What is right and wrong

[thejerk]

Is there such a thing as "right" and "wrong"? If so, can you define them, or give examples of something that everyone would agree is right or wrong? Try to leave politics and religion out when you think about this, because not everyone supports the same political or religious views. Reality includes everyone, not just one set of beliefs.

I think for right and wrong to really mean anything, everyone has to agree on their definitions. For example, is smoking herb wrong? Most of us here would say that there is nothing wrong with it, yet its illegal in most places because others think its wrong. Who is to say? Should we take a vote? Why? Does that mean its right to leave minorities out and ignore their beliefs?

Even murdering a person isn't considered wrong for some. Extreme Muslims in Jihad think (believe) killing infidels will get you in to "heaven". Of course most would say murder is clearly wrong. Up for another vote? Ready to trash more peoples' beliefs?

As long as people disagree on the meaning of right and wrong, nothing makes any sense... to me at least. 9/11, the war in<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1 =""> Iraq</st1></st1:country-region>, kids shooting up schools, Christians helping tsunami victims, etc. what the fuck is going on?

The only thing I can think that is right is to spread love. It is right to love your brothers and sisters- other humans; black, white, gay, Hindu, Morman, whatever. Spread the positive vibes.



Am I making sense or just trippin myself out?
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[sidious]

well, if it's a comparrison of what's wrong and what's right, i'd say we would all agree that Peodophelia is wrong on all counts..........?...........Peace out...........Sid

[thejerk]

Originally Posted by sidious

well, if it's a comparrison of what's wrong and what's right, i'd say we would all agree that Peodophelia is wrong on all counts..........?...........Peace out...........Sid

That is a good one. Would all Catholic priests agree with you? lol

[sidious]

Originally Posted by thejerk

That is a good one. Would all Catholic priests agree with you? lol

probably not, but i bet they still know it's wrong...........Peace out.........Sid

[IGotTheCottons]

I believe we're born with a certain amount of conscience that tells us what's right and wrong.

Leaving all religion out, I'd say that murder is still wrong. You used the example of fundamental islamists blowing up infedels. They see them killing <i>infedels</i> as being a positive thing, but ask them if they think "murder" is wrong and I'm sure they'll tell you it is. When they blow themselves up, they don't view what they're doing as murder, but rather, the will of God.

If you completely leave religion out of it though, I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of things that are wrong: murder, rape, pedephilia (sp?), thievery, etc.

There are those that don't agree that all those are necessarily wrong, which is why we have murderers and rapists and thieves, etc. I believe those individuals to be sick in the head.

[RealityFilter]

Right and wrong are states of mind we're born into, and grow to see things in that black and white perspective. That's all it is, any way you look at it. All that divides the two extremes is conscience, and I believe that life experiences alter what you believe in terms of right and wrong. So looking at those pedophiles, rapists and murderers etc - events in their lives inspired the ways they think more than likely, so the 'wrong' that we perceive might not be part of their internal dialogues conscious choice of 'right'. Basically it isn't a matter of right and wrong, the 'wrong choices' made by those people aren't seen as such in their own perspective, ultimately brought on by events in their lives.

Most often, those murderers and such that did what they did were victims of trauma - so what happens to us in our lives effects our outlook. There's a fine line between right and wrong, morally we should do what we can to better life for ourselves and others.

[Ars moriendi]

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

I believe we're born with a certain amount of conscience that tells us what's right and wrong.

Leaving all religion out, I'd say that murder is still wrong. You used the example of fundamental islamists blowing up infedels. They see them killing <i>infedels</i> as being a positive thing, but ask them if they think "murder" is wrong and I'm sure they'll tell you it is. When they blow themselves up, they don't view what they're doing as murder, but rather, the will of God.

If you completely leave religion out of it though, I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of things that are wrong: murder, rape, pedephilia (sp?), thievery, etc.

There are those that don't agree that all those are necessarily wrong, which is why we have murderers and rapists and thieves, etc. I believe those individuals to be sick in the head.

Placing pedophilla side by side with rapist an murderers....thats pretty fucking close minded.

Perhaps you should actually know what the you're talking about before lumping people in with two of the most vile worthless things on this planet...

Do you blast all gays for a few doing bad things? Nope..it's not politically correct so why is it ok to badmouth someone for mearly having a sexual orientation different from others just because it's socially acceptable to do so?

Sounds like the line between religious right an wrong an just right an wrong really have no line at all..people just hate and love without rhyme or reason.

[Mr Skinner]

Well, placing pedophiles side by side with gays is kinda over the line, too. When gays live their sexual preferences noone gets hurt. Usually...

[Ars moriendi]

Originally Posted by Mr Skinner

Well, placing pedophiles side by side with gays is kinda over the line, too. When gays live their sexual preferences noone gets hurt. Usually...

If you're actually open to it ... (I'd be shocked as hell..but it'd show stoners truely are the coolest fucking people ever) neither does pedophilla.

The first creed of anyone who truely is what the latin root describes it as is to be a friend first. To always have the persons back (male or female)...think something along the line of hobbits and being loyal as hell. So anyone who really is one (and not a child molester) would literally put their life on the line to save a child. It's understood the world doesn't like it and even if someone is consenually agreeing there are still outword factors that make it impossible for both parties to really come out unharmed by the world at large.

So if you must lump murdering scum with rapists and combine the two worthless beings to create a child molesting scumbag worthy of an ass beating. That one thing they had on AMW on that girl from FL had me in tears....

[Mr Skinner]

I was talking about living sexual preferences. What you describe is almost parental love. From someone else than the parents.

Originally Posted by Ars moriendi

It's understood the world doesn't like it and even if someone is consenually agreeing there are still outword factors that make it impossible for both parties to really come out unharmed by the world at large.

Yup...something in the line of the younger part growing up and realizing it had been way too young to make such a desicion.

[Ars moriendi]

it?

It's really a social matter..

I you've traveled much you'll notice different social groups take things different. For example in the US most teenagers don't leave the 'nest' at 18 anymore. I remember seeing some piece on the news about gen y being down the tubes because parents weren't giving their kids the tools to live in such an irrational world. IE letting them fuck up letting them think things over. Some college age folks coudln't even fill out a job application!

Now take Brazil or any other harsher part of the world..you grow up much faster. Again it all comes down to how one is raised so making a blanket statement like 'it realizes it was took young' isn't being fair to the whole population.

The people who don't conform end up being scapegoats...and the order of the day is unless you're xyz you're malformed in our eyes.

And I'm sure it's been done to death...but I can go off to war an die at 18 but I can't drink a fucking beer? I can make a possible life or death choice at 18...but I can't let a drop of liquor touch my lips?

[fAKdded]

Im just curious why you are stressing your point for Peodophelia so much ... I mean, some of thoose people are after kids as young as 5-12. Anything under 16 Is iffy...

[Ars moriendi]

Originally Posted by fAKdded

Im just curious why you are stressing your point for Peodophelia so much ... I mean, some of thoose people are after kids as young as 5-12. Anything under 16 Is iffy...

Those people? I recall someone saying that years before...he really liked gas chambers...and trains

I already defined the difference between someone who loves an cares for kids and someone who has control issues yet is too much of a pussy to rape someone his or her own age....

So I already agree with you...someone who rapes anyone needs some serious hurt put on them but you can't go saying every single person who finds someone under 18 attractive is a child molester deserving of death. Thats just as bad as those islamist fucks stoning people to death an hanging gays just because their gay.

[Mr Skinner]

Originally Posted by Ars moriendi

it?

you pretend to know latin, thus grammar. You must know that 'part' is an 'it'.

Originally Posted by Ars moriendi

Those people? I recall someone saying that years before...he really liked gas chambers...and trains

oh come on. Don't get hung up in simple words. You know what he meant.

Originally Posted by Ars moriendi

I already defined the difference between someone who loves an cares for kids and someone who has control issues yet is too much of a pussy to rape someone his or her own age..

And I think when any of us talk about pedophiles, we talk about people in love with children who act on it.

And I think we're talking about the western civilisation where growing up and learning to live in a technologized society takes a long time. Yes, we're able to mate and produce children at an age of 13-16. That's as nature intended it. But we changed the whole pattern by introducing civilisation and modern society. That's where pedophiles really can fuck up kids.

[IGotTheCottons]

Ars, I think you misunderstood what I meant by pedophilia... If some teenager (who's sexually mature) wants to go have sex with someone who's way older... Hey... No biggie. They've reached the age where they're capable of thinking for themselves (one is usually capable of truely abstract thought when they reach 12... my source was some psych book I read mad long ago)...

I'm talking about the sickos who get off to freakin children. That's wrong - regardless. If the person isn't even capable of reproduction yet, they're too young for sex. People who think otherwise have something wrong with them. You may think otherwise, that's your opinion though. But <big>I</big> believe that if you can fantasize (sexually) about little kids who are incapable of reproduction due to being too young, you have a sick, perverted mind... And yes, in MY opinion, that makes you just as low as a rapist or murderer.