why we need a livable wage rather than a minimum wage.

there isnt a single state where you can afford to live off of minimum wage working less than 70 hours a week. based on the prices ive seen around here this chart is factoring in food and utilities too.

Edited by BlazeLE, 15 March 2012 - 07:43 PM.

There are state minimum wages and there are federal minimum wages.. You wanna raise your state minimum wage, go ahead, its your business' that will suffer in the end.

As far as a federal minimum wage goes.. just no.

There are state minimum wages and there are federal minimum wages.. You wanna raise your state minimum wage, go ahead, its your business' that will suffer in the end.

As far as a federal minimum wage goes.. just no.

how would the businesses suffer? please elaborate... perhaps if the CEO's took a minor pay cut everyone could afford to live happily... but cant expect the super rich to make slightly less money now can we.

Real wages are down yet nominal wages are up.

Need moar wage increases!

Higher minimum wages make it harder for unskilled labor to find employment. If a minimum wage is $10 an hr, you end up overpaying for labor (think restaurants), the cost of labor increase gets passed onto the consumer, food prices go up, people respond by demanding higher wages.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

The big bad corporations are acting all corporationy sitting in their corporation chairs, making too much money, we need to raise wages because the corporationy corporations are hoarding the wealth. Never mind the small buisnesses (who are the real job creators) that will be hurt becuase of it.

People who make minimum wage usually take advantage of other benefits available to them, food stamps - government housing etc (which they should if the programs are available) which allow them to live their lifestyle somewhat comfortably.

At the end of the day, whether its raising minimum wage or increasing the various benefits someone takes advantage of in order to get the basic necessities it destroys wealth because it hampers local and small business either through increasing the costs of doing business, or through an increase in taxes to pay for more social programs. By destroying wealth you make it less available for EVERYONE ELSE.

Also, consider who actually gets paid minimum wage.. Ive worked a few jobs that require no skills what-so ever and I still got paid more than minimum wage, voluntarily.

I can understand getting paid minimum wage to make it through a difficult time, but what I don't understand is how someone can go through their whole life making minimum wage.. If you don't wanna put in effort to better yourself, I dont wanna subsidize your lack of effort.

Real wages are down yet nominal wages are up.

Need moar wage increases!

Higher minimum wages make it harder for unskilled labor to find employment. If a minimum wage is $10 an hr, you end up overpaying for labor (think restaurants), the cost of labor increase gets passed onto the consumer, food prices go up, people respond by demanding higher wages.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

if you think $10/h is over paying a laborer thats fucked up. we need regulations that will limit CEO pay. you cant say that they dont get paid way too much.







source: CEO Pay Charts | United for a Fair Economy

People who make minimum wage usually take advantage of other benefits available to them, food stamps - government housing etc (which they should if the programs are available) which allow them to live their lifestyle somewhat comfortably.

At the end of the day, whether its raising minimum wage or increasing the various benefits someone takes advantage of in order to get the basic necessities it destroys wealth because it hampers local and small business (either through increasing the costs of business, or through an increase in taxes). By destroying wealth you make it less available for EVERYONE ELSE.

Also, consider who actually gets paid minimum wage.. Ive worked a few jobs that require no skills what-so ever and I still got paid more than minimum wage, voluntarily.

I can understand getting paid minimum wage to make it through a difficult time, but what I don't understand is how someone can go through their whole life making minimum wage.. If you don't wanna put in effort to better yourself, I dont wanna subsidize your lack of effort.

not everyone can find a well paying job... especially with out sourcing. besides someone needs to do the shitty jobs. also if the minimum wage was raised to livable one they could cut from the welfare programs that are currently necessary.

If you raise it, people will just be fired instead -confused-

Sorry, but I believe in the freedom to work for whatever amount of money you want - and yes, as little as you want. That's a freedom this would trample on that's often overlooked. If an employer wants to pay me X amount per hour, and he cant pay me more, and I want to work for that X per hour, then I don't think the Government should be able to tell us we can't.

If you raise it, people will just be fired instead -confused-

Sorry, but I believe in the freedom to work for whatever amount of money you want - and yes, as little as you want. That's a freedom this would trample on that's often overlooked. If an employer wants to pay me X amount per hour, and he cant pay me more, and I want to work for that X per hour, then I don't think the Government should be able to tell us we can't.

who wants to work for less money???? that makes no sense at all... and its not that they "cant" pay you more, its that they dont want to...

if you think $10/h is over paying a laborer thats fucked up. we need regulations that will limit CEO pay. you cant say that they dont get paid way too much.







source: CEO Pay Charts | United for a Fair Economy

A limit placed on the amount of money you can make, creates a limit to the feasibility of opening a business. Starting/running a business is a risk, your betting the resources you stand to lose, for the possibility of making more in return.

If you create a limit on te amount of money a CEO, or stock holders, or anybody else can make, you skew the motivation that people have for creating business.


I'm not going to put money into a business, if I'm limited to making less that what I'd like if my risk becomes reward.

not everyone can find a well paying job... especially with out sourcing. besides someone needs to do the shitty jobs. also if the minimum wage was raised to livable one they could cut from the welfare programs that are currently necessary.

If we didn't destroy so much wealth appeasing people who don't know economics like you ( and 80% of the general population) than we would be able to pay the people who do crappy jobs more than minimum wage.

If you wanna be concerned for less fortunate people, you should support Ron Paul because the inflation we're seeing right now in the most critical areas (food and gas) are a direct result of pandering / overspending and bailouts. These policies hurt the poor, not the well off.

https://mises.org/da...-a-Minimum-Wage

https://mises.org/hu.../chap30sec3.asp

https://mises.org/econsense/ch36.asp

Mandating wage increases only pushes the price of goods higher, whilst making it more difficult for unskilled labor to find a job, because they are effectively made too expensive to hire for their lack of qualifications.

I know the deal, it's easy to feel bad for the little guy whilst some mythical banker makes 7 plus figures a year.

Yet, you're only hurting the little guy by mandating wage increases. There is that which is seen and that which is unseen, you are focusing solely on what is seen.

More dollars chasing the same amount of goods = Higher prices. Mandating higher wages pushes the median income up, but it's not based on producing any goods. You are simply mandating higher wages for the same amount of production as before, and this new money only pushes the cost of living even higher for those at the bottom, it's a very deceptive practice.

Who do higher prices hurt the most? Oh, those living on fixed incomes, the elderly and the poor. What do higher prices matter to the rich? It's not like $4 gas is a burden to them.

who wants to work for less money???? that makes no sense at all... and its not that they "cant" pay you more, its that they dont want to...

xD. You're very ignorant at how the world works. I'll work for the most I can get, but what if I can't find a job that pays a certain amount? Will I sit and pout? No, I'm going to try to find a job, and will work for minimum wage.

You think that somehow the Government can wave a magic wand and that the alternative is to find a job for more money, or the alternative is for my employer to just give me more. That's not what happens. What happens is I don't have a job anymore - it's not worth it to the business.

Businesses aren't magical things that just have tons of money all the time, and if they're forced to pay a lot of money for minimum wage - their reaction is to just hire a lot less people.

So you aren't protecting any freedoms, or making people make more money. You're just taking away jobs, and forcing people to either have to get a job that pays more, and if they can't - they get 0 money.

Of course they don't want to give me more money, why would they? If they had it their way I'd work for free. If I had it my way I'd get money for not working. Instead they offer an amount they feel people will work for them. If that amount is too little and I feel like I can get more - I can go elsewhere. I don't have to work for them and they don't have to hire me. Now if I can't find a job? Does that mean they HAVE to hire me and pay me whatever I want? Or whatever the Government wants? No, that's bullshit.

Employment should be a contract, like any other. An exchange of goods and services. You won't be able to force them to hire me, so you won't be able to force them to give me more money. When Government gets involved in something as complex as an economy, shit goes bad real fast.

how would the businesses suffer? please elaborate... perhaps if the CEO's took a minor pay cut everyone could afford to live happily... but cant expect the super rich to make slightly less money now can we.

Rothbard and Mises answered your criticisms before you were born (see above). Have fun reading!

https://mises.org/da...-a-Minimum-Wage

https://mises.org/hu.../chap30sec3.asp

https://mises.org/econsense/ch36.asp

the first one is insinuating that only some people would lower their wages rather than everyone... as soon as they can they'll drop wages at the same rate as everyone else... if you think otherwise you're a fool.

the second one is insisting that everyone should work for less...

how would the businesses suffer? please elaborate... perhaps if the CEO's took a minor pay cut everyone could afford to live happily... but cant expect the super rich to make slightly less money now can we.

why are you under the impression that employers are super rich CEOs?

most of them aren't..

most employers are small business owners who don't make a lot of money.

do you guys just ignore all of the countries that dont have minimum wage laws and people work for $1.50 a day living in slums?

Rothbard and Mises answered your criticisms before you were born (see above). Have fun reading!

i could easily link to marxist writings that prove you're links wrong...