Time to play...Name-That-Deficiency!

Heres what I think:

The first one looks like a phosphorous deficiency to me.

The second one looks like a mag deficiency to me, but I'm a lot less sure on that one...

The third doesn't show much damage, but I'm concerned about the way the new growth is. It seems fairly glossy. But that could just be the strain, Hindu.

...and the last three I'm at a loss.

This is my first venture into hydroponics, and I've spent literally all my savings on it, so failure really is not an option. So help is MUCH appreciated

Oops, totally forgot my info:

Growing in a rockwool cube/hydroton setup. They are a lil over a week into transplant, with temps at around 80 at the hottest, with around 74 at the coolest. I had them on RO with quarter strength GH root enhancer and quarter strength cal mag, and I added quarter strength sensi grow, the two parter, today. PH has been steady at 5.6-6.0.

The damage I'm really worried about is the stuff in the first picture, since its brand new and progressing. It looks like phosphorous deficiency, but I think it could also be signs of nitrification. It only seems to be happening to one strain as of now, the headband, and its affecting both older and newer growth as well.

I could really use somebodies help with this...I don't want them to die...I have far too much riding on them :'(

I grow in ebb and gro system also. I grow three rooms in this system, you can see the video on the last page of my grow journal.

What I would do is fill up a fresh reservoir, don't add the root enhancer, I see that the clones have roots. Add 50% of nutes, for instance fill to 40 gallons and add nutes for 20 gallons. Ph the resi and give it a week or more.

keep a fan on to assist the temps in the room, I would keep it in the mid 70's

I used a root enhancer once in this hydro system, it screwed up the plants, so I kinda think that's what's doing it to yours.

I'm pretty sure I already commented on your grow and the use of root enhancer, what type is it?

that glossy look is from the bug spray you've used on your plants

It's GH's Rapidstart, 1-.5-1. At first I thought it might have been the rapidstart, but they have been getting it from the beginning, and are just now starting to show the symptoms you see in the first picture. The only other change I've made recently is adding calmag to the mix, which, again, I thought might be working with the rapidstart to hurt them, but I've had the rapidstart in with quarter strength nutes and it didn't do that either, so I'm quite stumped here. Another thing I've noticed, it's ONLY in my headbands, and no other strain.

I thought the glossy look was residue as well, but it's only on my three Hindus, so that's another mystery...

It's progressing Somebody PLEASE help...

Looks like over-fert to me; what are you feeding it/how often?

Right now I have two tsps of root enhancer, 4 tsps of calmag, and 4 tsp of both a and b of sensi grow in thirty five gallons.

When something is screwing with your plants you will not see the effects right away. Something you did to cause it may have been remedied by the time you notice the damage and trying to fix what was already fixed could cause more damage. When you try a fix wait 3 days. Son't panic and don't do too many things at one time to fix it, especially when you don't know the cause.
for instance
when a plant gets dry and wilts you water, 3 days later she dumps a bunch of bottom leaves for a couple of days. You think it's not the underwater affects but something new, when in fact it was a leaf dump from dryness 3 days ago. Remedied already but a panic may cause you to over feed and exacerbate the problem.

I totally understand, and the only things Ive changed was adding the calmag a couple days ago. Then a day after all the headbands started there shit. But as far as health goes, are they on their ways to the grave? I need to know because if so then Im going to need to pull them and replace them asap...

If its a deficiency I doubt theyll kick the bucket from just that, but the cumulative effects of that plus something else could do them in...

Edited by hashhunter, 06 May 2012 - 07:11 AM.

hey man



is rapidstart anything like superthrive??? because if so, stop using it. thats what i believe is causing these problems.





-OSUB

Hmmm...I dont think so. I know siperthrive is considered a pesticide, but Im not sure that rapidstart is. Either way, getting rid of it can only help at this point, so Im changing out my res today. You think these girls can handle 35-40% nutes at this point? The ppms have been around 200-250 with everything (rootenhancer, calmag, and the sensi).

For the record the problem is a clear cut case of iron defeciency here's a page from the sticky at the top of this forum http://forum.grassci...-burn-pics.html. Scroll down the page and you'll see pics just like these next to iron defeciency. Both PH and nute burn would look totally different and it's clear by the fact that the veins are still green but there's necrosis between them.

^ I would rather lean towards a burn over a deficiency; especially in hydro of correct pH. Though one picture shows green veins with yellow margins, most of the other pictures don't point to iron.

OP, did the tips darken first followed by the yellowing, or was it yellowing followed by dying leaves(dark tips)?

To me, I don't know whats going on aside from the plant is stressed. I'd cut the additives and stick to the A/B. The look of the plants and the burnt tips make me think SOMETHING is not settling well with the plants "stomach". Check that you ppm meter is accurate and check your root system for any issues.

OP, did the tips darken first followed by the yellowing, or was it yellowing followed by dying leaves(dark tips)?

The tips darkened first, with a thin strip of yellow around that as it progressed.

To me, I don't know whats going on aside from the plant is stressed. I'd cut the additives and stick to the A/B. The look of the plants and the burnt tips make me think SOMETHING is not settling well with the plants "stomach". Check that you ppm meter is accurate and check your root system for any issues.

Changed my res with fresh RO and a fresh round of nutes, without the calmag and the rapidstart. Taking those two out of the equation should make this much less of a headache. I ended up making 50 gallons of RO, and added 20 tsp of both A and B.

I got some very sound advice from someone who, for lack of a better way to word it, knows his shit. It confirmed my suspicions of a P deficiency. Evidently my Sensi grow is pretty low on phosphorus, with the a being 3-0-0 and the b being 2-2-5. It was suggested I should pick up FF tiger bloom and use it in conjunction with part a, instead of b.

But for now, I upped my nute concentration, and am currently sitting at 184 ppm. I figure until I can get something to isolate the problem and take care of it, the added nutes should at least slow down or halt the deficiencies progressing. One could hope, at least...

Does anyone have any quick remedies for a P deficiency?

^ With that info, it sounds like salt burn. Yellow first would indicate a deficiency as the plant saps its nutes in already made cells to support new growth; the tip damage and necrosis(grey dead) follows as the leaf just kills off older growth to make new growth.

The tips first indicate a burn; The plant isn't using all the salts it is absorbing - because of how the transport of water works, this ends up drying the salts out on your leaves and collecting at the tips. eventual buildup begins to damage the leaf and wack with processes inside of it

In hydro, a quick remedy is simply introducing the nute at correct pH - the plants react extremely fast as nutes are extremely available. When I was flushing my recirc yesterday I saw a Mg defic begin and progress DURING the flush, which took an hour. It corrected itself after I filled the res with nuted-water and some epsom salts.

Though, watch it - I'd say you had a P lockout over a P defic - that ratio doesn't help either case. Just grab the FF tiger bloom, or if your open to suggestions, flora nova bloom next restock - the flora nova is 4-8-7 and is a 1 part nute in hydro in either vege or bloom for continual addition of water (50 gallons RO sounds like a bitch to swap out res's with a clean res - the 4-8-7 lets you just refill nute solution and not worry on burns for a LONG time; my recirc's last flush was 2 months ago with no issues, though I feel I pushed the envelope on that - I have some issues which may or may not be related)

Edited by 1sttimegrower, 07 May 2012 - 07:22 AM.

Few things every new hydro grower should know:

When in doubt, flush.

Less is more.

KISS - keep it simple stupid.

It's a weed, it knows how to grow.

Let it be.

Helicopter parents screw up their crop.

When financially planning, lowball your expectations. It's standard for the first hydro crop to be 1/4 of your potential (gpw, grams per watt). 2nd grow is 1/2 your potential. 3rd grow is 3/4 your potential. There are always exceptions to the rule, but you want to financially plan conservatively.


I agree with 1st timer, lockout. Too many nutes too soon. Flush with pure RO or 1/3 strength nutes. Ive had better results with plain RO over 24-48 hours, but 1/3 strength is a standard.