watts vs lumens?

Discussion in 'First Time Marijuana Growers' started by JegrobooJake, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. Okay so I'm about to start my.first grow. I know everyone shoots down growing with cfls. But for now it's my only option. And I'm not.going to.not grow just because you say it's a waste of time to.grow with cfls... But anyways I'm only going to be growing one plant

    I'm confused people here have told me to go by 100 Watts (actual not equivalent) or I've been told 3000 lumens minimum. Per plant... Which one is it? I'm going to buy lights tonight. Do I go buy lumens or watts?
    Any help is appreciated I know I'm a noob
     
  2. 3K lumens/sq ft would be on the low end. Lumens is just what is used to describe the light's energy that the plants will actually be receiving. Both watts and lumens matter, they just have different effects with different bulbs. If you grow with CFLs try to get 100-150 actual watts per plant, and have them set up at different angles as close as you can to the plant without burning it. CFLs lose their energy output after like 6" or so, so to be effective they need to be close to the plants. It should say on the box how many lumens per bulb, for the best results I'd go for 5000/sq foot allowing all the plants to get plenty of light.

    EDIT: to the poster above, 50 watts isn't enough to get satisfactory results from a single plant.
     
  3. You have More experience than me morange, so i beleive you. but i have done EXTENSIVE research on this particular question and 150 seems high .... but then again when i grow i only grow indoor until like a quarter through veg. so less light than going through the hole cycle
     

  4. Yeah usually recommended is 75-100 per plant, but seeing as the OP was going with only 1 plant, I found from my own experience with CFLs that since the output drops off pretty quickly, I had a lot more success the more light I packed in there.

    I don't think I would go with under 100 watts for one plant though, especially since you can get 4 26 watt cfls for about $20 or so at home depot.

    It really all comes down with how efficiently you are using your light though. If you are making the absolute most out of 50 watts it would do better than an inefficient setup with 100 watts but having most of it wasted.
     
  5. Ultimately what you want to deliver to your plants is light, so ideally you could buy lamps and bulbs based on "light" output. Turns out that's difficult and expensive to measure and even difficult to define. Still, lumens is some sort of a measure of light, so ultimately go by that. 3k per sq ft is adequate, but you would be rewarded to put in more light.

    Wattage is a measure of electrical consumption. Microwave ovens and hair dryers and computers all consume wattage, too. Over time, when a bulb of a certain wattage is known to be a certain lumens, then wattage becomes a "short-hand" for "amount of light." The problem is, though, that different kinds of bulbs have come out that don't have that same lumens-per-watt ratio, but then people keep talking about "wattage" and many actually are confused.

    50 watts per sq ft, or per plant, is the minimum level you want when using HID lighting (MH and HPS), up to 100w per being generally considered serious good light. Compared to CFLs, HID is about twice as efficient at converting watts consumed into light. Or, to plug that back into the old rule of thumb, with CFLs you need bare minimum of 100w actual per sq ft or per plant, not overdoing it until you get over 200w per. Would a plant live on less light than that? Yes. It might even produce a few joints. But as long as you're growing you should aim to get above those minimums and get yourself a real harvest for your efforts.

    If you're going to do more than a couple of plants you would be better off with HID than CFL -- remember that with CFL your electric bill for your lights will need to be double in order to be delivering the same amount of light as HID.
     
  6. #9 BadKittySmiles, Apr 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
    This watts/lumens chart may help you make up your mind...


    And remember, 1 plant grown under '100 watts' or its translation to lumens, will be smaller in a given period of time, than one, of four or more plants, grown and spaced out under 400 watts, and so on... or in other words, each of those plants, will grow faster and produce larger flowers, in any given period of time (or in even less time), than one plant grown under 100 watts, when given the same space per plant.

    What's adequate for lighting as a bare minimum, to keep them alive, isn't exactly ideal in terms of yield.


    Using the bare minimum puts a LOT of your effort to waste, for a very minimal gain, when virtually the same effort with just a hair more light and an extra bottle of nutes, could get you five or ten times the yield in a shorter period of time.
    A more intense light can save you money, by speeding up the growth process, growing more herb in a shorter period of time, and by encouraging a faster or shorter total life cycle.


    There is an 'accumulatory' effect that takes place when you increase the wattage/lumens hovering over a certain area. For instance while you 'can' grow in 2 x 4 closet using a total 100watt CFLs and keep a few plants alive in doing so, with the one in the very center doing best of all, if your exhaust is decent, you can instead use a 400watt or even a 600watt HPS in the same space to much, MUCH greater effect... one single plant under 400 watts will vastly out-perform and over-produce multiple plants under fewer watts, and it will mature and do so MUCH more quickly. It's cheaper and more efficient in the short-term, and in the long run. :)


    If you don't have a specific reason to use CFLs (such as; absolutely nothing you can do about temps for instance, or strict initial cost restrictions etc.) then try for a 150 - 400watt HID, even if only still for a single plant.... a cutting/clone or REPUTABLE feminized seed source is crucial, if you plan on growing just one, single plant.


    More of your watts convert to lumens which the plants can use, when using HIDs, and it's virtually the same effort for many multiple times the yield. Less than double the effort, for months of extra smoke.

    It is literally just a matter of tipping a watering can for a few extra seconds, to wet either a slightly larger amount of medium, or to more-frequently wet the same medium you'd use with lower-powered lights. If going hydro, depending on the form, it can be even less effort.


    If you're an average tolerance user, and smoke a few days a week, you could go from spending months and months to produce just a week or two's worth of smoke (then it's right back to the clinics, or dealers), to instead producing several months worth, in less time, allowing you to grow plenty enough to last you between crops.. all just by upgrading your lights a tiny bit.


    If you value your time, and if you dislike the thought of going back to paying good money for questionable herb, only a few short weeks after you've spent months growing as little as ten or fifteen grams, then a better light is the key. :smoke:



    150w incandescent = 2,550 lumens or only 17 lumens per watt

    150w halogen = 3000 lumens or 20 lumens per watt

    150w of Fluorescents = 9,000 lumens or 60 lumens per watt

    150w of Compact Fluorescents = 10,500 lumens or 70 lumens per watt

    150w Metal Halide = 13,500 lumens or 90 lumens per watt

    150w High Pressure Sodium = 16,000 lumens or 107 lumens per watt
     
  7. Watts is a measure of energy and lumens is a measure of brightness, i might be wrong though.
     
  8. I honesty can't thank you guys enough,I hope my question wasn't to nooby and will be able to help other people In my.situation.. I found some nice 45 watt lights that come in packs of 2 going to go with 2 of them and a pack of 5 26 Watts, I agree as soon as I'm in my own place next year I'll be upgrading for sure
     
  9. [quote name='"BadKittySmiles"']This watts/lumens chart may help you make up your mind...

    And remember, 1 plant grown under '100 watts' or its translation to lumens, will be smaller in a given period of time, than one, of four or more plants, grown and spaced out under 400 watts, and so on... or in other words, each of those plants, will grow faster and produce larger flowers, in any given period of time (or in even less time), than one plant grown under 100 watts, when given the same space per plant.

    What's adequate for lighting as a bare minimum, to keep them alive, isn't exactly ideal in terms of yield.

    Using the bare minimum puts a LOT of your effort to waste, for a very minimal gain, when virtually the same effort with just a hair more light and an extra bottle of nutes, could get you five or ten times the yield in a shorter period of time.
    A more intense light can save you money, by speeding up the growth process, growing more herb in a shorter period of time, and by encouraging a faster or shorter total life cycle.

    There is an 'accumulatory' effect that takes place when you increase the wattage/lumens hovering over a certain area. For instance while you 'can' grow in 2 x 4 closet using a total 100watt CFLs and keep a few plants alive in doing so, with the one in the very center doing best of all, if your exhaust is decent, you can instead use a 400watt or even a 600watt HPS in the same space to much, MUCH greater effect... one single plant under 400 watts will vastly out-perform and over-produce multiple plants under fewer watts, and it will mature and do so MUCH more quickly. It's cheaper and more efficient in the short-term, and in the long run. :)

    If you don't have a specific reason to use CFLs (such as; absolutely nothing you can do about temps for instance, or strict initial cost restrictions etc.) then try for a 150 - 400watt HID, even if only still for a single plant.... a cutting/clone or REPUTABLE feminized seed source is crucial, if you plan on growing just one, single plant.

    More of your watts convert to lumens which the plants can use, when using HIDs, and it's virtually the same effort for many multiple times the yield. Less than double the effort, for months of extra smoke.

    It is literally just a matter of tipping a watering can for a few extra seconds, to wet either a slightly larger amount of medium, or to more-frequently wet the same medium you'd use with lower-powered lights.

    If you're an average tolerance user, and smoke a few days a week, you could go from spending months and months to produce just a week or two's worth of smoke (then it's right back to the clinics, or dealers), to instead producing several months worth, in less time, allowing you to grow plenty enough to last you between crops.. all just by upgrading your lights a tiny bit.

    If you value your time, and if you dislike the thought of going back to paying good money for questionable herb, only a few short weeks after you've spent months growing as little as ten or fifteen grams, then a better light is the key. :smoke:

    150w incandescent = 2,550 lumens or only 17 lumens per watt

    150w halogen = 3000 lumens or 20 lumens per watt

    150w of Fluorescents = 9,000 lumens or 60 lumens per watt

    150w of Compact Fluorescents = 10,500 lumens or 70 lumens per watt

    150w Metal Halide = 13,500 lumens or 90 lumens per watt

    150w High Pressure Sodium = 16,000 lumens or 107 lumens per watt[/quote]
    my budget fur lights around now is only 50-60 dollars I really do plan on going h.i.d or h.p.s after this grow
     
  10. Would using a 150 watt hps be better then cfls? How many plants could I get ?
     
  11. Depends on the light itself. If you get a self ballasted reflector and bulb then you could probably only grow 1 good plant, but if you have a decent footprint of light then you just need to keep them in the lights footprint and they will be getting enough light. I'm not sure on how big of a space you will get with a 150w ideally, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be that big.

    However a 150w HPS + CFL side lighting would work great for 2-3 plants in a good environment.
     
  12. [quote name='"morange"']Depends on the light itself. If you get a self ballasted reflector and bulb then you could probably only grow 1 good plant, but if you have a decent footprint of light then you just need to keep them in the lights footprint and they will be getting enough light. I'm not sure on how big of a space you will get with a 150w ideally, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be that big.

    However a 150w HPS + CFL side lighting would work great for 2-3 plants in a good environment.[/quote]

    After looking into h.p.s I found out it's just going to run to hot for my area.. I think.I'm going to go with around 150 Watts of cfls on just 1, plant will I do decent?
     
  13. Yes you should be able to have a nice yield with 150w of cfl on a single plant. I advise you to try and spread it out over lots of smaller cfls instead of 1-2 larger watt lights, because they don't penetrate very far. The most efficient way to use them is to have them all over your plant and some on the sides, to make sure everything is getting light.
     
  14. [quote name='"morange"']Yes you should be able to have a nice yield with 150w of cfl on a single plant. I advise you to try and spread it out over lots of smaller cfls instead of 1-2 larger watt lights, because they don't penetrate very far. The most efficient way to use them is to have them all over your plant and some on the sides, to make sure everything is getting light.[/quote]

    Thank you! You just made me feel so much.better about my.grow! With people telling me if I use.” Shitty cfls” my. Yield will be less then 6 grams
     
  15. I got a quarter ounce on a butchered auto flowering plant with 150w light very poorly treated (first grow). As long as you provide the proper environment the plant will do just fine and yield more than 6 grams surely.

    The only thing is, with CFLs just don't expect to get very dense flowers, they tend to be fluffier and looser, but that doesn't mean you can't get a nice harvest.
     
  16. [quote name='"morange"']I got a quarter ounce on a butchered auto flowering plant with 150w light very poorly treated (first grow). As long as you provide the proper environment the plant will do just fine and yield more than 6 grams surely.

    The only thing is, with CFLs just don't expect to get very dense flowers, they tend to be fluffier and looser, but that doesn't mean you can't get a nice harvest.[/quote]

    Thanks you're my new favorite person! The strain I'm growing btw is lemon skunk haze by greenhouse seeds i guess it won cannabis cup in 09 I'm very excited now to say the least
     
  17. JJ, props to the good advice you got from the others here. Hopefully I can add a few other points to help as well.
    One problem with lumens, other than being hard to define, is that manufacturers rate their product on initial lumens for a new bulb. Over time, fluorescents especially, degrade to 60 - 70% of their initial light output. Best point made by Morange, Toasty & Bad Kitty, however, is that HID is much more efficient at converting watts to lumens / light output. ENNYWAY, sooner or later we all just reference the wattage.

    OPTIONS - Sun Systems makes an integrated 150W HPS ballast / reflector with bulb that you can pick up for $100. There are some internet specials for 250W systems for $125 - 150. I bought one of the SunSystems 150W a few years ago to experiment with new strains and to play with in any number of ways. I grew out a couple of plants under it once, and if memory serves I got about 3 1/2 oz. of cured & trimmed product. By comparison of efficiency, if you stick with indoor grows, a 400W will be in your future, and your yield will be 4 - 5 times higher.But with 150W, you should keep your plant "footprint" under the light to 2, absolutely no more than 3 sq. ft. A mylar hanging curtain will definitely help by the time you get to bloom. The heat with the 150W should not be very much worse than equiv. wattage of CFL's (those DO put out considerable heat as well!!!)
    If you have to go CFL's I'd recommend using the 42 to 45 watt actuals. To my experience, this size is the largest wattage that will still fit in a standard socket. 65W or 125W CFL's usually take a special "mogul" style socket like HPS bulbs. Two will be minimum for initial veg of a couple of plants, but as soon as you can, go to four. Go to Home Depot and get reflectors - the simple aluminum clip-on style used for work lights. Last time I bought a couple they were only 6 or 8 bucks each. They position easily and can be re-purposed later for holding mother plants (one 42W will keep a decent mother) and for rooting future clones. Side-light your plant(s) as much as possible rather than hanging directly overhead. This results in better coverage than when your canopy thickens from overhead light and nothing below grows.
    Try to get a short height strain of plant, typically an indica-dominant variety. As a general rule, they mature quicker than Sativa dominant strains, which are more prone to elongating between nodes, or stretching, under less than ideal light. That reduces your final yield even further.
    Final advice - just do it!!! Don't be discouraged with your first try, keep improving your equipment as you go, and have fun! Almost none of us started with the perfect setup, but we started.

    Now, tell Granny you need an operation, & buy the HPS!!!!
     

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