RIDICULOUSLY slow growth in coco (please help!)

Goodmorning, Grasscity. I come bearing a question that has been on my mind for some time.. I have been growing indoors for almost a year and have had maybe 5 harvests so far. Lost a few plants during the learning curve (mold), but overall my buds always turn out very nice, and growth remains pretty damn healthy throughout.

My problem is THEY GROW SO SLOW. After the 3rd harvest I switched to coco, after hearing the amazing benefits, and at first was pleased. I really like that it’s hard to overwater and doesn’t compact and harden like soil, and I like that I’m touching coconut fiber and not cow shit (not that it’s really a big deal ) but I am not getting the results I was hoping for. I have harvested 2 plants in coco, and am flowering 5 others for a mid-July harvest and they all look great and the first to smoked great. BUT this batch of babies I have are just ridiculously slow growing. They are about 2 months old (maybe 7 weeks, not exactly sure) and they are barely 6 inches tall. They are in like half gallon plastic pots but roots are barely reaching bottom and I’ve had plants like 4x their size (when in soil) in that size container.

I have my vegging plants (from here on referred to as “The Problem”) under a 8bulb 4foot T5 on half power (4 bulbs on, like 215 watts or some shit). They are in “premium coco” and are being fed Roots Organic Grow (and then later Bloom) by label instructions, with some Calmag, Orca, and pH down. Using tap water, but not crazy high levels and I’ve heard plenty of people use tap instead of RO with little noticeable difference. Always pH to 5.9, as I’m convinced my Oakton meter is off by .1, whether feeding or giving plain water. Usually schedule is feed water water feed water water, and so on. They are out in a 4’x2’x5’x grow tent with an outtake (usually tent is left open so doesn’t do much), and a small oscillating fan blowing air on them. Growth looks perfectly healthy (before I put the oscillating fan on them the pots were staying wet a little long but now they dry out in time for me to water every other day). Any other details needed, just ask.

Just really getting frustrated because me and my buddy orders some really nice seeds, I started mine a week before him (mine in coco, his in soil) and his are literally like 5x bigger than mine. Nice and bushy, tall, ready to flower pretty much (if you want a quick cycle) and yet mine still look like they’ve been in the ground 2 fucking weeks. WHAT THE HELL???? Can anyone lend a hand or should I just say fuck it and go back to soil? I really like all the known benefits to coco and would like to stay but obviously this kind of growth is unacceptable. I can’t think of anything to do other than go back to soil (which I REALLY don’t want to do), or I was gonna go pick up some Advanced Nutrient (Micro and Bloom) and try out H3ads modified Lucas formula and see if that picks things up. I just really don’t understand how the growth difference can be that dramatic in his favor? They are huge compared to mine. WHAT DO I DO GRASSCITY??

it aint ur light, i run the 216w with my t5 also and growth is fine, i would suggest watering everyday making sure there is some runoff.

Ha..Got the same problem with my (4) week old girls...2-3" tall and the second set of leaves (under the mag glass) are just barely getting started. Three of them the leaves are curling down, like over watering looks but their not OW and their not doing much in the growth department.

Come on weed were counting on your expertise....

Anyone have any advice on this before I switch nutes and possibly wash off coco and transplant to soil? Don't know what else to do to get this shit going. I've spent so much money making sure everything is perfect in my garden shed, and as far as I can see it's pretty close, but for some reason I'm plagued by this slow growth. Can someone please lend some help??:confused:

A few things I do, never let coco dry out, feed low EC (1.0 in veg 1.2 in flower) at every watering, during veg I feed once a day, during flower 4 times a day.

I use tap water (.25 EC), and Ionic for coco, dripclean and protect, that’s it, works for me.

Post some pictures.

Is the feed a coco specific one?

You need to get pictures up really. All things being equal, a plant in a final pot of coco should be at least as quick as one in soil.

I'll get some pictures up when the lights come on tomorrow. but I honestly don't think a picture is gonna get me the answer I'm looking for. I'll try to post some more detailed info on my feeding, plants, ect in the morning, but for now I'll retire to research Advanced Nutrients.

what temps are you running day/night?
what temp is your coco at? ie are they on a cold floor?

how close is your T5 rig to your babies?
400w MH is better after 3wks veg although i use HPS right the way thru giving 1" to 2" growth a day in veg, however i think Metal Halide gives shorter internodes which = bigger colas when u switch em. if you were using exactly the same lighting before you should get at least the same rate of growth with coco in veg, coco is normally faster than soil for veg, in flower more or less the same IMHO.

did you change anything else in your room when you started coco or outside influences
such as cold or hot weather? are they getting fresh air or are you recirculating?

have you measured the salt in your tap water? i think coco is more sensitive to bad water. if you have an EC over 0.5 i wouldnt use it with coco. mixing RO back in to the tap works well.

do you know the EC of the nutrient solution theyr getting? the manufacturer should tell you how many ml corresponds to what EC? what color are the leaves? you say youre giving water, water, feed, water, water? is this what you were doin with soil? you need to give more feed with coco as it shouldnt have much nutrient/salt content in it when new. however some coco is not prewashed and contains high salt levels. you can tell by running some water thru your new coco and measuring EC before and then the EC of the run-off from the bottom of your pot.

Edited by greenmanalishi5, 21 May 2012 - 07:39 AM.

The answer you are looking for is you are unbalancing the CEC of the coir by watering.
By watering instead of feeding the coco is holding onto the positive ions of some nutrients because the CEC is not “filled”.

cation exchange capacity

After reading that article mile posted... I think I rinsed my coir to much. When I hydrated the coir PPM were 350+- and after the rinse 112PPM. Going to assume the coir was treated to satisfy the CEC and I washed most of the cal/mag out of the medium.

Using cocogro bricks and was under the impression the bricks were not treated like the hydrated loose form is.

I probably need to supplement these 10 day old seedling now with some cal/mag too get some results but, don't want to overdue it.....

Any thoughts on how much Botanicare cal/mag to add to my water?

Hopefully this may shed some light on TMNToker issue also...

Edited by colafarmer, 21 May 2012 - 12:17 PM.

I probably need to supplement these 10 day old seedling now with some cal/mag too get some results but, don't want to overdue it.....

Any thoughts on how much Botanicare cal/mag to add to my water?

you need 1 quart of cal-mag for every droplet of ph'd water, add more if you dont think thats enough

you need 1 quart of cal-mag for every droplet of ph'd water, add more if you dont think thats enough

Clarify....You mean 1 drop cal/mag per quart of water?..
I gave them 1/4 tsp of maxibloom per gal. Maxi has cal/mag but, may add some cal/mag next watering.

I'll get some pictures up when the lights come on tomorrow. but I honestly don't think a picture is gonna get me the answer I'm looking for. I'll try to post some more detailed info on my feeding, plants, ect in the morning, but for now I'll retire to research Advanced Nutrients.

Researching advanced nutrients is one way to completely waste a section of your life.

Whereas posting decent pictures of the whole plant is one of the best means of getting an insight into what your problem is.

Clarify....You mean 1 drop cal/mag per quart of water?..

clarification: look up cola, it appears that joke went right over the top of your head
i charge my coco with cal/mag when i expand it at 4ml per gal, my kids get cal magd coco from around day 5, then after a week or so i add 2ml per gall for the baby mix and 4ml a gal after they get 3 weeks old or so.

clarification: look up cola, it appears that joke went right over the top of your head
i charge my coco with cal/mag when i expand it at 4ml per gal, my kids get cal magd coco from around day 5, then after a week or so i add 2ml per gall for the baby mix and 4ml a gal after they get 3 weeks old or so.

Why am I not laughing...Well maybe a little hardy har har......

Think the maxibloom will help. It has cal/mag/ and at about the same % of N as in the cal/mag.
The PK in maxibloom has got to be good for the root development, I think...

I hear the KISS method they start with 1/4 strength of maxibloom at week one.
Will give them the 2mm of cal/ mag next feeding without the maxibloom.

Edited by colafarmer, 21 May 2012 - 06:15 PM.

The answer you are looking for is you are unbalancing the CEC of the coir by watering.
By watering instead of feeding the coco is holding onto the positive ions of some nutrients because the CEC is not “filled”.

cation exchange capacity

I'm a little confused. What's the fix? NOT watering??

I will take some pictures, but you are just going to see plants that look perfectly healthy, just small. No spotting, discoloration, burning, or ANYTHING like that. You are gonna look at them and say "that looks like a perfectly healthy 3 week old garden" except it's more than twice that old. So that's why I say pictures won't do much, not to be rude or anything, just because they LOOK perfectly healthy, but can't possibly be if they are growing this slow. I am unable to use RO water, I had brita filters I was using when they were small but ALL of my plants are in coco so this is no longer doable. After switching to tap water I saw no noticeable change in growth. I just don't get why this shit is so difficicult, I thought I did my research and had a good understanding of the differences between coco and soil and everything LOOKS fine, but there is no this slow growth is acceptable in my garden. I do not know what to do.

I think I might give them a good flush and switch nutrient brands and start using Lucas Formula and go from there. The organic nutrients I've been using haven't been very impressive and I'd rather just get some AN Micro and Bloom and kinda "start over" with their feeding schedule and see what happens.

Bro, I didn’t ask for pictures, your description of your feed schedule tells me the problem.

Yes the fix is not watering, with coco you feed every time with a low strength mix, you need to have 10 to 20 % runoff or use dripclean to prevent salts from building up in the medium. If you do this you do not need to flush ever.

If you are going to get new nutes get coco specific like cns17, or h&g cocos, I use ionic, but there are several good coco specific lines. Not bashing AN at all, I use it in hydro, but with coco you might need to add calmag, with most coco specific you do not. My plants did not like h3ad’s formula but yours might.

if you want a picture

You'll be surprised what pictures can tell. Just post some up and let's see. Get some close ups of individual plants mate and lets see what to make of them.

Hell ya...After feeding 1/4 maxibloom and some cal/mag those lady's perked right up. Second set of leaves have tripled in size....Still setting me back a couple weeks but, better getting it straightened out earlier than further down the road...
Always used peat to start, with no problems and transplanted to coco. Just a minor learning curve starting seeds in coco...Thanks for the tips....