrient free at the very start.

Not true - however, it DOES need to sit for 3-4 weeks after mixing to allow the soil microbes time to "nutrient cycle" the organic soil amendments.

Ditch the Miracle Grow Bone Meal.
Ditch the Miracle Grow Blood Meal.
Greensand takes years to break down.
Where is your humus ie: compost or castings?

You need to read about mixing a soil properly. You'll be glad you took the time - read here:

http://forum.grassci...l-mix-mine.html

Hth

Btw, stay away from ALL MG products - they are owned by Monsanto - The Antichrist Company. Very, very, very bad people. Read about them here - http://forum.grassci...-up-sticky.html

Tell all your friends to stay the hell away from MG/Scott's products too. Those people are pure evil.

J

Not true - however, it DOES need to sit for 3-4 weeks after mixing to allow the soil microbes time to "nutrient cycle" the organic soil amendments.

Ditch the Miracle Grow Bone Meal.
Ditch the Miracle Grow Blood Meal.
Greensand takes years to break down.
Where is your humus ie: compost or castings?

You need to read about mixing a soil properly. You'll be glad you took the time - read here:

http://forum.grassci...l-mix-mine.html

Hth

Btw, stay away from ALL MG products - they are owned by Monsanto - The Antichrist Company. Very, very, very bad people. Read about them here - http://forum.grassci...-up-sticky.html

Tell all your friends to stay the hell away from MG/Scott's products too. Those people are pure evil.

J

Greensand was to help with water retention and even irrigation. But yeah i figured I'd be getting an earful about the MG products, just thought it might be worth a shot, Im kind of on a budget~ cant afford the expensive stuff. And like i mentioned earlier, i've been waiting for my hydro shop to get their worm casting shipment in so i could get some. One day when i've got a bit of funds saved and a bit more space i was gonna try making my own compost and working with that (all i need is one of those outdoor compost bin things right ?)

CC,
Not sure if you have tried Craigslist yet, but I'd be checking there first before I waited for the hydro shop to get some sub par castings. Being on a budget as well, you'll probably find a better price on craigslist. Just my .02c

E

Greensand was to help with water retention and even irrigation. But yeah i figured I'd be getting an earful about the MG products, just thought it might be worth a shot, Im kind of on a budget~ cant afford the expensive stuff. And like i mentioned earlier, i've been waiting for my hydro shop to get their worm casting shipment in so i could get some. One day when i've got a bit of funds saved and a bit more space i was gonna try making my own compost and working with that (all i need is one of those outdoor compost bin things right ?)

How about this for cheap money and 100% better than what you've listed:

Pro-Mix or Sunshine Mix - I don't remember exactly how much it is but let's call this $20. This is mostly sphagnum peat moss with a little bit of perlite mixed in.

Bagged compost from your local nursery - let's call this seven or eight dollars a bag for good compost.

One 5 pound bag of Epsoma organic dry blended fertilizer - let's call this $10.

One 5 pound bag of Epsoma kelp meal - let's call this $10 too.

Take Elvis's advice and try and source earthworm castings on Craigslist. Chances are you can find your compost on there - good compost,for next to nothing.

That's it - you're done. With these items you can make a fantastic homemade soil mix - the real deal. how much did that total out at? $60-$75 maximum? You can barely buy a quarter of good nuggets for that much.

if you're actually interested, and feel like doing a little bit of labor to source these items that I've listed then go ahead and source the items, get them together, and then get back to me and I'll help you build a mix with these items that we'll all be proud of and will grow you buds like I know you badly want to.

Peace.

J

CC,
Not sure if you have tried Craigslist yet, but I'd be checking there first before I waited for the hydro shop to get some sub par castings. Being on a budget as well, you'll probably find a better price on craigslist. Just my .02c

E

I haven't yet, that sounds like a great idea, but as I'm on an island (Oahu) I may be rather limited in selection, although I imagine there must be some local farmers who post stuff like that on Craig's. Thanks for the tip!

How about this for cheap money and 100% better than what you've listed:

Pro-Mix or Sunshine Mix - I don't remember exactly how much it is but let's call this $20. This is mostly sphagnum peat moss with a little bit of perlite mixed in.

Bagged compost from your local nursery - let's call this seven or eight dollars a bag for good compost.

One 5 pound bag of Epsoma organic dry blended fertilizer - let's call this $10.

One 5 pound bag of Epsoma kelp meal - let's call this $10 too.

Take Elvis's advice and try and source earthworm castings on Craigslist. Chances are you can find your compost on there - good compost,for next to nothing.

That's it - you're done. With these items you can make a fantastic homemade soil mix - the real deal. how much did that total out at? $60-$75 maximum? You can barely buy a quarter of good nuggets for that much.

if you're actually interested, and feel like doing a little bit of labor to source these items that I've listed then go ahead and source the items, get them together, and then get back to me and I'll help you build a mix with these items that we'll all be proud of and will grow you buds like I know you badly want to.

Peace.

J

What's the dry blended fertilizer supposed to be ? Is that what the product's name is?
I'll keep an eye out for all those things. I'm located in Oahu, Hawaii, so I don't get a lot of the easy to access stuff you guys on the mainland have from like Lowes and stuff. I searched all the major home improvement stores to find the crappy stuff that I bought, so hopefully I'll get lucky and come across some quality somewhere. The hydro shop I went to seems to be pretty well stocked and knowledgeable but theyre full of those expensive bottles of fert and stuff, don't seem to have much for cheap
I recently totaled my car, so my grow box/grow light purchase has been delayed for awhile, but I'm gonna keep trying to find the right ingredients before I get started anyway. Thanks for your help, I saw & subbed to your organic grow log J~

Yes, the brand is epsoma, and they have a few diff mixes.. Look for the plant or tomato tone I believe, and check w lowes/hd, in my neck of the woods those places stock their products.

Good luck CC!! Idk how much grow experience you have but if I give one piece of advice, it would be to read read read. Take it all in and just give it a shot! You'll be so surprised how easy it all is once you put what you're learning to work.

What's the dry blended fertilizer supposed to be ? Is that what the product's name is?
I'll keep an eye out for all those things. I'm located in Oahu, Hawaii, so I don't get a lot of the easy to access stuff you guys on the mainland have from like Lowes and stuff. I searched all the major home improvement stores to find the crappy stuff that I bought, so hopefully I'll get lucky and come across some quality somewhere. The hydro shop I went to seems to be pretty well stocked and knowledgeable but theyre full of those expensive bottles of fert and stuff, don't seem to have much for cheap
I recently totaled my car, so my grow box/grow light purchase has been delayed for awhile, but I'm gonna keep trying to find the right ingredients before I get started anyway. Thanks for your help, I saw & subbed to your organic grow log J~

Wheres Seandawg when ya need him?

I just looked and I dont believe that they carry Epsoma brand in HI. Im kinda hoping that SD will chime in here?

Check this out, tho - this looked pretty cool...This is the University of Hawaii - Oahu Urban Garden Center Cooperative Extension Service - To continuously and consistently provide innovative and diverse horticultural information to the gardening public.

I mean, look at this coming weekends lineup...*lol*

July 14, 2012 9:00 am - 12:00 pm
Organic Container Gardening
Composting with worms, companion planting and more!
Live Garden Demonstrations! ongoing, 9am -12pm. Learn about:
1. Worm Composting (Big Worm Bin Area)
2. Composting (Composting Area)
3. Organic Container Gardening (Classroom, see below for details)
4. Companion Planting (Vegetable Idea Garden and Herb Garden)

Organic Container Gardening Class!
Location: UGC Classroom, $5 donation to the program
Time: 9:30AM-10:30AM, repeat session at 10:45AM-11:45AM

And then the following week -

August 11, 2012 9:00 am - 12:00 pm
Integrated Pest Management
Common Insect, Pest & Diseases ID and Environmentally Sound Management Solutions!


If I were you I'd be all over this? Is it close to you?

Look here - Oahu Urban Garden Center

I'd be jumping all over this.

j

Edited by jerry111165, 11 July 2012 - 10:52 PM.

Yes, the brand is epsoma, and they have a few diff mixes.. Look for the plant or tomato tone I believe, and check w lowes/hd, in my neck of the woods those places stock their products.

Good luck CC!! Idk how much grow experience you have but if I give one piece of advice, it would be to read read read. Take it all in and just give it a shot! You'll be so surprised how easy it all is once you put what you're learning to work.

Ahh I think I might have seen those at Lowes now that I think about it, HD was freakishly limited in supply when I stopped by (and theyre literally like half a block apart from each other, so it seems Lowes is taking over)

Yeah, definitely, I've just started my GC forum thingy to get some help with things like this, and I've been reading Greg Green's "The Cannabis Grow Bible" from cover to cover with notes/highlights to try and get this right. Weed isn't quite my life, but its definitely my hobby. It's my first time growing, so I want things to work out well, especially since I only have a couple more trial seeds (sack seeds) before the ones I got from The Attitude. I've burnt probably like 6 or 7 germ'd seeds with this ridiculous ratio'd soil I messed up (I got 1% and 10% mixed up for some reason) So I want to fix my medium before I start trying to germ any more seeds & get my box/light set up

Thanks for the help!

Wheres Seandawg when ya need him?

I just looked and I dont believe that they carry Epsoma brand in HI. Im kinda hoping that SD will chime in here?

Check this out, tho - this looked pretty cool...This is the University of Hawaii - Oahu Urban Garden Center Cooperative Extension Service - To continuously and consistently provide innovative and diverse horticultural information to the gardening public.

I mean, look at this coming weekends lineup...*lol*

July 14, 2012 9:00 am - 12:00 pm
Organic Container Gardening
Composting with worms, companion planting and more!
Live Garden Demonstrations! ongoing, 9am -12pm. Learn about:
1. Worm Composting (Big Worm Bin Area)
2. Composting (Composting Area)
3. Organic Container Gardening (Classroom, see below for details)
4. Companion Planting (Vegetable Idea Garden and Herb Garden)

Organic Container Gardening Class!
Location: UGC Classroom, $5 donation to the program
Time: 9:30AM-10:30AM, repeat session at 10:45AM-11:45AM

And then the following week -

August 11, 2012 9:00 am - 12:00 pm
Integrated Pest Management
Common Insect, Pest & Diseases ID and Environmentally Sound Management Solutions!


If I were you I'd be all over this? Is it close to you?

Look here - Oahu Urban Garden Center

I'd be jumping all over this.

j

Woah, excellent, I'll definitely be hitting that up, thanks for the find Jerry~
Nothing is too far in Hawaii, whole island is only like 60mi around. All the way around only takes 3 or 4 hours at the most by car.

I saw some Epsoma stuff at Lowes, thats the brand for the greensand and lime I've got. Dont remember if I saw those products though

I've never grown any kind of plant in my life really, so this will be a first, but I'm pretty well read and my old hook taught me a lot of things while I was chillin with him.

Then let's get you started! You really ought to check out the University Extension classes - for 5 bucks you'll come out with a thousand in valuable info. It looks really cool.

At least take a look around and see what you can find out of the list I just gave you. Keep me posted.

J

Then let's get you started! You really ought to check out the University Extension classes - for 5 bucks you'll come out with a thousand in valuable info. It looks really cool.

At least take a look around and see what you can find out of the list I just gave you. Keep me posted.

J

Will do for sure!
Thanks for all your help~

Wheres Seandawg when ya need him?

I just looked and I dont believe that they carry Epsoma brand in HI. Im kinda hoping that SD will chime in here?

Check this out, tho - this looked pretty cool...This is the University of Hawaii - Oahu Urban Garden Center Cooperative Extension Service - To continuously and consistently provide innovative and diverse horticultural information to the gardening public.

I mean, look at this coming weekends lineup...*lol*

July 14, 2012 9:00 am - 12:00 pm
Organic Container Gardening
Composting with worms, companion planting and more!
Live Garden Demonstrations! ongoing, 9am -12pm. Learn about:
1. Worm Composting (Big Worm Bin Area)
2. Composting (Composting Area)
3. Organic Container Gardening (Classroom, see below for details)
4. Companion Planting (Vegetable Idea Garden and Herb Garden)

Organic Container Gardening Class!
Location: UGC Classroom, $5 donation to the program
Time: 9:30AM-10:30AM, repeat session at 10:45AM-11:45AM

And then the following week -

August 11, 2012 9:00 am - 12:00 pm
Integrated Pest Management
Common Insect, Pest & Diseases ID and Environmentally Sound Management Solutions!


If I were you I'd be all over this? Is it close to you?

Look here - Oahu Urban Garden Center

I'd be jumping all over this.

j

You rang?

Ok give me a sec to read through this and I'll jump in

OK here we go...

Sunshine mix #4 - about $35 for a bail, from "pacific ag" i think in cambells (best price i've seen so far.
Or you can get Peat Moss at home depot also
Black volcanic rock for aeration - $4, from any home depot
Compost - Menehune Magic (last resort)
You could also try to check on craigslist for people selling worms / worm cast. but dont expect the best product.

Lime - $20 - $40 for a 50# bag of "Ag lime" from home depot. Get the big green bag. This particular "ag lime" is actually made from Coral. Which is by far the best type of liming agent available. LINK HERE!!!!! to see some of the nutritional benefits of coral.

For your organic amendments n such go to Ohana Green House. I am not sure what part of the island you're from but i go to the one in honolulu. Ohana Greenhouse & Garden Supply.
They have a lot of different kinds of soil amendments available there.
Neem meal - $75 for a 50# bag. (good luck finding it any where else on the island.)
Kelp meal - $6 for like 2# or so.
Alfalfa meal - $20 for like 25#
You can also get Soft Rock Phosphate and other stuff there also.
Tell them that "Sean" sent you. Tell em the haole guy from waianae. And they'll help you out.

You should also go to Ko'olau farmers I think its near hawaiian memorial park or something like that.
That is the only place I've found Crab meal.

Im not sure what else you could be looking for but i hope that helps
SD

OK here we go...

Sunshine mix #4 - about $35 for a bail, from "pacific ag" i think in cambells (best price i've seen so far.
Or you can get Peat Moss at home depot also
Black volcanic rock for aeration - $4, from any home depot
Compost - Menehune Magic (last resort)
You could also try to check on craigslist for people selling worms / worm cast. but dont expect the best product.

Lime - $20 - $40 for a 50# bag of "Ag lime" from home depot. Get the big green bag. This particular "ag lime" is actually made from Coral. Which is by far the best type of liming agent available. LINK HERE!!!!! to see some of the nutritional benefits of coral.

For your organic amendments n such go to Ohana Green House. I am not sure what part of the island you're from but i go to the one in honolulu. Ohana Greenhouse & Garden Supply.
They have a lot of different kinds of soil amendments available there.
Neem meal - $75 for a 50# bag. (good luck finding it any where else on the island.)
Kelp meal - $6 for like 2# or so.
Alfalfa meal - $20 for like 25#
You can also get Soft Rock Phosphate and other stuff there also.
Tell them that "Sean" sent you. Tell em the haole guy from waianae. And they'll help you out.

You should also go to Ko'olau farmers I think its near hawaiian memorial park or something like that.
That is the only place I've found Crab meal.

Im not sure what else you could be looking for but i hope that helps
SD

Sick! I'll definitely take a look into those places, thanks for the help man. I think for now I'm gonna try out the ferts I've bought already and when they run out/when I've got more money I'll start stocking the good shit. I'm coming out of Kaimuki, but nothings too far away.
Based on what's available locally, what would be a decent soil mix with minimum $ expenditures? Maybe a simplified version of what you're using ?

I understand...

I am currently using a mix that looks like this

Base mix
2 parts peat moss
1 part volcanic rock
1 part homemade hawaiian compost! (cheeee Hu!)

Amendment mix
1 part neem meal
1 part crab meal
1 part kelp meal
1 part alfalfa meal
1 part bone meal (i know guys. but i already bought a 50# bag so imma use it ok...)

Rock dust mix
3 parts coral ag lime
1 part Soft Rock Phospate
1 part native red rock dust

So to every 1cf of base mix I'll add about three cups of my amendment mix and three cups of my rock dust mix.

Critical elements of the mix?
pretty much everything lol.
Base mix:
I cannot change anything. That is my standard! I cannot sacrifice anything there.
Amendment mix:
You could use just neem, crab, and kelp meals. If i really really had to. just kelp meal would suffice.
Rock dust mix
Just that coral ag lime will suffice.

There is a really, really, really, fine line between two very key principals here.
1.) Diversity! lots of different nutrients (and hormones) from various different sources.
2.) K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid!

Try to get a good diversity going on. But if you start scratching your head too much. go back to principal 2.

HTH
SD

I understand...

I am currently using a mix that looks like this

Base mix
2 parts peat moss
1 part volcanic rock
1 part homemade hawaiian compost! (cheeee Hu!)

Amendment mix
1 part neem meal
1 part crab meal
1 part kelp meal
1 part alfalfa meal
1 part bone meal (i know guys. but i already bought a 50# bag so imma use it ok...)

Rock dust mix
3 parts coral ag lime
1 part Soft Rock Phospate
1 part native red rock dust

So to every 1cf of base mix I'll add about three cups of my amendment mix and three cups of my rock dust mix.

Critical elements of the mix?
pretty much everything lol.
Base mix:
I cannot change anything. That is my standard! I cannot sacrifice anything there.
Amendment mix:
You could use just neem, crab, and kelp meals. If i really really had to. just kelp meal would suffice.
Rock dust mix
Just that coral ag lime will suffice.

There is a really, really, really, fine line between two very key principals here.
1.) Diversity! lots of different nutrients (and hormones) from various different sources.
2.) K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid!

Try to get a good diversity going on. But if you start scratching your head too much. go back to principal 2.

HTH
SD

So since I doubt I'm going to be able to get a hold of any high quality compost, is Menehune magic a safe(ish) substitute for your homemade compost in the base mix?

I'll definitely be looking into getting at least the coral ag lime & kelp meal to help supplement what I've already got, which of the things I've got would you suggest using in the mix? I think I listed everything I've already purchased earlier.

Thanks for all the solid advice & measurements, it's been really helpful~