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Pot Potentiation: Milk Thistle, Omega 3 And Grapefruit

Discussion in 'Marijuana Consumption Q&A' started by jeffyjeffyjeffy, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. #1 jeffyjeffyjeffy, Aug 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
    I'm not a biologist of a Pharmacist but I know a fair amount about how the body works and how to alter the effects of marijuana.
     
    I'm going to be posting a summary of useful information on how you can improve the quality of your high as well as the duration.
     
    The Duration of Your High:
    The duration of your high has MANY variables that effect it, but can be increased greatly with a few, healthy tricks.  The main factor affecting the duration of your high is the metabolism of THC and other cannabinoids by the liver. If you can prevent the liver from breaking down THC, you can double or even triple how long your high lasts.
    Preventing the liver from metabolizing THC is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing (which is why I'm going to tell you the safe way!)
     
    Before I go on, I'm going to warn you that anything involving enzyme inhibition is VERY dangerous if you are on ANY medications. Please use common sense.
     
    THC and CBD are metabolized by enzymes called CYP3a4, CYP2c9 and CYP2c19. (Link 1)
    INHIBITORS:
     
    Omega 3 fatty acids: Omega 3s DO affect your high but not in the way you have heard in the past.  Omega 3s have little to no effect on the CB1 and CB2 receptors (which is the outdated theory of why they affect your high). The reason Omega 3s effect your high is because the poly unsaturated fat called EPA inhibits CYP2c9 and CYP2c19 as well as CYP3a4, at higher doses. This means slower breakdown of THC in your liver and a longer high. (Link 2)
     
    Another easily obtainable enzyme inhibitor is Milk Thistle. It comes in supplement form and can be found and any large retailer.  Milk Thistle inhibits liver enzyme CYP2c9, which metabolizes THC. Taking milk thistle half an hour before smoking SHOULD increase the duration of your high, depending on how much you take and how your body responds to it. (Links 3 and 11)
     
    Here's where it gets really crazy (and complicated)
    Ever wondered why you need so much more weed when using edibles? It's because the enzymes that break down THC and CBD are present in the stomach and intestines, not just the liver.  This means that THC and CBD are being broken down even before they are absorbed into your bloodstream and you feel their effects!  This can be prevented by drinking grapefruit juice or simply eating grapefruit right before you eat an edible.  Grapefruit juice has a chemical in it that can completely block CYP3a4 from breaking down THC and CBD in the stomach and intestines, thus increasing bio-availability.  The tricky part is that this only works with edibles, not with smoking.  Grapefruit juice does not prevent THC and CBD breakdown in the liver, like EPA and Milk Thistle. (Links 4 and 5)
     
    There are many other drugs/ supplements that inhibit these enzymes, but they are either hard to obtain or are dangerous to use, so for that reason I will not be mentioning them.
     
    Why you should not eat while high:
    They say eating kills your high, and there is some science behind that claim.  When you eat food, your body redirects blood to the stomach and intestines. This means less blood flow to your body and brain, where THC is its most valuable. (Link 6)
     
    What have we learned?
    -The duration and intensity of a high can be increased through the use of high doses of Omega 3 fatty acid EPA (500 mgs or more) as well and milk thistle and grapefruit (juice).
    -The most effective way to use these is by taking Milk thistle and Omega 3 pills 45 minutes before smoking OR take all three at the same time you ingest your edible.
    -Don't eat while high, science tells your it will kill your buzz
     
    The quality of your high (how high you feel):
    The main factor affecting how high you feel, besides tolerance and THC content, is myrcene content. Im going to skip the details and say that myrcene effects how the brain interacts with THC and that more myrcene in your bloodstream equals a more intense high.
    HOW TO SUPPLEMENT MYRCENE:
    Myrcene content in usually lower in lower quality marijuana but it can be supplemented in a variety of ways.
    1. Eating mangos. Mangos contain myrcene and eating them before smoking can double how high you feel as well as double the duration of your high.
    2. Lemongrass, Hops and other essential oils. Essential oils are plant extracts that contain terpenes and other olfactory-stimulating chemicals. They can contain extremely concentrated myrcene and can be much more effective than mangos for the cost, if used properly.  I'm not going to say how to use them properly because I don't know how.
    (Link 7)
     
    Link 8: This is a link to all a page that lists around 20 supplements/ chemicals that inhibit CYP2c9, the enzyme that breaks down THC
     
    Link 9: This article has a helpful explanation of why edibles require more weed per dose
     
    Link 10: Paragraph 4 of the "conclusion" section talks about bio-availability of THC and it's metabolism in the stomach and intestines. 
     
    Link 12: Another article talking about first-pass metabolism of THC when taken orally
     
    LINKS:
    1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24160757
    2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eicosapentaenoic_acid
    3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11038151
    4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit_juice
    5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piperine
    6. http://www.saywhydoi.com/why-do-i-feel-tiredness-after-eating/
    7. http://www.theweedblog.com/mangos-increase-the-effects-of-consuming-marijuana/
    8. http://herbpedia.wikidot.com/cyp2c9
    9. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/13/smoke-vs-snack-why-edible-marijuana-is-stronger-than-smoking.html
    10. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3196989/
    11. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2835426/
    12. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/
     
    Because this is the Q&A section, its only appropriate that I ask a question.  For those who have tried these tricks, accidentally or on purpose, were there effective in your experience?

     
  2. #2 OneOfTheGoodOnes, Aug 10, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
    First, this is not a Q&A that's here,
    http://forum.grasscity.com/tokers-qa/
     
    Second, provide links to back up your statements.
     
  3. #3 jeffyjeffyjeffy, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
    For clarification:
    When smoking enzyme inhibition will not be nearly as effect as when using edibles. This is because THC reaches the brain before it reaches the liver.  This means less THC will be saved by blocking these enzymes.  Edibles are much more complicated but can be altered much more because oral bio-availability is so low (4%-20%). 
    With smoking, you inhale a certain amount of THC with each hit and after you exhale there is nothing that you can do to get back the THC that is lost.  With edibles though, most THC is lost in the stomach and intestines.  This means that you take it all of the THC from your herb, but you only absorb a small percentage of what you ingest.  The methods I mentioned in my first post help increase the amount of THC that is absorbed into the blood (bio-availability), making edibles more efficient and more effective.
     
    Personally, I only have experience with mangos and lemongrass oil.  I only recently learned about these enzyme inhibitors and have not had enough free time/ weed to test them out in a controlled setting.  If you're looking for "proof" that these work, the best way would be to try them out for yourselves!
     
  4. Grapefruit  and it's juices can cause many issues for anyone that takes certain types of medications.
     
    Some are listed here and there are definately others that are not listed :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_interactions
    So you have to be careful with grapefruit.
     
    A mango, Tbreaks, better/ different bud or consumption methods can also work wonders.
     
  5. In lines 9 and 10 I made sure to address the issue with safety :).
     
  6. Good stuff here, useful
     
  7. yeah sweet post, always wondered about the use of mango and other supplements to enhance/lengthen
     
  8. I just had a three day break, ate a whole mango 30 minutes before smoking, and chiefed a whole blunt in my truck....I feel waaaay higher than I usually do, I bought a few mangos today so ill let you know the results
     
  9. Ive noticed that mangos only really affect your high when you have a low tolerance

    Sent from my SGH-T399 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  10.  
     
    I consume lemograss oil sometimes before I use my vape, I feel like I get much more of a head rush than I normally do and the high usually lasts like a half hour longer.
     
  11. thought i posted in this thread but i guess i didnt....any idea if there is potentiation with green/black tea? ive done some experimenting but curious to see op's experience.
     
  12. Same here!  With both mangos and lemongrass I get a much stronger head rush that usually hits before I can even finish my bowl.  Mine usually lasts about an hour longer (Only tried it with shitty weed, which is what I'm stuck with right now)
     
  13. May I ask where you buy lemongrass oil that you can consume and how much of it do you take of it? I went to gnc and they only had the lemongrass essential oil that goes into a diffuser. Thank you!
     
  14. I wouldn't want what I smoked last night potentiated any more than it already was.
     
  15. Is lemongrass the essential oil that you put in diffusers? And you can consume that?
     

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