Seeds haven't popped up after 4 days, should i be worried?

Hello blades, the title says it all. I bought some Biobizz Coco-Mix 4 days ago. I rinsed it with water PH'ed at 5.8 and used a drop of Superthrive and 1ml/l Biobizz Rootjuice. I then planted the seeds straight into coco (i always used the paper towel method to germinate seeds in the past, but i read that planting seeds straight into coco or any other medium can be used to avoid any unescessary stress). Its the fourth day since i planted the seed and still they haven't popped out of the coco.

For the first two days i had them in the dark, then i lit my 250 w cfl but had a problem, temp rose at 85F+ and 10 hours passed by before i understood it and changed the setup. I used a budget fan to extract the air and temps sit at 74F right now. It's been like that for 12 hours. Is it possible that the excessive heat fucked up my seeds or am i just impatient? Anything i could do to find out what's wrong?

Thank you very much for any answers. The seeds are White Russian, Acapulco Gold, Red Dragon and Blueberry Gum, i would be very sad if i lost them:(

If you germinated they would have probably sprouted by now. If you just planted the seed it may take longer. The depth in the soil makes a difference also.
Give em 3-4 more days, then you can worry for sure..
A 250 watt light is a little to much for seedling. Drop down to a 23 watt cfl or, fluorescent is better at this stage.

Growing the Barney's AG next winter so keep me posted on that one....

Yeah, i figured so. I know a 250w is too much for 4 seedlings right now, i have it in a distance of about 20 cm from them. I have put it vertically in my growtent. My friend, believe it or not, right now, i have got money only for the absolutely nescessary (that means food basically). I thought i would have to give about 30$ for 4 23w CFLs(everything is on the high side concerning prices here), i would also need a y-splitter or something like that.

The previous time i started some seeds, i used this same 250w CFL to germinate 4 seedlings and they did just fine! I know its not the best in terms of efficiency, i had heat issues in the beginning and thought i would have to get some CFLs instead of eating . But when i made some customizations in ventilation and temps dropped from 85 to 72, i thought i should be ok.

Now that we are speaking, one (the AG!!) has poked out of the ground! I have heard the best about this strain, hope it does good(the babies i have in flower right now are losing many leaves daily:(). I hope the other ones will have poked out of the ground too until tomorrow!!

They take longer sometimes when you plant them to deep or, if you just bury the seed in the soil it may have to turn itself around so the tap root is down.
They don't need much light till the roots start developing. One 23 watt cfl 2' above the plant will do for now.

Flowering plants is sometimes normal in late bloom to turn yellow and die

I really hope this is just the case, and the other seedlings pop up just fine! Concerning my flowering plants they are in the 4th week of flowering, its too early for the mass death of leaves that they are experiencing. Budding seems to be progressing for now however.

I really hope this is just the case, and the other seedlings pop up just fine! Concerning my flowering plants they are in the 4th week of flowering, its too early for the mass death of leaves that they are experiencing. Budding seems to be progressing for now however.

Sometimes it takes 5 or 6 days.

The heat did not bother your seeds. The ground is a good insulator and they want to feel some warmth anyway, to mimic spring.

Vertical lighting is useless until the plants are as tall as the light. Go horizontal until they are 6 to 8 inches tall.

Make sure you are adding a little water everyday to keep the coco surrounding the seed moist. This is especially important in high temps.

74 is too cold. Aim for 76 to 78 for right now if you can.

Thank you for the advice SCMC. I will make sure to attach the reflector to my CFL, i thought vertical would be better in terms of heat and efficiency (because of the 360 degree angle of the light, compared to the reflector, where half of it is used). 250w CFL is too much right now, so what i say would not make sense in this phase.

I will make sure to have the CFL with the reflector for ~3 weeks+, until then i hope i will have bought a 250w HPS dual spectrum, a cooltube and a 4" RVK fan to cool it for my smaller tent. If i am lucky and things go as planned, i will grow 2 autoflowers with this light combo as soon as the babies i am growing go to the bigger tent. Even if i don't grow the 2 autoflowers, a 250w HPS with cooltube is much more preferred compared to a 250w CFL in terms of efficiency for the later stage of veg. I addded a little bit of tap water ph'ed at 5.8 on 2 two of the pots that seemed a bit drier.

I've got some update...

1)Acapulco Gold is 1 week old since when it sprouted from the coco and it has only one set of true leaves. It has a light green color,its lighter green compared to the rest.

2)White Russian sprouted from the ground at about the same time, so its 1 week old too. Today it broke its seed shell. I can see the cotelydons and the first set of leaves forming.

3)Pineapple Chunk is 4 days old, it broke its seed shell today. It seems to be advancing faster than the rest.

4)Red Dragon is 1 week old, it has 1 set of leaves too, they are a bit strange, but they they have a deep green color.

They are all sitting in 3 gal pots. I give them a small amount of water everyday (~100 ml). The coco dries really fast on the surface, but its wet at a depth of 1 cm. Temps are on the high side from the time i decided to use my CFL horizontally with a reflector again, they range from 81-85F. I have got the CFL at a distance of 5", i remind you that its 250W. I know a lot of energy goes wasted.I still haven't got the money to get better ventilation, i am working on it. RH is low, at about 30-40%. How should my seedlings look for 1 week old?Am i wrong to assume that they have stayed a bit behind? Last time i watered, i gave them water PH'ed at 5.8 with 1ml/l Rootjuice and a 1 drop of Superthrive/liter.

I am sorry for the lack of pics, i will get a usb cable for my phone tomorrow.

Guys please, any ideas to fix this issue? Growth is almost zero the last few days, they should look definitely bigger. Still all of them have their cotyledons and 1 set of leaves at day 8 since i saw the first sprout. I also found a little spider in my growroom today, i let her live, i have heard it does damage to other harmful insects.

Why are you giving them a small amount of water every day?

Common knowledge says to water to completion and runoff every time, and to allow the media to become less moist, after 2 or more days, before watering again.

You are probably drowning the roots. Generally my plants emerge without the seed shell still on them. Without pictures you will get very little assistance.

i'm with scmc too much water and they could damp off mine did.this time they get drop of clorox in water, quick soak, rinse, dry then soaked and germinate in paper towels. my last three seeds damped out.

Why are you giving them a small amount of water every day?

Common knowledge says to water to completion and runoff every time, and to allow the media to become less moist, after 2 or more days, before watering again.

You are probably drowning the roots. Generally my plants emerge without the seed shell still on them. Without pictures you will get very little assistance.

Thanks for the answer, they became dry very quickly on the surface (higher temps than normal contributed to this) and i formed the wrong impression that this was how i should do it. I have them in 3 gal pots and i figured i should not water until runoff because they are very young and it would take a gallon. Nevertheless this is what i did last night.

I watered each of them until i saw runoff, with tap water and a bit of Rootjuice at 5.8 PH. I figure i will not have to water for a couple of days minimum. If i knew what we discussed earlier (in the PPMs thread), i would have given them a tiny dose of nutes. I tried to follow your nutrient profile and i gave the White Russian a little bit of nutes (~40-10-20) like you said. All my plants emerged with the seed shells on them, the Pineapple Chunk still has it and White Russian's leaves came out very weird, the seed shell still hasn't allowed the cotyledons to appear. I promise i will post pics tonight.

i'm with scmc too much water and they could damp off mine did.this time they get drop of clorox in water, quick soak, rinse, dry then soaked and germinate in paper towels. my last three seeds damped out.

Hope this is not the case. I could lose these seeds and would have to start new ones, its a terrifying scenario.

seedlings need zero nutes for the first 11 days or so, or until you see 3 alternating internodes. also, in coco with seedlings, you don't need to water every day. once you start feeding, then you can feed every day. remember to get a good 10-15% run-off every feed.

seedlings need zero nutes for the first 11 days or so, or until you see 3 alternating internodes. also, in coco with seedlings, you don't need to water every day. once you start feeding, then you can feed every day. remember to get a good 10-15% run-off every feed.

We feed the coco. The coco builds up a charge of elements, giving it a sort of "high pressure." The plant has a lower elemental pressure than the plant and to achieve equilibrium the plant draws elements in from the media around the roots via osmosis.

I agree that in the beginning the plant requires very little food. But, the number of times you water, and the length of time between each watering during this stage means that the timing of your first feeding is very important. Typically, when starting a seed I will give a light nutrient feeding the second time I water, or around the 6th day of life, complete with something for the plant to munch on. This is assuming everything is going well and the plants look healthy. Something like General Organics BioRoot 1-1-1 at 7.5ml nets something like a 21-9-18 and isn't so much nutrition that it is going to mess something up. Add in just a little something Cal-Nitrate based, with some magnesium, like 2.5ml of Cal-Mag plus 2-0-0 for another 14ppm of nitrogen plus the Calcium and Magnesium for the coco cation bank, and the solution is dialed. <-- This is hypothetical, and can be achieved with a number of nutrients systems.

In your case Lowryder you cannot go by the age of the plants because despite being nearly a week old they are about as progressed as a first day seedling with the seed still on the cotlydon. You should pop all the seeds off your plants, carefully, because if they haven't shed them in, what, 9 days now then they probably aren't going to at all. The 3 gallon containers are not going to help you, I remember you proposing the idea a while back and everyone saying not to do it, to use party cups and transplant up. It is not surprising that your seedling is having a problem making a go of it in that container. But, they are where they are and not much can be done about it. Use the weight of the planter to determine how much moisture remains and only water/feed when required. Watering on a schedule is not the best option in this case. When you see your second true leaf set developing then we should talk more but until that time you have to try and get these plants growing.

What has been described in this thread is completely perplexing. It makes, to me, absolutely no sense when described, and, at this point...

Pics or it didn't happen.

Edited by SCMC, 10 April 2012 - 03:11 PM.

You are right SCMC, despite being 10 days since they sprouted, its like they are on day 1. I am pissed by my incompetence, and my i screwed my timeline for good. Choosing 3 gal pots to begin them was clearly a big mistake, i never had a problem starting them in their final pots in soil and thought it would be the same. WRONG. I can describe you the whole process of what i have done up until that day if you want.

Some pics to make this thread less confusing. Sorry for the quality of the pics. If they go on like this i am thinking about tossing them off.

Edited by lowryder21, 10 April 2012 - 11:27 PM.
Replacing of photos

I edited the pics, hope its better now. I am watering when top 2 centimeteres of the coco have gone dry from when i understood my mistake. When it has reached that level, i water again until i see runoff. Is this the wrong way to water them? It takes about 4 days to reach that level. I am still undecided on whether i should give them a tiny dose of nutes or continue giving them only tap water and rootjuice.

i agree, remove the seed-caps, a always do. i don't think the fact that your containers are 3 gallon has anything to do with anything. it just means you have lots of room. i don't feed for the first 2 weeks or so, but do what works for you. since you're not really feeding, you don't need to worry about run-off. you don't need to saturate them, just keep the medium fairly damp for the roots. once you start feeding, treat them like you would when feeding.

I removed the seed caps. A while ago i watered Acapulco Gold. The solution i gave it was 0.4 EC. PH of the water was at 5.9. I measured PPM and PH of runoff.

PPM:0.6
PH:5

So, the water that came out was 0.2 EC higher and 1 point lower concerning PH. How does this seem to you guys? Any potential problems arising?

The pH sounds way off.

Should be 6.3 to 6.8pH for most grows. This is a result of the coco buffering the pH and taking elements from the solution.

I dunno man. You have a lot working against you here from the sound of things. I'm going to end this little back and forth by wishing you luck in your endeavor. The info is available here if you'd like to grow plants "the other way."

I removed the seed caps. A while ago i watered Acapulco Gold. The solution i gave it was 0.4 EC. PH of the water was at 5.9. I measured PPM and PH of runoff.

PPM:0.6
PH:5

So, the water that came out was 0.2 EC higher and 1 point lower concerning PH. How does this seem to you guys? Any potential problems arising?

you should be fine, just relax. the reason your ec came out higher, is the same reason the ph is off. (although i "still" think you shouldn't be feeding) the run-off washes out the built-up nutes, so of course this will result in a higher ppm/ec. on exit. so it only makes sense that this increase will effect your ph also. it really doesn't matter what your run-off readings are. as long as they're correct when you feed. since you're in coco, you're hydro, so optimal ph is 5.8.