Who can honestly say that God doesnt exist?

[DaZEED&ConFuseD]

I've read a lot of post hear in this section and there seems to be a lot of athiests. Im open to any beliofs but i'm curious as to how u can say there is no sort of God. What is ya'lls arguements on it?

[Reefer_Cat]

Not to avoid answering your question. But it works both ways. What proof has there ever been that there is some higher force that shapes the world around us? It seems like a load of hooey.

[daiseyduked]

I was raised RC. but i believe in alot of religions. i know for there is a god~ higher being whatever u want to call it. reefer cat does have a point but how can u say that there isn't? of all the miracles that happen? but that is just my perogitive.

[phunkyphil]

you cant really PROVE anything.. but just think about it- do you really believe that there is some all knowing, all powerful entity controlling the entire universe? seems kinda unlikely and farfetched to me. miracles dont mean a thing.. for every lucky fluke, there is an unlucky fluke. what makes you think that something like that happens because of some higher power anyway?

and i think we can all agree that the christian god does not exist.. thats just fucking absurd

[Bud Head]

Just a question.
Why would a greater being let little children be raped and killed?
What about all the people who die from raw killers?
Why do we have to leave our children so enough money can be made to care for them.
Why do we have a government offical (Bush) saying who should live or die???

Any one know?

[xero_gravity]

In my opinion god (if there is a god) does not control every aspect of everyones lives. Thats why we have minds that work the way they do. For example if a drunk decides to drive and he gets into an accident which kills innocent people did god make him do that? no he decided himself to get into that car.
If anything life is a test that god gives us. and when we die he will grade us on the actions that we have taken. I don't strongly believe in thisas this is just a hypothesis. I as well as many others have many thoughts on life. this is just one of mine

[cradleofganja]

^^^^^ what phunky said

[fume]

"you cant really PROVE anything.. but just think about it- do you really believe that there is some all knowing, all powerful entity controlling the entire universe?"

the question isnt what controlls everything, the question is what created it all. can you take a look around at all the beautiful and complex things in this world, and then look up at the stars and see how much is really out there, and then believe it was all an accident? think about how gravity works, think about the human brain, look at all the different forms of life on this planet. something had to have created it all for a purpose, and that something had to exist somewhere before this was all created. but thats just my opinion and what i would like to believe.

[phunkyphil]

go to google and do a search on the origins of the universe- science has already explained all that... its all about quantum physics.. basically all of reality just started as nothing- but nothing is unstable, and so the pre big-bang universe and space-time were just created spontaineously.. then the big bang happened. imo that sounds more believable than 'zylar the great created us and lives in the heavens'

[fume]

so your saying that there was absolutely nothing and that nothing was unstable, even though its nothing, so it cant be unstable because its not something, and then it exploded and thats why we are all here? well thats all a theory man, its just a belief.

i see more evidence of a god or something on this planet than i see of the big bang theory. i dont expect someone who believes in science to agree or even look at my side, because science is just a way to make everything black and white. my experience on this planet has shown me that there is alot more to life than what we see, there is a bigger idea that we are a part of. there IS a reason why we are here, its not just an accident.

the truth is, there are only a few things that can really be considered facts. we are here, theres a whole lot more stuff out there, and there is no way for any of us to really know what is going on until we die. anything else is a guess. but i find it very hard to believe that everything on this earth and everything in this universe is an accident and came from nothing.

maybe you could post the reasons why you believe what you believe and the reasons why you dont believe there is a god, and also try to explain to me how all this could come from nothing. nothing is something that doesnt exist, nothing is the absence of everything, so how could it just magically blow up and create all of this? you can believe that but you cant believe a god created this all? is it so hard to believe that maybe instead of there being nothing, there was a god?

[phunkyphil]

nothing can so be unstable.. trust me its all explained.. there was nothing, which spontaniously 'boiled', creating the forth dimention, time, and countless millions of big bangs, which all formed universes.. this is the one that just happened to work right, an unimaginably massive fluke, a freak accident.. the others are probably all just dead, random configurations of electrons floating in empty space.. makes you feel kinda lucky eh?

why would we be here for a reason? just think about it.. you think something fucking PUT us here? yeah right.. what is a 'god'? have you ever seen one, or seen any concrete evidence that one, in any form whatsoever, exists? and what created IT? even if there is one, it's literally impossible to comprehend something infinite in a finite existance, and therefore totally useless. i believe the simplest theory with the most concrete evidence behind it.. but really when it comes down to it, i dont care at all.. people spend too much time contemplating things which they will never understand. as far as im concerned, my purpose in life is to eat and then shit it all out, over and over again until i expire, ending my existence, period. and hell, maybe if im lucky i can even continue the species on the way.. shit, gods are for gods to worry about.. not us tiny, random collections of genetic material.. say one day you did find out that there was a god, and he created us. what the fuck would happen? absolutely nothing.. life would go on as usual, and you would eventually die, maybe a tiny bit less curious. so dont worry about it man.. just have some fun

[fume]

im not worrying about anything, im answering and discussing a question on a discussion board. and i do have fun.

in my opinion you are still looking at this whole god thing the wrong way. and just because you cant see something doesnt mean it isnt there, you didnt see the universe form. and why would we not be here for a reason? whats so off the wall about being put here by something? you admited that we are just "random collections of genetic material", you believe that these "random collections of genetic material" slowly evolved, by itself, for no reason at all, into all the living things we see today. is it really that crazy to think that something created it? why would things evolve if they all started out the exact same way? little single celled organisms dont have any needs they need to evolve for. that seems far more off the wall than believeing something actually put us here for a reason. your belief is much more complicated than any other.

i still dont understand how nothing can be unstable or boil considering its nothing. meaning there wouldnt be anything there. and i still dont understand how nothing could produce all this just because it was boiled. and what would cause it to boil? i dont see any concrete evidence behind your belief, just a bunch of theorys, just like mine.

this universe couldnt be created with ONE giant fluke, it would have to be thousands of thousands of them.

im not saying your belief is wrong, im just saying that because of my expiernces in life i believe there is something more to it than what we see or know. so stop talking to me like im trying to push some religion on people, im not a religious person. but i am pretty stoned, just to let you know

[Switch]

ok.... put a glass on a table... the glass needs to hit the floor for something to happen to the glass right. How is the glass going to hit the floor? The only way is going to be if it is moved. It's not just going to hit the floor on it's own. Or not unless a small glass-sized hole just APPEARS in the table.

Look at the human mind. You know that your mind works in a different way to all animals. You have the ability to make choices etc... to THINK. Why do you think you have that ability. IF you are simply a part of a fluke- why do you think at all. Why don't you just live autonimously. If nature IS just a bunch of flukes- why should we be any different?

Oh and as to the death and suffering (used a lot). I have to use the thaught thing again. We have the ability to think for ourselves. Why doesn't god stop it. Simple- there would be no point in our existance if we had everything done for us. If we made no attempts ourselves, if we didn't stop these things for ourselves. There would be no weight to our actions. no progress in our thought.

[elektrabliss]

I really like the stuff fume has been saying. He/she hasn't sided with a particular belief but has offered some interesting discussion. I mean we are but simple humans.. still in early stages of our intellect.. who are we to presume we know how it all happened and what's really going on? It's a good idea to listen to all the theories and explore them. I think religion is pretty shit though, I've always believed they were created because we wanted a way to explain the unknown. My religion is just having an open mind. Maybe we are here for a reason? Maybe we have been cultivated and grown here on this earth for some greated cosmic purpose. What I do know is that it is all still beyond any human comprehention. It's great to talk about it and theorise though :-) Keeps your mind healthy hehe

[phunkyphil]

Originally posted by fume
im not worrying about anything, im answering and discussing a question on a discussion board. and i do have fun.

in my opinion you are still looking at this whole god thing the wrong way. and just because you cant see something doesnt mean it isnt there, you didnt see the universe form. and why would we not be here for a reason? whats so off the wall about being put here by something? you admited that we are just "random collections of genetic material", you believe that these "random collections of genetic material" slowly evolved, by itself, for no reason at all, into all the living things we see today. is it really that crazy to think that something created it? why would things evolve if they all started out the exact same way? little single celled organisms dont have any needs they need to evolve for. that seems far more off the wall than believeing something actually put us here for a reason. your belief is much more complicated than any other.

i still dont understand how nothing can be unstable or boil considering its nothing. meaning there wouldnt be anything there. and i still dont understand how nothing could produce all this just because it was boiled. and what would cause it to boil? i dont see any concrete evidence behind your belief, just a bunch of theorys, just like mine.

this universe couldnt be created with ONE giant fluke, it would have to be thousands of thousands of them.

im not saying your belief is wrong, im just saying that because of my expiernces in life i believe there is something more to it than what we see or know. so stop talking to me like im trying to push some religion on people, im not a religious person. but i am pretty stoned, just to let you know

i agree that things can be around us without our knowlege, but i wont believe that something is here just because someone says its here.. at least what science offers has some evidence and verification behind it, you know? more than a religious type somewhere saying that they KNOW and FEEL god all around them.. science is more than just a religion because it is based on things that have been proven. so even if something is just a theory, it still has some facts behind it.. something to support it.. but anyway..
things evolve because thats what living things do. they come into existence, and they try to preserve that existence in any way possible until they die out.. if a freak mutation lets one living thing survive better than another, then the living thing will probably get a chance to reproduce and pass on the mutation. this is microevolution.. and if this happens over and over for millions of years, then yes, other animals can develop from the existing ones. you see, evolution doesnt happen conciously, its a series of flukes, just like everything else..

and dude, im not gonna try and explain what is probably the most complex science ever.. shit, i barely even understand it myself. but if you do the research, you will find the answers.. did you know that in the microverse, all laws of physics are thrown out the fucking window? energy just appears and dissapears, randomly, constantly, for no reason whatsoever.. this is happening all around us as we speak.. and in a nothing, you are dealing with the microverse as there in no proportion, no point of reference. this nothing boiled, because damn, what else would it do? sit there? in order to grasp the nitty-gritty mechanics of things, you need to stop thinking in terms of purpose, cause and effect, because sometimes it just plain doesnt apply. some things truly ARE flukes..

but anyway, i dont want you to think im being confrontational.. this is just some friendly, stoned discussion, nothing more.. just because you believe in a god, im not going to hold it against you. and i dont think youre trying to push anything on me.. were just 2 guys with different viewpoints trying to argue them on the net, nothing more.