Need help cooling 6kw CGE w/ Undercurrent

I am just getting into the hydro game and I need some tips on cooling within my budget. I am going for a CGE grow so I won't be venting outside at all. I will have the room well insulated and the ballasts, reseviors, and all other misc items which can sit away from the grow area will be located outside the room.

Going to be running two rooms with the CC undercurrent system.Undercurrent systems
The flower room will have 6 1kw lights with three UC 8-site stations and will be 17'x12' in size. And the veg room is going to 8'x10' with two smaller 4site UC stations and 2 600 watt lights.

I have approximately $3500 (give or take about 600) and I need to figure a way to cool both rooms. I think I have 3 options...

A. Vent the hoods from outside to outside on a closed loop and run split AC in each room. I would be running 24k BTU split AC 9.5k BTU split AC which equates to about 2800 overall but then i have to deal with venting outside and the noise of fans. I want to be discreet.

B. Try to cut a deal and buy a nice water chiller and run Ice boxes. Iceboxes will run about 200 per at my local shop and I would need at least 7 to cool both rooms. On top of that chillers are around 2400 for a 2hp which is about the strength I would need but thats a bit over my budget. Just wondering if its worth it. Also Im wondering if I could rig an AC to chill that much water? I could buy a 24000btu ac which would equate to a 2hp chiller but would it have the same effect or be able to handle the workload?

C. Water cool my lights with Fresca Sols and buy weaker split ACs to make up for the small budget I am allowed. Fresca Sols I read a few threads on people running Frescas with 8k btu ACs and I am pretty sure if I spent around 300 i could have enough cooling power to chill the lights. Then I would just buy two of those $800 split ACs and let them take care of the excess heat in the room. Plus I live in MI so the heating on the ACs might come in handy during the winter.

I'm leaning toward option C because the split ACs can help regulate temps at night while the water keeps the lights at bay during the day....Any input on the Iceboxes or the Fresca sols would be greatly appreciated too.

You have $3500 for everything or just cooling? If you're hell bent on water cooling, you'll need every penny, and then some, for cooling...so hopefully you've got the rest of your gear squared away.

I've started tip toeing into some water cooling and know that it works, but it is expensive to get into and if you don't adequately size your system(s), it's really pointless to do.

The 2hp (2 ton) ChillKing would barely be enough for your big room and the 6k in lights...I believe it would be about enough to negate heat from the lights, but it would have a hard time actually cooling the room. You'd be left to cool the space and considering the size and number of plants you'd be talking about, you'll likely need a pretty hefty dehumidifier, which means more heat. You'll probably need to look at the commercial line starting at 3 tons for both rooms at a minimum. I don't want to say much more because I'll totally start sounding like an advertisement, and that is not my intention. Suffice to say, I once thought I knew what I needed, then started actually working with a vendor to find I was horribly misinformed about what I needed. Water cooling is very efficient once it's up and running, but terribly expensive to get to that point.

A. Vent the hoods from outside to outside on a closed loop and run split AC in each room. I would be running 24k BTU split AC 9.5k BTU split AC which equates to about 2800 overall but then i have to deal with venting outside and the noise of fans. I want to be discreet.

I think the dual zone mini split may be the best option for you in the near term, but again, 24,000 btu may struggle a little in the big room. I know the math concerning btus and watts says that a 1,000 watt light requires 3,410 btus of cooling, but that does not account for radiant heat. Hydro Innovations recommends you do the math on 4,500 btus per 1,000 watts of light (even more if the ballast is in the room), I think this may be a smidge excessive, but it also provides a little buffer. If all of your math comes out even, then your compressor won't really be able to cycle...it'll run constantly which destroys the efficiency of any system be it water or air cooling. I'll find a link to their calculator and supply it here.

I have a much smaller setup and really no experience with something as large as you're describing, but I currently air cool light(s) with outside air, vented outside. I believe you'd need some massive cooling power if you didn't vent all your lights out of the space.

B. Try to cut a deal and buy a nice water chiller and run Ice boxes. Iceboxes will run about 200 per at my local shop and I would need at least 7 to cool both rooms. On top of that chillers are around 2400 for a 2hp which is about the strength I would need but thats a bit over my budget. Just wondering if its worth it. Also Im wondering if I could rig an AC to chill that much water? I could buy a 24000btu ac which would equate to a 2hp chiller but would it have the same effect or be able to handle the workload?

There is a vendor here in Texas (WaterCooledGardens) that as far as the businesses are concerned is not associated with ChillKing or HydroInnovations, but the WCG guy (I forget his name) and Steven from HI are friends...went to school together or something. Anyway, WCG must get the sweet wholesale deal because none of his (ChillKing) prices are close to MSRP. That may be a site for you to check out, but if you can get WCG and your local shop into some kind of bidding thing, more power to you! Actually, reading again...if you can get a 2hp ChillKing for $2400, that's the place you probably want to be talking to. WCG has it for $2650, which is 15% off MSRP, but his 8" Ice Boxes are $160.

"Just wondering if it's worth it" I believe if you can spend the money, it is, but it's an awful big chunk of change to get up off of!

"Also Im wondering if I could rig an AC to chill that much water?" That's actually all the ChillKing chillers are....an AC converted to cool water instead of air. It is possible to make yourself, but one large pain in the arse, and some AC knowledge would be a great benefit. I found one guy that posted his homemade chiller from a 6k btu window unit for a salt water aquarium. It was a mess to look at and he eventually abandoned it for leaks, I believe. I've torn down a little window unit to see about it...it was not worth the effort for me. The 24k chiller and AC would be fairly comparable in what they could handle, except that the chiller would be more efficient.

C. Water cool my lights with Fresca Sols and buy weaker split ACs to make up for the small budget I am allowed. Fresca Sols I read a few threads on people running Frescas with 8k btu ACs and I am pretty sure if I spent around 300 i could have enough cooling power to chill the lights. Then I would just buy two of those $800 split ACs and let them take care of the excess heat in the room. Plus I live in MI so the heating on the ACs might come in handy during the winter.

C is essentially the same as B. Whether you are running water around the lamp or using Ice Boxes to cool the air coming off the lamp, both are considered water cooling and would require the same amount of chiller cooling power and supplemental AC. So you'd still be dropping a bunch of money on a chiller and associated equipment, and if you didn't spend enough then you would have to supplement with regular air conditioning.

I don't know if I've helped any or just taken up a lot of your time for no reason...I hope the former! Below are some links that may be helpful, I'm not affiliated with any of these sites, but I am a fan of water cooling and definitely moving in that direction. I was working out a system to meet my needs (2hp ChillKing, IceBoxes, etc for my 1400w space) then stumbled on a .5 hp ECO Plus on clearance for just under $500 delivered and jumped on it. It cooled my 1k space and the nute rez nicely in the milder months, but ran constantly and barely kept the temps around 88F during the summer (CO2 injected, so the temps were livable, but I didn't like it!) I've just ordered the Ideal Air 12,000btu mini split inverter for this summer. Its line set is flexible, sealed and on a vacuum, so it is truly a DIY install. They don't make a dual zone to my knowledge and they're a bit more expensive than other mini splits, but I don't need an AC guy which probably negates the price difference.

All of these sites can be contacted with any questions and they will respond in a reasonable amount of time and provide good info for your particular situation.
Watercooledgardens.com :: FAQs WCG FAQ
http://hydroinnovati...art.REV.1.1.pdf HydroInnovations Cooling Sizing Chart - Interactive
Mini Split Air Conditioner : Ductless Air Conditioning : Mini Split Heat Pump MiniSplit Warehouse - this is not where I purchased the Ideal Air, but this guy is a sponsor on another forum and is friendly to the cause. He'll be glad to work with you, answer questions and give you deals on multiple systems from what I've read of his posts elsewhere. From what I gather, even though his systems' line sets don't necessarily come on a vacuum, he's not had anyone have a problem with installation on their own.
https://www.thehydroponicstore.com/ This is where I ordered the IdealAir...priced under MSRP and UPS shipping which was about $35 rather than freight at another site which was $120.

whew! Ok, for real I'm done now!

Good luck!

Thanks for the insight. I'm still reviewing my options here but I have a bit of time before we put the room together so maybe I will just see what deals I can score before my deadline. I really want to go watercooled in the end because it is a bit more efficient plus then I wouldnt have the fans rocking all night long. I definitely should look into those ideal airs though. Not having to deal with a heating and cooling guy is definitely a plus.

I'm sold on water cooling, period. Contact the WCG guy or Hydro Innovations directly, either one will be glad to give you a break down of what's appropriate for your situation. I personally think if you stick to their suggestions, you may wind up with a little more system than you absolutely need, but I'd rather have a little more and room to grow (no pun intended!) than be undersized.

Drive on!

Water cooled is cool, but adds a level of headaches and complexity to the equation. I've built an 8x10 sealed room and just swapped ACs. I'm only running three 600w lights and a 2 burner co2 generator. A 1 ton portable couldn't cut the mustard. I'm replacing it with a 2 ton mini split, which is overkill for my system. I uses to run an undercurrent system, but am going with drain to waste in the sealed room.

Aside from your lights, you'll need a dehumidifier, and a co2 source. In addition, all the fans and other equipment in the room that generate heat, water cooling can't help those. Finally, you'll need chillers for each of your undercurrent systems, too. Your cooling costs will be crazy. I suggest a 2 ton dual zone mini split, and vent your lights with outside air. If you're not running vented hoods, you'll need at least a 2 ton in flower, and a 1 ton in veg. (4k BTU per 1k light, min. I'd also recommend 10x 600w lights rather than 6x 1ks. You can almost double your yield by spreading your light source out over more area.

What are you using to control your co2/temps/humidity? I have a GrowOp Atmos D-1 controller which is super configurable, and reasonably priced compared to competing products.

You'll want to be sure that your AC units have the Auto Resume feature, if you plan to control them with an atmospheric controller.

Another option is to consider using a flip box (each ballast can power two lights, one at a time, on 12 hour shifts), and split your big room into two flower rooms, venting air from a temp controlled lung room. You'll actually use a little less energy with about 1/2 the equipment cost. Your AC won't have to kick on and off so often, which uses a lot of extra power. You can keep the same temp 24/7 and it will be easier to control 3kw of heat 24/7 than 6kw of heat for 12 hours per day. If you run this configuration, you can get away with a single 1 ton AC unit, but be sure to get a DC inverter type, which is like 22 SEER, that will save you on your monthly utility bill. This configuration might allow you to not need a dehumidifier in your flower room, too.

Got some good advice elsewhere and I think I'm going to vent my lights outside and then water-cool the rest of the room with iceboxes. This way i save money vs AC. I don't have to have a heating and cooling tech come visit. So if you guys were venting my system how would you do it? And how strong would the vent fans need to be?

I have a CGE thread going too. Do not purchase a multi-zone Mini-split. Go with one unit.

Another point, I'm about to start my new CGE thread. I attempted a closed loop system, like the one you are designing. The closed loop resulted in the ambient temperature not rising enough in the environment, to utilize co2. It was also difficult to prevent CO2 from escaping through cracks in the hoods, etc. I used tape, had great connections, etc. Seemingly, CO2 kept escaping.