Voting for President is pointless.

Instead of voting for president you should do something productive with your time this election year and write to your elected officials about getting the electoral college system eradicated.

The electoral college is a system where certain selected people vote for president and their vote counts for all the people in their area. This system was very good in old days when the media was not advanced and communicating political issues and candidates ideals where impractical to say the least. They used the electoral college because the average person was uneducated about what was totally going on at the capital. So basically with this electoral college system your vote has no value in the election, because these people can vote any way they want, they do not have to represent what the popular vote in the area is if they do not want to.

Now-a-days however, there is no need for this, because with the media so advance and several major news stations, you can almost always find somewhere to get info on candidates just by turning your tv on anytime during an election year. Not to mention with the internet everything you could want to know and stuff you don't want to know about the candidates are just a click away.

With the technological day and age we live in the archaic system we used in the past is not only unnecessary but dangerous. We should use a popular vote to select our leader now that we are advanced and educated incredibly well when compared to our past. With the electoral college you have no vote and people like George Bush, who was not voted as president of the united states (he lost the popular vote), but purchased the presidency with the electoral college. The system is easily corruptible because of the few people involved, if some asshole wants to buy the presidency he should have to pay off half the American people (because this is very impractical, ergo less corruption) not half the electoral college.

So basically in wrap up, The electoral college needs to be done away with. Because of the electoral college you really have no vote in the say of who becomes president. So if you really want to make a difference instead of spending your time with who is gonna be president this year and where the candidates stand on what issues FORGET IT. All the time you spend following modern politics is just a waste of time (you do not vote for president so why do you care what they think?). A much better use of your time would be to write to your elected officials (representatives and senators) and let them know its time to abolish the electoral college.

We are stuck in the past and until we dispose of the electoral college system we will have no say who becomes president and we will be unable to hold these people accountable. What do they care what we think when they can just buy their presidency(bush for example) and then do as they please (bush again). Do you think some of the things like patriot act would of been passed if bush had to worry about a popular vote election? No he would of made sure that it was never brought up or past because no one in America wants their phone tapped.

The electoral college is one of the least important reasons voting for president is useless.

Ron paul 2012

The real reason it's pointless to vote for president is because the president doesn't decide, or do anything. He is an actor. All politicians are actors. A select few group of people decide everything, and politicians are just actors paid to play the part of policy makers and divide the country in half, keeping half of the country at the other halves throats.

The Bush election was won by counting late absentee ballots, loosing certain other ballots, and a crooked Supreme Court.

Your vote very much counts.

Is my vote for President and Vice President meaningful in the Electoral College system?
Yes, within your state, your vote has a great deal of significance.
Under the Electoral College system, we do not elect the President and Vice President through a direct nation-wide vote. We select electors, who pledge their electoral vote to a specific candidate.
In December, the electors of each state meet to vote for President and Vice President. The Presidential election is decided by the combined results of the 51 (the 50 states and the District of Columbia) state elections. It is possible that an elector could ignore the results of the popular vote, but that occurs very rarely.
Your vote helps decide which candidate receives your state's electoral votes.

Why do we still have the Electoral College?
The Electoral College process is part of the original design of the U.S. Constitution. It would be necessary to pass a Constitutional amendment to change this system.
Note that the 12th Amendment, the expansion of voting rights, and the use of the popular vote in the States as the vehicle for selecting electors has substantially changed the process.
Many different proposals to alter the Presidential election process have been offered over the years, such as direct nation-wide election by the People, but none have been passed by Congress and sent to the States for ratification. Under the most common method for amending the Constitution, an amendment must be proposed by a two-thirds majority in both houses of Congress and ratified by three-fourths of the States.


Interesting article about faithless electors, never has a Presidential vote been against the popular choice of a State that changed an election.
(Some of the electors did make stupid mistakes, like reversing their votes for Pres vs Vice-pres.

http://en.wikipedia....ithless_elector

VOTE THIRD PARTY! goddamn.

ICGreen is exactly right. People elect a President through popular vote. The majority winner of the popular vote receives all of the electoral votes for that state. Basically the winner takes all, except in the states of Maine and Nebraska.

If you believe electoral fraud and systematic corruption has not yet reached the state level where you live- go for it. Good luck with that. Your state reps choose the electoral college members. Think they're not hand selected to do what they are told?

Campaign finance reform. Term limits. Abolition of the Federal Reserve.

And yeah, no two party back and forth anymore. There is no choice there.

The real reason it's pointless to vote for president is because the president doesn't decide, or do anything. He is an actor. All politicians are actors.

Well, let's see, they name lifetime appointments to the supremacy court, that seems a little important I understand you're frustration, but what you say just isn't true. 

As a cannabis supporter, and democrat, I'm voting for Obama. Please understand that I'm truly repulsed by his insistence on stepping up the war on pot. I'm repulsed by the political system that makes him, or more likely is election staff, think they need to do this. But that's the world we live in. They know this book was coming out next week depicting Obama as a teenage pothead, and of course he's a black man running for re-election.... They know that the repugs were going to run ads showing bikini clad woman with pot leafs around their necks in front of LA dispeceries in states like Ohio and Florida saying it happened under his watch...

When it comes cannabis I'll have to hold my nose and vote for Obama reelection. Ron Paul, or anyone like him, is not going to happen. I understand if one is a single issues voter, but America will is not for going back a 150 years, we're not going back to the gold standard, and we're going to cut a trillion dollars from the budget in one year. It's all crackpot stuff. I know the Ron Paul gang is going to jump on me for this, and that's fine. But in the end it's a moot issue. 

Which bring us to Romney.  He has made it very very clear what he thinks of cannabis. No matter what he says now, he's a moderate guy, he knows he can't make more budget cuts, he'll do another stimulas but call it something else (Reagan raised taxed seven times but called ithem "revenue enhancers", and he won't change healthcare... But  he'll make lots and lots of very right wing appointments to make supporters happy. He'll set cannabis laws back a generation. Obama, if re-elected, will likely back off marijuana. Politics is nauseating, but this is an issue I care a lot about, so I'm going with what is the lesser of two evils on this one.

Edited by min7b5, 26 May 2012 - 07:40 PM.

Well, let's see, they name lifetime appointments to the supremacy court, that seems a little important I understand you're frustration, but what you say just isn't true.

As a cannabis supporter, and democrat, I'm voting for Obama. Please understand that I'm truly repulsed by his insistence on stepping up the war on pot. I'm repulsed by the political system that makes him, or more likely is election staff, think they need to do this. But that's the world we live in. They know this book was coming out next week depicting Obama as a teenage pothead, and of course he's a black man running for re-election.... They know that the repugs were going to run ads showing bikini clad woman with pot leafs around their necks in front of LA dispeceries in states like Ohio and Florida saying it happened under his watch...

When it comes cannabis I'll have to hold my nose and vote for Obama reelection. Ron Paul, or anyone like him, is not going to happen. I understand if one is a single issues voter, but America will is not for going back a 150 years, we're not going back to the gold standard, and we're going to cut a trillion dollars from the budget in one year. It's all crackpot stuff. I know the Ron Paul gang is going to jump on me for this, and that's fine. But in the end it's a moot issue.

Which bring us to Romney. He has made it very very clear what he thinks of cannabis. No matter what he says now, he's a moderate guy, he knows he can't make more cuts, and he won't change healthcare... But he'll make lots or very right wing appointments to make supporters happy. He'll set us back a generation. Obama, if re-elected, will likely back off marijuana. Politics is nauseating, but this is an issue I care a lot about, so I'm going with what is the lesser of two evils on this one.

Yeah, you think the Pres hand selects that person he nominates for the SCOTUS? THAT is outside of the "role?" Come now.

How many Republican appointees did Obama stay with? A LOT. How many VACANCIES did he leave in many offices? A LOT. Easier to control known quantities in those offices.
Two Parties= One Party. Get off the Two Party see-saw. Back and forth, back and forth. That is not choice.

You're expressing very defeatist attitudes. That is mostly what I don't care for.

The only reson third partys aren't getting elected is becouse of people like min7b5.

We should try and get every bodie on this site to vote for one third party and see how many minds we can change. Good idea?

When it comes cannabis I'll have to hold my nose and vote for Obama reelection. Ron Paul, or anyone like him, is not going to happen. I understand if one is a single issues voter, but America will is not for going back a 150 years, we're not going back to the gold standard, and we're going to cut a trillion dollars from the budget in one year. It's all crackpot stuff. I know the Ron Paul gang is going to jump on me for this, and that's fine. But in the end it's a moot issue.

Hey, heres a ron paul supporter jumping you.

150 years? thats a pretty long time. It seems to me your very first statement is a fallacy. And whats so wrong with the original laws? do you see how horrible society currently is?

Fiat currencies will always fail. Its inevitable. The currency has to have something to back it up!!! We need actual resources!!! not banks printing out more and more money!

and were not going to cut a trillion in one year? Hmmm lets see OBUMMER took office with 9 trillion.......and now were at 16 trillion in debt. Our AAA+ rating has been downgraded to AA+ in the past year. Dont you think its getting a little outrageous and 1 trillion in annual cuts is needed RIGHT NOW?

Instead of voting for president you should do something productive with your time this election year and write to your elected officials about getting the electoral college system eradicated.

The electoral college is a system where certain selected people vote for president and their vote counts for all the people in their area. This system was very good in old days when the media was not advanced and communicating political issues and candidates ideals where impractical to say the least. They used the electoral college because the average person was uneducated about what was totally going on at the capital. So basically with this electoral college system your vote has no value in the election, because these people can vote any way they want, they do not have to represent what the popular vote in the area is if they do not want to.

Now-a-days however, there is no need for this, because with the media so advance and several major news stations, you can almost always find somewhere to get info on candidates just by turning your tv on anytime during an election year. Not to mention with the internet everything you could want to know and stuff you don't want to know about the candidates are just a click away.

With the technological day and age we live in the archaic system we used in the past is not only unnecessary but dangerous. We should use a popular vote to select our leader now that we are advanced and educated incredibly well when compared to our past. With the electoral college you have no vote and people like George Bush, who was not voted as president of the united states (he lost the popular vote), but purchased the presidency with the electoral college. The system is easily corruptible because of the few people involved, if some asshole wants to buy the presidency he should have to pay off half the American people (because this is very impractical, ergo less corruption) not half the electoral college.

So basically in wrap up, The electoral college needs to be done away with. Because of the electoral college you really have no vote in the say of who becomes president. So if you really want to make a difference instead of spending your time with who is gonna be president this year and where the candidates stand on what issues FORGET IT. All the time you spend following modern politics is just a waste of time (you do not vote for president so why do you care what they think?). A much better use of your time would be to write to your elected officials (representatives and senators) and let them know its time to abolish the electoral college.

We are stuck in the past and until we dispose of the electoral college system we will have no say who becomes president and we will be unable to hold these people accountable. What do they care what we think when they can just buy their presidency(bush for example) and then do as they please (bush again). Do you think some of the things like patriot act would of been passed if bush had to worry about a popular vote election? No he would of made sure that it was never brought up or past because no one in America wants their phone tapped.

Does this have something to do with legalization?

Does this have something to do with legalization?

Come on, he said the media is legit and where we should look to get info on candidates. Just turn on the TV and it tells us all we need to know!

That's not enough for you?

Voting for a President in a democracy is a fallacy. A democracy is a mob-rule corporate military-controlled government that makes its own rules as it plays the game. If you're a "U.S. citizen" you are subservient (lower rank) in that system and have no say in anything that happens.

The whole thing is an illusion to keep people arguing back and forth over things that really don't matter so that you can't see any truth. Your government isn't legitimate, it's a de facto corporation masquerading as a government playing the international war game. There are no Constitutional courts, there isn't a Constitutional Congress. There are only administrative agencies operating under color of law within the confines of the Executive office, and foreign corporations operating in a debt-collections capacity to oversee and administrate the bankruptcy of the "UNITED STATES, INCORPORATED."

The real reason it's pointless to vote for president is because the president doesn't decide, or do anything. He is an actor. All politicians are actors. A select few group of people decide everything, and politicians are just actors paid to play the part of policy makers and divide the country in half, keeping half of the country at the other halves throats.

Fact.

Your vote means NOTHING because in the democracy you HAVE NO VOICE.

You guys need to educate yourselves on the origins of your government and where its power derives from and stop wasting your energy on worrying about the inner workings of a FOREIGN CORPORATION.

It is usually illegal for the electors to vote opposite of how the people in their district voted.

It is usually illegal for the electors to vote opposite of how the people in their district voted.

How would anyone know unless the ballots were counted on the spot by hand on camera? We don't.. the dark suits take the ballots far far away, at times breaking 100 MPH to lose people trying to find out where the ballots are going. They can vote however they want, tell you that's what the ballots said, and 98% of the Sheople will be none the wiser. And since it's mob rule.. the other 2% don't matter. How's that for fraud and deception?

How would anyone know unless the ballots were counted on the spot by hand on camera? We don't.. the dark suits take the ballots far far away, at times breaking 100 MPH to lose people trying to find out where the ballots are going. They can vote however they want, tell you that's what the ballots said, and 98% of the Sheople will be none the wiser. And since it's mob rule.. the other 2% don't matter. How's that for fraud and deception?

Not a rational thought anywhere among all those words, or even a basic understanding of political science. Stop assuming and maybe take the time to look up and read the laws and see how things actually work rather than just assuming you know or that your thoughts and opinions are the only correct method. My main point being that democracy in its pure form, which is what you and others suggest we do is considered in political science to be mob rule. Also the people who run the voting locations and who count and recount ballots are civilians, and if you really want to you can take part in the process. It is only a secret where the votes go to be counted so crazies do not manipulate the results. You do not think it is a little bat-shit to follow votes to where they are going to be counted? And if the system is so corrupt and all this is going on within our voting process then how do we manage to vote people out of elected positions? Why don't we have a dictator? Why before FDR did every president follow the same standard that George Washington set of a 2 term limit? Even though there was NO law which said you could no longer be able to run after 2 terms(and lets also remeber J. Q. Adams, Van Buren, Tyler, Polk, Pierce, Buchanan, Johnson, Hayes, Arthur, Harrison, McKinley, Taft, Harding, and Hoover all were elected to only one term, not including those who died in office which includes another 4 presidents). Our system is designed to be resisitant to change in order to be resistant to changes due to mob rule. So before you go knocking a system which has produced a nation as great as ours and which promotes peace(to have peace you must at times go to war to ensure future peace or to create true peace), freedom, security, and truely was the last the hope for and the arensal of democracy in the Second World War...maybe read a little.

Not a rational thought anywhere among all those words, or even a basic understanding of political science. Stop assuming and maybe take the time to look up and read the laws and see how things actually work rather than just assuming you know or that your thoughts and opinions are the only correct method. My main point being that democracy in its pure form, which is what you and others suggest we do is considered in political science to be mob rule. Also the people who run the voting locations and who count and recount ballots are civilians, and if you really want to you can take part in the process. It is only a secret where the votes go to be counted so crazies do not manipulate the results. You do not think it is a little bat-shit to follow votes to where they are going to be counted? And if the system is so corrupt and all this is going on within our voting process then how do we manage to vote people out of elected positions? Why don't we have a dictator? Why before FDR did every president follow the same standard that George Washington set of a 2 term limit? Even though there was NO law which said you could no longer be able to run after 2 terms(and lets also remeber J. Q. Adams, Van Buren, Tyler, Polk, Pierce, Buchanan, Johnson, Hayes, Arthur, Harrison, McKinley, Taft, Harding, and Hoover all were elected to only one term, not including those who died in office which includes another 4 presidents). Our system is designed to be resisitant to change in order to be resistant to changes due to mob rule. So before you go knocking a system which has produced a nation as great as ours and which promotes peace(to have peace you must at times go to war to ensure future peace or to create true peace), freedom, security, and truely was the last the hope for and the arensal of democracy in the Second World War...maybe read a little.

Not sure what caused you to become belligerent, but forgive me. Perhaps you just haven't done your history reading?

Perhaps you should take a look at Executive Order No. 2, signed by Lincoln. On March 27, 1861 the representatives from seven southern states walked out of Congress and left the Legislative branch that was established by the original Constitution for the united states of America without quorum, which forced Congress to dissolve for inability to reconvene. Lincoln issued Exec. Order 2 which forced Congress to reconvene at gunpoint under an executive, emergency, martial-law jurisdiction. Congress has not legitimately reconvened to this very day. Everything since then has been operating under the "law of necessity," and there's a maxim of law that goes "Necessity knows no law." Everything since Executive Order 2 has been through Executive Orders under authority of War Powers.

In 1868 the SECOND 14th amendment (which was fraudulent and unratified) was passed. This created a new entity known as a U.S. citizen under the authority of a military, commercial, de facto jurisdiction. This U.S. citizen is an artificial, corporate entity-franchise of the new admiralty jurisdiction and operates under corporate limited liability. This second 14th amendment also states that the validity of the national debt shall not be questioned (by U.S. citizens).

Within this private military jurisdiction, the private and foreign-owned "Congress" formed a corporation/commercial agency and a government for that agency, known as the "District of Columbia." This was titled "An Act to Provide a Government for the District of Columbia," also known as the Act of 1871. In 1878 this entity was reorganized and renamed the "United States Government," and the following names were trademarked: "United States," "U.S.," "US," "U.S.A.," "USA," and "America."

In order to function and to keep the majority of people from knowing what had happened, the Federal Constitution of 1871 was created and incorporated the Constitutions of 1787 and 1791 as amended, as bylaws. In essence, We The People, without our consent, were declared "citizens" and granted "civil rights," which are really government privileges, licensed and regulated.

In 1912 the bonds held by international bankers that were keeping the government afloat were due. The government couldn't pay up and the bankers refused to re-finance the debt. Since Congress was already operating under martial-rule color oflaw, it was compelled to pass the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. This act surrendered the Constitutional authority of government to mint, supply and control the entire money supply of the country to a private, foreign corporation known as the Federal Reserve (no more "Federal" than Federal Express). This placed the creation and control of the nation's money within the private military jurisdiction established in 1861. The money supply was then converted from United States Notes to Federal Reserve Notes. Federal Reserve Banks became incorporated a year later, and in 1916 Federal Reserve Notes began circulating among the lawful money of the nation: United States Notes. The Federal Reserve Note has no substance (ie. gold or silver) backing it, it's nothing more than a promise to pay a debt later. For the benefit of "U.S. citizens" carrying around this Monopoly money, we agreed to repay our debt to the bankers in gold, AND pay interest on the use of the FRNs in gold. They printed pretty paper money, and we promised to pay for the privilege of using it with gold, plus interest. As the Treasury paid interest to the Federal Reserve Corporation in gold, it quickly became depleted.

In 1933 the Treasury was drained and the debt was higher than ever. We had a huge debt and no money. Insolvency. Roosevelt proclaimed the bankruptcy of the US, and every 14th amendment citizen of the United States was pledged as an asset to finance the Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization plan, and to pay interest to the creditors (Federal Reserve bankers) and to pay down the national debt (which "shall not be questioned (by U.S. citizens)."

On March 6, 1933, at the Conference of Governors, the Governors of the 48 States of the Union accomodated the federal bankruptcy of the United States Corporation by pledging the faith and credit of their respective States to aid the national government. All "U.S. citizens" were ordered to surrender all gold and silver to their nearest Federal Reserve Bank, and the People, not realizing that they were ACTING as U.S. citizens, did so.
On March 9, 1933 Congress passed the Amendatory Act/Emergency Banking Relief Act, to amend the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917, when the United States was not in a shooting war with a foe, and included the People of the United States as the enemy (not U.S. citizens).

Senate Document 43 of the 73rd Congress, 1st Session declared ownership of ALL PROPERTY (a U.S. citizen qualifies as property) belongs to the STATE, and individual "ownership" is only by virtue of government (ie. only a "user").

This bankruptcy is further backed up by House Joint Resolution 192, Senate Report 93549, and Executive Orders 6012, 6072, and 6246.


So.. the federal government is administrating a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, Congress hasn't legitimately convened in 150 years, your faith and credit (ie your labor) is pledged as surety for the national debt.. and you want to argue about "political science?" YOUR GOVERNMENT ISN'T EVEN REAL. IT'S AN ILLUSION. WHAT POINT DOES VOTING HAVE IF IT'S THE PRESIDENT OF A CORPORATION? It has none. The BOARD OF DIRECTORS, or in the case of a reorganizational bankruptcy, the OWNERS OF THE DEBT get to appoint their President, and he serves at THEIR LEISURE. What standing does the lowest-level employee of a corporation have in deciding who's holding the executive office? NONE.

Stop assuming and maybe take the time to look up and read the laws and see how things actually work rather than just assuming you know or that your thoughts and opinions are the only correct method.

May I suggest taking your own advice? Maybe re-watch the first Matrix and the Wizard of Oz..

And just to further evidence my point, here's an excerpt from Training Manual No. 2000-25, published by what was then the War Department in DC, November 30, 1928.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Official Definition of DEMOCRACY

NOTE

Here are four (4) facsimile section reproductions taken from a 156 page book officially compiled and issued by the U.S. War Department, November 30,1928, setting forth exact and truthful definitions of a Democracy and of a Republic, explaining the difference between both. These definitions were published by the authority of the United States Government and must be accepted as authentic in any court of proper jurisdiction. These precise and scholarly definitions of a Democracy and a Republic were carefully considered as a proper guide for U.S. soldiers and U.S. citizens by the Chief of Staff of the United States Army. Such definition stake precedence over any "definition" that may be found in the present commercial dictionaries which have suffered periodical "modification" to please "the powers in office. Shortly after the "bank holiday" in the thirties, hush-hush orders from the White House suddenly demanded that all copies of this book be withdrawn from the Government Printing Office and the Army posts, to be suppressed and destroyed without explanation. This was the beginning of the complete red control of the Government from within, not from without.

-------------------

Prepared under the direction of the Chief of Staff.

CITIZENSHIP

This manual supersedes Manual of Citizenship Training The use of the publication "The Constitution of the United States," by Harry Atwood, is by permission and courtesy of the author.

CITIZENSHIP Democracy:

A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether is be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy

CITIZENSHIP Republic:

Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress. Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world. A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of

(1) an executive and (2) a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation, all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create (3) a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their government acts and to recognize (4) certain inherent individual rights.

Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.

Atwood. Superior to all others.--Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered. Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success. Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy * * * and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."



"By order of the Secretary of War: C.P. Summerall, Major General, Chief of Staff. Official: Lutz Wahl, Major General, The Adjutant General.



WHY DEMOCRACIES FAIL

A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.(Written by Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago while our thirteen original states were still colonies of Great Britain. At the time he was writing of the decline and fall of the Athenian Republic over two thousand years before.

The government is a private corporation administering a bankruptcy, operating as a democracy in its dying fits, and masquerading as a de jure republican government, WHICH IT IS NOT. Enjoy your democracy.

And as for your question "why don't we have a dictator?" Just wait and see..
EDIT: Actually, let me rephrase that last part.. Just because the "face" (talking head) of the corporation changes every 4 years, does the corporation itself not still "dictate" nearly every facet of your life? Do you have and use a "name?" A "social(ist) security number?" Any "licenses" or "permits?" Do you not use the corporation's monopoly money for everything you do? Do you not follow the rule of law imposed by that corporation? Sounds like a dictatorship to me, just with a different agent imposing its rule every 4/8 years..

Edited by ryeseisi, 27 May 2012 - 09:54 PM.