Molasses making my plants wilt?

Im not a novice grower Ive been growing for many years now. I recently added a tblspoon of molasses to "feed my soil". A couple days later some of the plants developed a little wilt action. Picture this because my camera not working right now: The very top shoots on the wilting plants look kinda perky still but the lower have started a slight wilt. I know that too much calcium will make plants wilt. I dont overwater so that can be ruled out. I dont underwater either.
I use spring water by the gallon from the grocery store when I water. The plants have been transplanted from 1 gal. pots to 5 gal. about 2 weeks ago. I am using fresh FFOF and I havent added any nutrients to the water except for molasses. Any thoughts?

You're an experienced grower? (not trying to be rude) have you grown organic before or different method of growth?

Yes I am experienced. I normally use soilless switched back to soil. I never use molasses. I just discovered it has calcium and other shit in it. Seems to me like it has calcium toxicity just need a second opinion on this not on if Im an experienced grower or not. not trying to be rude im really not. Thanks!

I really doubt the molasses would give you that much calcium to cause a toxicity in one use. It may also be something in the FFOF. Kinda hear a love/hate opinion about those pre-mixed bags.
I personally don't use molasses because it is like gasoline. Think of your soil like a fire. It's good to have a mix of logs and smaller branches for a nice fire. Leaves, branches, meals, flours, etc are like logs. FPE/botanicals/bottled nutes are like smaller branches. Molasses is pure energy. It causes the micro-herd to explode and die off just as rapidly, causing wild fluctuations in soil health.

Yes I am experienced. I normally use soilless switched back to soil. I never use molasses. I just discovered it has calcium and other shit in it. Seems to me like it has calcium toxicity just need a second opinion on this not on if Im an experienced grower or not. not trying to be rude im really not. Thanks!

Calcium Toxicity

Calcium, for all practical purposes, is not considered to have a directly toxic effect on plants. Most of the problems caused by excess soil Ca are the result of secondary effects of high soil pH. Another problem from excess Ca may be the reduced uptake of other cation nutrients. Before toxic levels are approached in the plant, crops will often suffer deficiencies of other nutrients, such as phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, boron, copper, iron, or zinc.



In a word, its hard to imagine your plant suffering from excess Ca....especially from molasses.


Chunk

Edited by Chunk, 29 June 2012 - 11:16 PM.

Molasses is pure energy. It causes the micro-herd to explode and die off just as rapidly, causing wild fluctuations in soil health.

Where do you get this?

Just watering causes fluctuations in microbial populations. These populations can change throughout the day.

I usually add molasses in flowering only. Come to think of it....I forgot it this grow..

Damnit.

You dont need much. i add a tablespoon a gallon. Two weeks into flower, then at 6 weeks.

Yes I am experienced. I normally use soilless switched back to soil. I never use molasses. I just discovered it has calcium and other shit in it. Seems to me like it has calcium toxicity just need a second opinion on this not on if Im an experienced grower or not. not trying to be rude im really not. Thanks!

There is not enough ca, or really enough of anything in molasses to affect anything but the microbes in the soil.

I'm not going to get all technical, but the label, on the molasses bottle, is done in terms of HUMAN consumption, not plants. If you figure out the real amounts per tbl, or whatever, the amounts for everything are minuscule.

It's not the molasses, per se.

Wet

Happy High Will. Without pictures we're just spitballing anyway so how about this.

There's nothing wrong per se and the plant is adjusting from the transplant.

If you're using the soil straight from the bag perhaps it is not porus enough or it lacks sufficient ratio of quality humic mateiral.

Consider any and all advice on FFOF. Not sure it's a straight out of the bag success story. I more trust those folks that use it successfully by using it as a base and then beefing it up to ensure it's really what one thinks and what one wants it to be.

You're using "spring water". That's junk so quit using it. Unless you've gotten a trusted pH and TDS reading on it, I'll say again - it's junk so quit using it. You might as well be using dechlorinated tap water. Or hell just use tap water as the so-called "spring water" is probably drawn from a local municipal water source. Or use distilled water and supplement your soil mix with all the minor elements and "extras lost" by using distilled water. And of course RO water rocks.

Just spitballing while waiting for my lights to come on :bongin:

Where do you get this?

Just watering causes fluctuations in microbial populations. These populations can change throughout the day.

Pulled it out of my ass, to be honest. I don't use molasses in my grow. I was explaining why.
I know you have proved that molasses is a good food in a tea, but I'm not sure if that correlates to directly being beneficial in an actual horticultural soil environment. I suppose it all comes down to one's opinion and theory of using molasses, so that's mine. I know you know a lot more on the scientific part, where my thoughts are just stoner thoughts, but that's what I think. IMO, It's just like when humans eat McDonalds vs eating a real meal. Pure crap energy vs actual nutrition. I don't put pure sugar energy into my body, or into my soil either. My preference is all.
I also think a little water is a of a lot more natural way of population change, than high dosing unnatural pure sugar energy into your soil.

Edited by HerbMed, 30 June 2012 - 11:48 AM.

Pulled it out of my ass, to be honest. I don't use molasses in my grow. I was explaining why.
I know you have proved that molasses is a good food in a tea, but I'm not sure if that correlates to directly being beneficial in an actual horticultural soil environment. I suppose it all comes down to one's opinion and theory of using molasses, so that's mine. I know you know a lot more on the scientific part, where my thoughts are just stoner thoughts, but that's what I think. IMO, It's just like when humans eat McDonalds vs eating a real meal. Pure crap energy vs actual nutrition. I don't put pure sugar energy into my body, or into my soil either. My preference is all.
I also think a little water is a of a lot more natural way of population change, than high dosing unnatural pure sugar energy into your soil.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Just so you know, black strap molasses is more a carbohydrate than a sugar. It is a byproduct of sugar which makes it less than sugar. It is a plant extract. It is actually extremely healthy to ingest a spoonful a day.

Since we are injecting opinions, what it does in your soil, IMO is increase the bacteria and fungi and subsequently protozoa and nematodes, the major components of a healthy soil and the way that things grow naturally. You are possibly not quite grocking the microbial nutrient cycle.

This does not mean I think people should be applying molasses to their soil. I just don't like seeing blanket statements made as if factual when likely based on conjecture....you know in case people believe them.

Stated by Herbmed: Molasses is pure energy. It causes the micro-herd to explode and die off just as rapidly, causing wild fluctuations in soil health.

For the past two years we have used black strap molasses and soft rock phosphate alone to fertilize our grass/pasture. It is doing quite well so far.

Edited by Microbeman, 30 June 2012 - 07:21 PM.
added in the quote in question

You seem to be interlacing agriculture, horticulture, and even human health.
My response, and my opinion, was in regards to "not a novice grower" asking what I thought to be a very novice question.
Molasses, IMO, can cause wild and unnatural blooms in horticultural soils and lead to "deficiencies and toxicities" that are actually a direct result of these unnatural sugar fueled blooms. I prefer water and plant based nutrition sources, as yes they will affect soil life, but on a much more natural level. I'm not at the PhD level like yourself, so I should probably just stick to truck driving.

...For the past two years we have used black strap molasses and soft rock phosphate alone to fertilize our grass/pasture. It is doing quite well so far.

Happy HighYa MM. Much respect your way.

Have your trials with using blackstrap indicated to you (all) a specific protocol that seems to work 'best' on the "better/best" scale? i.e. 1 Tbsp per gallone twice during a four month cycle. Or a different in protocol. IOW, have you found the 'sweet spot' (no pun intended) where molasses application works "best"? And would you agree that less is best? Not trying to form a trick question or to box you in here. Am genuinely interested in your research of this often passionately debated topic.

For the record I've used molasses in irrigation water and I thought it was "ok". I've used molasses in irrigation water to excess and things were "not ok". I'd kinda-sorta like to go back to using it sparingly but I do believe that I personally have used molasses to an excess level and I cant really put my finger on when the line was crossed and 'how much' it was that pushed me to the point of 'not ok'. It seems to me a fairly logical and pragmatic addition to our grow, just got to figure out how much is enough.

Thanks!

Happy HighYa MM. Much respect your way.

Have your trials with using blackstrap indicated to you (all) a specific protocol that seems to work 'best' on the "better/best" scale? i.e. 1 Tbsp per gallone twice during a four month cycle. Or a different in protocol. IOW, have you found the 'sweet spot' (no pun intended) where molasses application works "best"? And would you agree that less is best? Not trying to form a trick question or to box you in here. Am genuinely interested in your research of this often passionately debated topic.

For the record I've used molasses in irrigation water and I thought it was "ok". I've used molasses in irrigation water to excess and things were "not ok". I'd kinda-sorta like to go back to using it sparingly but I do believe that I personally have used molasses to an excess level and I cant really put my finger on when the line was crossed and 'how much' it was that pushed me to the point of 'not ok'. It seems to me a fairly logical and pragmatic addition to our grow, just got to figure out how much is enough.

Thanks!

We've added up to 2.5 gallons (and as little as 1.7 gal) to 50 gallons of water, applied once per season but also used the richer dilution for transplanting 15 foot trees which were inoculated with Glomus Intraradices. Lost one tree out of 8 the first time and have just planted 9 more. We'll see...

I think that is around 13 tablespoons per gallon. I would NOT recommend this for regular applications.

No real answers to your questions. We're using it because it is cheap, fast, easy and organic.

You seem to be interlacing agriculture, horticulture, and even human health

It's just like when humans eat McDonalds vs eating a real meal. Pure crap energy vs actual nutrition. I don't put pure sugar energy into my body, or into my soil either

Difference Between Agriculture and Horticulture | Difference Between | Agriculture vs Horticulture

Difference between agriculture and horticulture | WikiDifference


Who knows?

Will, not sure if this is your problem but... keep in mind that molasses can throw off your ph considerably. I discovered that and started a thread about it here: http://forum.grassci...oil-ph-wtf.html

Remember to use just a tablespoon of the right kind of molasses per gallon of water -- and -- ph-adjust your molasses/water mixture before feeding it to your plant.

Anything can cause "wilting" though. Whatever is causing it, you still should ph-adjust your molasses water.

You also might want to also use distilled water instead of spring water.

Will, not sure if this is your problem but... keep in mind that molasses can throw off your ph considerably. I discovered that and started a thread about it here: http://forum.grassci...oil-ph-wtf.html

Remember to use just a tablespoon of the right kind of molasses per gallon of water -- and -- ph-adjust your molasses/water mixture before feeding it to your plant.

Anything can cause "wilting" though. Whatever is causing it, you still should ph-adjust your molasses water.

You also might want to also use distilled water instead of spring water.

And read the first post after the opening post. The reason discussed for using molasses is nonsense and is a myth perpetuated by the glossy gurus.

One rarely needs to worry about pH with organic growing.

And read the first post after the opening post. The reason discussed for using molasses is nonsense and is a myth perpetuated by the glossy gurus.

One rarely needs to worry about pH with organic growing.

huh? I don't get what you're saying...

huh? I don't get what you're saying...

Post #2
Your plant doesn't eat molasses, it's used to feed the microbiology living within your soil. I suggest you head over to the organic section and start reading.


Post #10
Im confused, are you trying to grow organically or what? Because if so..

Originally posted by Lumperdawgz
PH in organics

It is true that the humic (and fulvic) acids found in your compost or earthworm castings do maintain the proper PH for that specific plant. Plants use exudes to indicate to the bacteria and fungai in the soils what it needs.

Depending on what specific ingredients are used to brew an ACT (aerated compost tea), you can easily hit the low 4's on the PH scale at the time of application. In an organic growing environment this is never an issue. Ever.

HTH

LD

pH is not relevent in organics

i sit here thinking wow another person beleiving molases is going to make a difference with my micro organisms

fist off we veg 5 - 8 weeks then flower for about the same to think that the organisms need help is so false its not funny them organisms will survive 10 grows later in same soil
people adding molasses in there soils are actually giving there plants a extra boost of essential carbs , Cal , mag etc so in reality helping plant not form any defiencies
in flowering stage
liquid honey is another good source for carbs and Cal, mag ,phos you name it lol