I've had a "downstem" bong for awhile now, and cleaning individual pieces can get repetitive if you use it as a daily driver. That's why I went ahead and purchased a quality "stemless" bong. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fgTJchT13k]Toro Froth 3 - YouTube[/ame] It has much less drag, easier to clean and the design is bulletproof. Another perk of stemless is less chance of ruining a downstem by getting it stuck or hitting it against the tube, if you're careless.
If you get a carbon adapter it'll keep the glass MUCH cleaner I've had this for about 3 months and I have to say, having to always hold up a bong like this can get a little annoying. I still love it though
[quote name='"Rokintreasr"'] If my actions are considered "juvenile" for only supporting quality glass, then so be it. Your statement about plastic being found in China food only goes to support the fact that for the most part China does not produce quality items. I'm not proclaiming to be an expert in anything.. I have good weed and good glass, so there's nothing to worry about.[/quote] Rokin, you are out of line, and far outmatched. I love scientific glass as much as any other glass head. But you are a scrub. Go get excited about the three stupid ass dots that you think are so beautiful on your stemline. Good job with the "good weed and glass" part. Congratulations. Flipping burgers did SOMETHING for you.
[quote name='"Haikuman"'] Rokin, you are out of line, and far outmatched. I love scientific glass as much as any other glass head. But you are a scrub. Go get excited about the three stupid ass dots that you think are so beautiful on your stemline. Good job with the "good weed and glass" part. Congratulations. Flipping burgers did SOMETHING for you.[/quote] I don't know who you think you are but he actually does know what he's talking about. While you're the scrub flipping burgers, some of us are actually doing things with our lives to be able to afford quality glass, and can clearly tell the difference. Congrats on proving yourself a jackass...
Does it make you better than anyone else that you can afford quality glass? Does it make you the bigger man to insult him in the same way he insulted Rokintreasr? I'm glad that you're able to afford quality glass. Some of us can't. Doesn't make you better than anyone else. Doesn't make it wrong for people to buy 'china' glass. To act otherwise is just being snobby.
I would compare glass to lighters. You can pay 69 cents for a crack lighter from the gas station that will do the job, maybe not a perfect flame, poor quality or won't last as long as say a $70 Herb Iron that will give you a completely different smoking experience. It's all up to the user as to how much their smoking experience is worth to them. As for me, I'll gladly blow an entire college kid's paycheck on a piece of glass that I will enjoy day in and day out. Not to say that I didn't get as high back in freshman year when I was rocking blunts and 3 foot acrylic bongs, but now it just feels like a more refined experience every time I use one of my pieces of quality glass.
Once again, when someone assumes that just anyone in the medical community can buy an illadelph, HVY, Ehle, Roor, any time they like, it only exemplifies how spoiled, entitled, and incredibly naive that person is. I've traveled the world over the last few decades specifically to learn, and educate others about cannabis. I've smoked from a fair handful of impressive bongs in my time. But I've never been one to value shiny possessions over human life, when I had spare money it was put into bettering my situation and that of my patients and the local communities I'm participating with. I have bongs to fill boxes and boxes, but 99% of them came from grateful patients and I take offense to children scoffing at gifts from those whose lives have been benefited or spared by my work or help. I am just a bit sorry for tearing that kid a new one, however, some folks have some living and learning to do, and should spend a bit more time being appreciative for what they have now, and a little less judgmental. Especially seeing as how everyone is entitled to their own opinion... right? So enjoy it while it lasts, kiddos, because you never know when reality is going to hit, and you're suddenly in the position many MANY people are, whether it's due to an illness, or simple joblessness and mistakes. I've seen plenty of cocky kids who once did nothing but point out others foibles and misfortune in order to feel better about themselves, eventually grow up into humble, happy human beings who get a lot more satisfaction out of life. I hope the same can happen for you one day.
Hell, people call Weed Star and Black Leaf "china glass" but my Weed Star tube was cheap, works great, and has lasted me multiple years now. My Black Leaf bubblers are equally awesome. Sure, I could have spent all that money on one nice high-end tube, but then I'd only have one nice high-end tube instead of all the cool shit I have now.
Everyone is getting butt hurt and this thread is getting lame. I'll make an attempt to set the record straight and let's all move along. The love of quality glass is either in some people or it's not. First off I'd like to say bongs are my second to last way of smoking, to joints. Everyone on the site praises bongs and I got tired of mine after being a daily smoker of 3 years. 1-2 bowls was never enough for my gf and I. After having to hide it for a few months, we realized how dramatic the tolerance boost was. That being said, in many threads across GC people think their bongs are offshoots of their dongs and knowledge of bud. I personally have a Medicali single trees, HiSi downstem, Inline perc precooler. Not too shabby - nice medical grade glass. What it all comes down to is durability and percolation. China glass is notorious for being 'off' and cheap/weak/fragile. I understand why the one guy said boo to the china glass. Sooner or later it's going to be broken as predictions will tell us. I've dropped my Medicali a couple of times and it has never failed me yet. My gf dropped it from her knees onto cement with an outdoor thick carpet. It fell from my dresser onto my bedro floor another time. It has also tipped over on carpet a few times. You get what you pay for in terms of quality. As far as buying a named bong over no name will likely be no big change as most nice glass is just replicated so no matter what the percolation will be the same until the technology changes. For instance, china/named glass can come downstemmed, stemless, ice notches, inlines, maybe showerheads, and trees. I'm pretty sure the ONLY thing out right now that you can't get in china glass and it would actually make a huge difference in smoothness is a waffle perc like from PHX and who ever else makes it. So in reguards, I understand why he felt china glass isn't up to par. On another hand, people think it's a self expression thing so if you use china glass not 'taking it as serious'. Yet on the other hand the others are right, china glass or big names, they all will HIT the same. No one is right, there is always 2 sides to everything. The glass is half empty or it's half full. Either way, there is a glass - and it's only filled in your perspective. Good thread idea, I've been wondering about stemless myself actually. Never saw one until I signed up here.
^ I agree with your post, but I'd also like to add... If you have a cheap bong that you never, ever drop and clean it often enough that you never have to shake it too hard or anything, it's very possible that it could last you forever at that rate. On the other hand, a thick, high-end glass bong is much more resistant to breaking but not impervious to it. You drop it from a high enough height, on hard enough ground, or on a weak enough point, it's still very possible that it will break. For people who have a lot of money to spend, that might not even matter much. But to someone who has to make every dollar count, the risk of breaking a $90 bong is much easier to handle than the risk of breaking a $300 bong. Regardless of the fact that the more expensive one is less likely to break, the chance is still there. Not a counter point, just an addition.
Right I wanted to hit on that also but was going on forever anyway. A well loved piece can last forever, and even medical glass isn't invincible. Lol the 3rd day after I bought my bong I told my gf to pack a bowl and she puts it in her knees for some dumbass reason and it lands on the outdoor carpet. I wanted to kill her!!!! My Medicali bowl got chipped but usable, we lost the matching ash catcher and downstem. I got lucky. Now all my expensive pieces are investments for having smooth scientific purposes. Like the Vortex Gravity bong, Incredibowl, Chameleon Typhoon, SSV, etc etc. IMO those stranger things are pieces you guys have to try! Generic waterpipe days are gone.
I lol'd right thar, sorry. Stone Glassworks makes the waffle, and few artists have used his design. PHx uses the honeycomb which is kind of a fail disk perc As for "Chinese" vs quality glass, the difference is the build quality. The glass used in cheap bongs could be tainted with any sort of chemical or some additive. And the craftsmanship just isn't there, the welds are sloppy, angles can be off, percs can be crooked, and the glass could be varying thicknesses in different areas. They can't spend the time making a decent tube because they have quota of bongs to make everyday. With high quality tubes, you know that the artist took the time to make sure that everything is nearly perfect. There may still be some flaws, but extremely minor compared to the cheaper tube. But price =/= quality. I'll take a $100 beaker tube from ssfg over a $200 Weed Star any day.
If you actually love scientific glass as you say, you would not be dissing the worked dot's on my stemline You're bitching about my job, but yet you know exactly what my new tube looks like and what I love about my tube. And I have no idea who you are... Shows how much life YOU have And if you say you can't "afford" quality glass you are simply ignorant. You can purchase a quality tube with showerhead downstem for $70. ^^Flat out ignorance IMO^^
I can't believe you people are still bringing price into this. YOU CAN BUY QUALITY GLASS FOR THE SAME PRICE AS CHINA! <You see what I did there? To everyone who is complaining about a $60 tube: quit buying fucking weed bc you obviously have deeper financial issues. And no, junkie, I don't think I'm 'better' than anyone else...I just work my ass off to provide income so that I can afford to have the nice things that I have. So yes, I will get upset when a whiney 18 year old who wants a bong complains about how much they are and everyone tells him China glass is the way to go. The fact remains that they are probably an irresponsible person by nature, and therefore more accident prone; so why buy something that isn't quality and will end up being replacement soon after anyways?
I really think it has something to do with valuing hard earned money or not valuing it, and with treating money like it's worth a bit less than it is... having an 'oh well' mentality of easy replacement. Besides that 9 out of 10 times we have kid spending hundreds of dollars on glass when they don't have their own apartments or houses, and when they already owe money on credit cards, indicating a certain shortage of financial sense or skewed priorities, I've noticed that many of the folks with expensive glass, tend to drop it and let friends drop it, CONSTANTLY! Some mature, responsible adults own nice glass, too, I've spent time and lived with several. Those are almost always the people who don't give those who don't have the same glass a hard time.. because, wouldn't it be less desirable if everyone had better glass than you could afford, and told you as such? Seeing as how it's just a pissing match to some people. In years of toking and traveling, and cleaning and shipping bongs through the mail so I have something waiting for me at a destination, I've never dropped or broken a piece myself. I have to take care of what I've got, and I have people who could really use the equipment I have, and I hand some out when I have spares.. if I'm just careless and break those extras, in my mind that's taking a bong out of the mouth of someone more in need, so to speak. My first glass bong was china glass, with a rubber grommet, nothing fancy, this was back in the day when it was the 'norm' or even better than the vast majority of folks had at the time. It still has its original bowl, all the bowls I ever bought for it, and its original glass downstem... it's all older than many of the legal members here. That china bong has seen more people and more use, than "insert vulgar quote here". The best china pipes with percs, are still better than the vast majority of glass currently in-use. This is because the top gear is in the very smallest minority. When patients can't steady themselves well, or if they suffer from seizures, or if they are shaky or suffer from conditions that cause minor 'twerks' or jitteryness, I'll help them steady it through the whole hit, supporting the piece myself for the most part, but letting them 'do the work' so they can feel like they are in control... haven't lost a piece yet, except for a small glass wand that someone dramatically (but accidentally) swiped off the table as they were about to leave, and a downstem that arrived cracked, and was used (for about 8 years) in a piece it didn't quite fit into. You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't, JD ) how many patients, aside from being unable to afford or locate glass locally, can't even trust themselves to hold it without breaking it. It breaks my heart... I used to sew 'perma-cozies' for one patient, so she could own her very first glass pieces. They stayed on the entire time, even during use, so the worst that could happen was a broken downstem or bowl. I'd change them for her, and give the old ones a wash every few weeks. But that is the kind of blind, bold naivete that I'm speaking about, when people say 'everyone' should have nice glass, or no glass at all. See how ridiculous that sounds yet, children? Or do you need more educating? Those are ludicrous, ridiculously spoiled, unimaginably immature, ill-informed and short-sighted opinions! I have seen and visited with many more people who can't afford glass, period, even the china stuff, than I have who can realistically and responsibly afford the high-end. And there's a reason for it. I won't say there's a sucker born every minute ( ) but some people are letting peer-pressure get to them. You can hear it in the way they squawk and parrot-repeat the jargon and trash talk, spread by the competitive local blowers, and they are buying on credit and often WAY ahead of their means. Folks need to relax and toke up. In reality, no one cares very much if Jim-Bob from CannaTown blew your tube, besides you, and that's just because you liked it and picked it out! If no one should have china glass, then how come folks own thousands of times more of it, than they do of the 'good stuff'... why are there hundreds of thousands of china pipes sold every month, and only hundreds of the name-brand pieces? Because, big shock, someone's interested, and at least a few people have some sense and their priorities in order. I'd LOVE a fancy name-brand bong! Maybe one day when I can justify spending that kind of money, or the next time I'm near a shop that sells reasonably priced top-notch glass and I've done everything I possibly can, for everyone I know, family, friends, patients, maybe then I'll invest a few hundred in some nice bongs. Until then though, I have more important things to do. Like supporting myself and my family, and growing and cooking the highest quality herb possible for myself, my loved ones and my patients! I have a hard time investing money on a turkey for Thanksgiving without feeling guilty and shopping around, I'm not ready to drop hundreds on a bong at the moment. Give me another year or two though, I'm warming up to it... maybe a while after the book is out and I've finished up with the donations. Again, the quality of the herb matters a heck of a lot more than the glass. You can talk about functionality and firing slits all you want, well guess what, the downstem goes into the water on a china bong too, so do the percs, and getting them even is a pretty simple concept and most blowers don't want you knowing that. If you shop intelligently, which I know is a struggle for some of you, you WILL find a china bong online, for less than any REAL name-brand, that functions JUST as well. The best part of this whole little shit-fest? Most of you kids buying 70 dollar 'names brands', ARE BUYING CHINA KNOCK OFFS AND DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER. But seriously, I digress... anyone who can afford so much high quality glass should send some of it along to us older folks, for safe-keeping... we know how to take care of it!
Please, lets just stop arguing about this. Collectable glass art vs. china glass is like apples vs. oranges. If you want high end function at a low price, china glass is a good option. If you want an "art" piece or something collectable, buy from an artist. Even artists themselves don't hate on china glass the way this thread has because they understand the fundamental difference between the two products and the purposes they each serve. Check out Luke Wilson's interview on youtube, he has nothing bad to say about it. I don't do it, but there's nothing wrong with purchasing china glass. If there was no room in the market for China glass, it wouldn't exist. Most Americans should be able to appreciate this because it is based on the very fundamentals of their capitalist economy. The glass industry has been changing and not all "china" glass available today is the same as the old paper thin "china" glass that earned the reputation now associated with it. Asian manufacturers are using quality brands of borosilicate tubing (Schott, Kimble, Kimax, etc.), and I am not so naive as to believe that the potential quality of ones work is governed by his/her country of origin or colour of skin. China is becoming increasingly capable of producing durable, quality glass just as well as the United States. The "if its not American it isn't good, regardless of whether it is good or not" viewpoint is becoming more short-sighted by the day. Owning a high end piece of glass is hardly grounds to dismiss cheaper purchases made by others. Its like a guy who owns a quality Rolex or Bulova timepiece saying anyone who owns a nice Nixon or Timex didn't take the time to learn about a good watch. Apples and oranges. Use of marijuana isn't a competition, if we enjoy what we are doing and the company we keep while doing it everybody is a winner regardless of what we smoke from.
You say: I really think it has something to do with valuing hard earned money or not valuing it, and with treating money like it's worth a bit less than it is... having an 'oh well' mentality of easy replacement. I say: I value my money... That's why it's invested in quality glass and not low quality glass I love your assumption that since I am not an adult above the age of 30 and I own quality glass, that I am in debt up to my eyeballs. You're wrong. And just so you know, I don't drop my glass You ask: If no one should have china glass, then how come folks own thousands of times more of it, than they do of the 'good stuff'... why are there hundreds of thousands of china pipes sold every month, and only hundreds of the name-brand pieces The answer: Ignorance and uneducated purchases The tube I am reffering to for $70 is made by Ray from Soul Shine Family Glass, SSFG. I would love for you to send him an eMail stating that you believe his pieces are china knockoffs. Because you know what? You're wrong. You still act like you have to spend your whole bank account to obtain quality glass. You're wrong. While you're smoking good weed out of your blackleaf, I'll be smoking BETTER weed out of my Apix
Just keep proving my point... it's funny! edit - This wonky, janky-ass, half-melting, crooked 'chubbler' from SSFG, is $70... and it doesn't look much worse than their other work in the same price range. Not that I have a problem with that, or their better work, the pieces in the several hundred range are certainly nice pieces of art. But it's a fantastic example of what I'm talking about. Kiddies, assuming things are always and without fail, better, just because of a name-brand. So keep blowing that smoke up your bum, and keep pretending the below is somehow better than a perfectly straight tube, with a diffused downstem, and even, fully-firing tree slits from China. And $85 for this... that's not a deal, it's a rip-off! Check out all the streaking in that painfully-thin beaker. It may as well be a $10 gas station pipe straight from china. Nope, you've just proved yours.
*Facepalm* I don't think you know what functional glass is... Functional glass has minimal drag and no splashback. Every china piece I have hit has tremendous drag and all the ashcatchers have TERRIBLE splashback It's not just about the type of glass used to make the tube... Its about the functionality of the tube and craftsmanship put in it. You may not be nieve to believe the the potential quality of ones work is governed by his/her country of orgin or color of skin. But you are ignorant enough to NOT know that most china glass isn't hand blown, it's machine made