SwapCityFarmer FantasyGrow(Initial Journey)

I'm fairly new around these parts - I barely know what 'm doing when it comes to organic growing - maybe even less now that I think about it - have grown indoor a couple times but with bottled nutes - I started a new grow a couple months ago from seeds intending to grow using bottled nutes

2 strains - A. seeds from a kush plant pollinated by a haze plant in a friends grow
B. seeds from a friend bought from a seed seller

germinated the seeds in moist napkins - I've heard this is frowned upon by the high brow blades - eh - whatever - do what you can to get where you want as long as you don't hurt others I say.

once the seeds germinated they were placed in moist cubes and put under two 100w CFL's for 24hr a day for 2 weeks - after that period they were then transplanted to cups and switched to 18/6 cycle.

At this point 13 surviving germinated seeds were placed under some old T8's I dug out the basement - after a couple weeks 8 were transplanted from the cups to 3 gal pots - 3 of one strain(dont know the strain) and 5 of the kush/haze cross breed

I purchased a bottled nutes kit and started lightly(or so I thought) feeding - after a couple days some brown/gold spots began appearing on some of the leaves - while investigating the cause of the spots I stumbled upon two GC threads here and here - after reading and reading and reading and reading - I made the decision to transition from what was originally intended to an ORGANIC grow.

after doing some more research we went shopping and decided the following would make up our first upstart organic soil mix

1.5cu.ft espoma potting soil
.5cu.ft Hamilton garden compost
1 cu.ft lamberts peat moss
.5cu.ft EWC
.25cu.ft vermiculite
.25cu.ft pulverized lime
.25cu.ft coco coir

Amendments

1-2cup blood meal
1-2cup bone meal
1-2cup crab shell
1 cup happy frog fert
1 cup happy frog bat guano
1 cup kelp meal
1 cup super phosphate
1-2cup rose tone
1-2cup cotton seed meal
2 cups alfalfa pellets

brewed 2 cups compost 2 cups EWC 2 tbs unsulphured molasses for 36hrs in 1 1/2 gallons of distilled water

the plan is to find two good mothers from each strain(hopefully) and then begin cloning said mothers in the mean time our soil will be cooking - hopefully all will coincide and the clones can be placed it our organic soil mix to start their cycle.

the next step for us figuring out which ones are the females and for that I'll be looking to the blades of GC for some assistance.

and so this journey has begun

Hey swapportunity,

Welcome to the organics forum.

Looks like you've got a good start going so far. Your seedlings look real healthy.

A couple of things stand out in your grow mix that you might want to think about adjusting:

The .25cu.ft pulverized lime is quite a bit of lime. That much lime can interfere with the uptake of micronutrients in a big way. Your base mix is roughly 3cu. ft., so two or three cups should be plenty.

The 1/2 cups of blood meal and cottonseed meal, plus the 2 cups of alfalfa pellets is going to make for a pretty hot mix. You'll want to let that cook for a good long time, maybe 6 weeks or more, and keep it moist with your bacterial brew and good water to let things process down before setting plants into it. You might even want to consider a three-stage planting process:

Clone into a mix of 2 parts sphagnum moss, 1 part EWC, 1 part perlite
Transplant into 1 gal containers with 2 parts sphagnum moss, 1 part hot soil mix, 1 part perlite
Final transplant into larger containers with full strength mix

Those are merely examples to give you something to go by. Setting freshly rooted clones straight into your final mix will be very hard on them.

Good luck, and I'll be watching for your updates.

See ya...

Edited by papawayne, 30 April 2012 - 07:51 PM.

Welcome Swappor T!

Looks like papawayne has you dialed in........the gang here will help you out so you're in great hands.

Good luck!

Chunk

Papawayne

Thanks for the hearty welcome and for checking in... I see I made a typo in two threads.. 2 cups of lime not .25 cu.ft - my bad - jerry and or Irie also suggested my mix may be a bit hot - also thanks for the suggestion - I'm grateful - means I can develop my clones in a milder medium - while still sorting out my soil mix - kool

Hey swapop,

No problemo. Nobody wants to see you burn the toes off those little girlz.

See ya...

man oh man work kicked my butt yesterday - did get a chance to pick up some perlite and some more vermiculite - decided to add .5cu.ft of perlite and .5cu.ft of vermiculite to my mix - also started brewing more tea to add to my soil as its not moist enough yet

took some time with my crop as well and started LST with elastics and wire pieces - topped some not all - hopefully I did that correctly - mid or late next week I wanna take some clones from each - i guess after the clones get some roots I'll put them under 12/12 and see if i can find out their sex

after work today its time to start the mild medium that papawayne suggested

Clone into a mix of 2 parts sphagnum moss, 1 part EWC, 1 part perlite
Transplant into 1 gal containers with 2 parts sphagnum moss, 1 part hot soil mix, 1 part perlite

may add some coco coir to that as well

the journey continues

sourced some azomite and ordered neem meal - stoked - added the azomite to my soil mix and waiting on the neem to arrive so I can also add that - noticed that since I mixd a botanical tea and have been using to water - the ladies are looking up - the LST has been doing well new - growth is happening fast as I pin another part down - also decided to construct a mini tent to 12/12 some clones to figure out sex and pick mothers - oh and I got injured at work so I got a couple days off - means more time with tha ladies

the journey continues

last night I realized transplanting was needed - decisions decisions - should I go from cups to 3gal then transplant to 5gal - or - should I just transplant straight into 5gal - not sure and would love some input - anyone? anyone?

Hey swapop,

There are pros and cons to both methods.

Going the staged route with an intermediate pot size transplant before the final transplant is probably the safest, as you can use the first transplant to introduce your ladies to a milder soil mix before placing them in the full strength soil. But, it involves the extra transplant, which, if you don't have your transplant technique down, can be an additional source of stress. Check out MGB's thread for a good example of this method.

Transplanting straight into their final home can shorten the grow cycle by a few weeks and avoids the possibility of the additional transplant stress, but you'll want to be sure your final soil mix has been "cooked" sufficiently and is not so hot that it chokes the young seedlings or clones.

Take the route you feel most comfortable with, and go for it.

See ya...

Hey swapop,

There are pros and cons to both methods.

Going the staged route with an intermediate pot size transplant before the final transplant is probably the safest, as you can use the first transplant to introduce your ladies to a milder soil mix before placing them in the full strength soil. But, it involves the extra transplant, which, if you don't have your transplant technique down, can be an additional source of stress. Check out MGB's thread for a good example of this method.

Transplanting straight into their final home can shorten the grow cycle by a few weeks and avoids the possibility of the additional transplant stress, but you'll want to be sure your final soil mix has been "cooked" sufficiently and is not so hot that it chokes the young seedlings or clones.

Take the route you feel most comfortable with, and go for it.

See ya...

appreciated papawayne thanks also for checking in -
soil mix wont be ready till the first or second week in June -
also appreciate the MGB link

thanks again

swap

Yesterday took some time to transplant the last remaining cups into 1gal pots - also decided to take some clones of the original 8 that were transplanted into 3gal pots - 3 of the unknown strain and 6 of the cross breed - got a lil carried away with the first clone and chopped it into 2 clones *lol* - I'll try and post some pics in the week dropped my damn camera now I have a lens error and have to send it to the shop - ***arrrgghhhh***


Now here I go again, I see the crystal visions
I keep my visions to myself It's only me
Who wants to wrap around your dreams and
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Dreams of loneliness Like a heartbeat, drives you mad
In the stillness of remembering what you had
And what you lost
What you had
And what you lost

the DIY stickies on here are amazing - was checking out the DIY cloners - all I can say is WOW!!!! - don't know nuthin bout birthing no babies nor bout cloners - razor/clone powder/jiffy plugs/humidity dome - that's what we know

today we took clones of the last 5 that were transplanted a couple days ago 2 of the unknown strain and 3 of the cross pollinated strain and added them to the humidity dome - it still amazes me that they lay down for couple hours then when you check back they're all standing at attention

I started nutrient tea brew yesterday with some amendments and today when i checked it - wow - wish I had a proper microscope to really see what we have but alas no scope so check the pics of my bucket of brew and the alleged microbes that might be growing on top

These teas are quite odiferous that smell mixed with the scent of the mj - oh wow - glad we have a scrubber cause the tent "STINKS"

hopefully all the clones will root and we will be able to transplant all into cups then 12/12 schedule them and find out their sex - hopefully all will go swimmingly - HOPEFULLY!

borrowed a camera and took some pics - lemme know what you think of how they look and if you can recognize the strains as I'm just not that talented yet - got a couple droopin(00e and 00g) and they dont seem to be over watered (confused) any ideas or suggestions appreciated

until the next update - the journey continues

swap

Hey swappo,

the DIY stickies on here are amazing - was checking out the DIY cloners - all I can say is WOW!!!! - don't know nuthin bout birthing no babies nor bout cloners - razor/clone powder/jiffy plugs/humidity dome - that's what we know

There's more killer info on this forum than anywhere on the planet.

today we took clones of the last 5 that were transplanted a couple days ago 2 of the unknown strain and 3 of the cross pollinated strain and added them to the humidity dome - it still amazes me that they lay down for couple hours then when you check back they're all standing at attention

Just an observation, but you may moving a bit fast. Transplanting is stressful, and so is cloning. While doing both in the space of a couple of days may prove successful, you're girlz will love you all the more for giving them a little more time to recover some vigor between stressful operations.

I started nutrient tea brew yesterday with some amendments and today when i checked it - wow - wish I had a proper microscope to really see what we have but alas no scope so check the pics of my bucket of brew and the alleged microbes that might be growing on top

That foaming is gas released by the bacteria as they multiply and feed (micro-farts ). You'll want to stop the bubbler at the peak of foaminess and apply the brew to your plants within a few hours. If you brew beyond the peak foaming action and the foam starts to lessen, it means the bacteria have run out of food and are dying, soon to be consumed by the Great White Sharks of the micro-world, the protozoa, which will then dominate your brew.

What ingredients did you use in your brew, and at what quantities? I ask because most brews won't "STINK" but will smell kinda earthy and pungent. When they really start to stink is when they go anaerobic, which is bad news. But again, the smell will depend somewhat on your ingredients.

borrowed a camera and took some pics - lemme know what you think of how they look

They look pretty good, but is something chewing on them? I see "torn" spots on a few leaves.

got a couple droopin(00e and 00g) and they dont seem to be over watered

I see one of those, 00g, was one you cloned or topped. I couldn't tell from the 00e pic if it had been topped as well. Topping and cloning, again, are stressful to the plant. When stressed, they don't transpire at the same rate as a vigorous plant, therefore, they don't draw as much water from the soil. If you water on a schedule, or water them the same as your more vigorous plants, they will show signs of over-watering, which is actually a lack of oxygen in the root zone.

Your best course of action is to leave them alone until they dry out completely. Then, don't flood the containers for the next one or two waterings. Just give them enough water to rehydrate. When the leaves perk back up and they shows signs of vigorous growth again, then you can soak them.

Hope that helps.

See ya...

EDIT: One more quick observation. You might want to separate your clones from each other a bit more. There is not a lot of air movement in a humidity dome, and even when you do lift the dome to mist and allow fresh air in, any leaves that are overlapping and lying on top of one another won't get the benefit of the fresh air, and that, coupled with high humidity and temps is a potential mold situation.

EDIT II: I'll shut up now.

Edited by papawayne, 09 May 2012 - 02:50 AM.

Papawayne

first things first - thank you for your consistent input

Transplanting is stressful, and so is cloning. While doing both in the space of a couple of days may prove successful, you're girlz will love you all the more for giving them a little more time to recover some vigor between stressful operations.

thanks for the heads up - as i understand 'stress' can lead to males and hermies - we dont want that

What ingredients did you use in your brew, and at what quantities? I ask because most brews won't "STINK" but will smell kinda earthy and pungent. When they really start to stink is when they go anaerobic, which is bad news. But again, the smell will depend somewhat on your ingredients.

to 4 1/2 gal water

1 cup kelp meal
1 cup happy frog bat guano
1 cup rose tone
1 cup EWC
1-2cup crab shell
1 cup happy frog fert
1 cup super phosphate
1 cup cotton seed meal
2 cups alfalfa pellets
1 cup manure
1 cup compost
5 tbs black strap
4 tbs fish hydrolyze

They look pretty good, but is something chewing on them? I see "torn" spots on a few leaves.

I saw that as well and have been searching and investigating and i havent found anything at all will start neem oil application tonite just in case - still waiting on my neem cake to arrive

Your best course of action is to leave them alone until they dry out completely. Then, don't flood the containers for the next one or two waterings. Just give them enough water to rehydrate. When the leaves perk back up and they shows signs of vigorous growth again, then you can soak them.

Hope that helps.

will do guess LITFA applies at this juncture on a couple levels *lol*

One more quick observation. You might want to separate your clones from each other a bit more. There is not a lot of air movement in a humidity dome, and even when you do lift the dome to mist and allow fresh air in, any leaves that are overlapping and lying on top of one another won't get the benefit of the fresh air, and that, coupled with high humidity and temps is a potential mold situation.

gotcha I'm on it - great suggestions thanks again for your time and expertise - much appreciated

swapop

Edited by swapportunity, 09 May 2012 - 09:51 AM.

to 4 1/2 gal water

1 cup kelp meal
1 cup happy frog bat guano
1 cup rose tone
1 cup EWC
1-2cup crab shell
1 cup happy frog fert
1 cup super phosphate
1 cup cotton seed meal
2 cups alfalfa pellets
1 cup manure
1 cup compost
5 tbs black strap
4 tbs fish hydrolyze

Holy freakin' shyte, dude! Do not...repeat...DO NOT pour any of this brew on your plants! That's an Armageddon brew! Black Death in a bucket! Agent Orange for do-it-yourself fanatics! Whew! No wonder it stunk, with all that alfalfa, cottonseed meal and kelp in there!

I don't know...did you mistake someone's soil mix recipe for a brew recipe? Jeez, even as a soil mix that would burn the snots out of your plants. Yikes!

Here's a typical bacterial brew recipe:

3 gals water
1/2 cup EWC
1/2 cup compost
1 Tbsp kelp meal
1 Tbsp black strap

That's it. If you really wanted to get fancy, you could add 1 Tbsp Happy Frog 5-5-5 and 1 Tbsp of fish hydrolyze, but even that isn't necessary.

You're not making a liquid plant food fertilizer when you brew a tea. You're growing a batch of bacteria, that when applied to your soil mix will do the work of breaking down your mix ingredients into a soluble form your plants can uptake through the roots.

The bacteria are naturally present in the EWC and Compost. The bubbling action of the water dislodges them. The black strap feeds them once they are out on their own. They will multiply as long as there is food to eat, which for the above recipe would be about 18 hours. The kelp is there for the minerals and a couple hundred other compounds that are good for your plants.

I don't know what you can do with the brew you made. Maybe mix a Tbsp of it in a gallon of water and feed it to some of your neighbor's roses. Just make sure it's a neighbor you hate.

See ya...

I don't know...did you mistake someone's soil mix recipe for a brew recipe? Jeez, even as a soil mix that would burn the snots out of your plants. Yikes!

I did mix-up a soil mix recipe for a brew recipe in my initial attempt when I was making my first soil mix 'jerry' prevented disaster that time and advised me to use it as a nutrient tea which I did after diluting it

I've actually used this before at 1 cup mix to 1 gal water and fed my plants and nothing burned - just figured I'd brew enough to store up as I have several gardens to deal with herbs veggies and a couple trees out back - so far everything has responded well

the pics I posted are of said plants after a watering with my last batch of diluted nutrient tea

EDIT - actually smells like a mix of manure earth and crab shell not putrid or rancid smelling

Edited by swapportunity, 09 May 2012 - 01:58 PM.

Hey swappo,

Whew! ~wipes sweat off brow~

So, you are intentionally brewing a nutrient tea, as opposed to a straight bacterial tea. That makes a little more sense, now.

Still, if you're storing it long-term, you'll want to smell it regularly. If it gets that rancid smell, then chuck it.

Good luck!

See ya...

Hey swappo,

Whew! ~wipes sweat off brow~

So, you are intentionally brewing a nutrient tea, as opposed to a straight bacterial tea. That makes a little more sense, now.

Still, if you're storing it long-term, you'll want to smell it regularly. If it gets that rancid smell, then chuck it.

Good luck!

See ya...

no worries PW appreciate the concern alarm and positive intention - so far have only stored brew one week at most - between the several gardens this brew probably wont last more than 5 days tops - am currently diluting after two days then storing - so tomorrow the brew wil be diluted and divided for storage

plants have perked up and are reachin for the light after taking clones - clones are 2 and 3 days in their respective jiffy cubes and reaching under the 'H' dome - we are currently in LITFA mode - until our next update off to work

the journey continues

wow what a day - injuries still linger yet life goes on - and life is good - just checked on the clones - they look and smell good - no issues - pop offs in the veg room are mostly still reachin - they need water - tomorrow morning wake up call will include a watering - and water only it will be - wanna start a project tomorrow - was chekin some of the DIY cloners builds and that given me the impetus to design/build a clone/mini-veg cabinet - gotta make a lowes/home depot run this weekend and hopefully will source the needed materials and then get to work


the journey continues