Atlantis

[Opivy]

The story of Atlantis. We have all heard it I'm sure, but how many of you believe that this ancient civilization actually existed? When Plato speaks of Atlantis in Critias he states that the continent lies in the atlantic sea, or 'sea of the atlanteans'. After countless sweeps and expeditions in the atlantic sea nothing has ever been found to verify these stories to be true. After reading articles from www.atlan.org i have to admit i am intrigued. The bit about location is important. Would if the Atlantic Ocean that is today, was not that Atlantic ocean during Platonic times? I am very interested in this ancient civilization and different theories around. I will be more then happy to hear some other theories around or to discuss the one from the link above.

[Opivy]

http://www.atlan.org/articles/checklist/

This bit is good. Basically this is a list of all the areas atlantis has thought to have existed in. It compares them all to what Plato describes in Critias and Timaeus.

[wiseacre]

It is completely possible for such civilizations to exist because the lithosphere (crust of the earth) recycles itself. The lithosphere is made up of techtonic plates that slide under each other (creating ravines, earthquake faults, mountain ranges) and the land comes back up in molten lava through volcanoes. So if there was an Atlantis, we wouldn't find traces of it because it's long gone. They've also found beaten paths in the deep ocean that belonged possibly to ancient communities... pretty awesome to think about.

[D9_THC]

i don't know about 'atlantis' but i certainly don't believe that the Sumerians and Egyptians all of a sudden sprang up out of nowhere.

one day they're primitive stone age hut dwellers. then all of a sudden they can write, build, express culture etc etc... i just don't buy that

for example, the Sphynx has been accuratley dated to be from around 10,000BC, long before any civilisation as we know it existed.
but they know it is this old, because of water erosion on the momument, which is consistent with a wet and humid climate.
the last time Egypt had this climate: around 10,000BC

man-made structures have been found off the coast of Japan, underwater. the last time this place was above sea level, was around 10,000 years ago.

so, as i said. I don't know whether there was an Atlantis, as Plato described. but I am 100% certain that we have been 'civilised' for a lot longer than orthodox historians would have us believe.

some good authors to check out, would be Graham Hancock, and John Anthony West.
i recommend Graham Hancock's book 'Fingerprints of the Gods'.

[Natural Mystic]

Originally Posted by D9_THC

for example, the Sphynx has been accuratley dated to be from around 10,000BC, long before any civilisation as we know it existed.
but they know it is this old, because of water erosion on the momument, which is consistent with a wet and humid climate.
the last time Egypt had this climate: around 10,000BC

Thats intresting! I heard a couple years back that same thing about how the sphynx was there long before the Egyptians and how it originally had the face of a lion but then the Egyptians changed it into the face of man.

Good stuff

As for atlantis.. hey why not?

[Opivy]

The theory from the link given above (yes mine) places Atlantis in Indonesia.


Specifically here


(taken from www.atlan.org)


Heres a paragraph from www.atlan.org speaking the "located in the atlantic ocean" part about the Atlantis story. (for all of the people who never got around to clicking the link and reading)

Originally Posted by www.atlan.org

Plato was very specific on the fact that Atlantis was located in the Atlantic Ocean. Indeed, this ocean took this name because it was deemed the "Ocean of the Atlanteans". Hence, Mediterranean locations such as Troy, Crete (Thera), Carthage, the Bosphorus, etc., automatically disqualify as the site of Atlantis.

However, one should carefully recall that what the ancients called by the name of Atlantic Ocean, or others such as Outer Ocean, Kronius Oceanus, Mare Magnum, Mare Oceanum, etc., was not the same one we now address by that name. As we discuss in detail elsewhere [LINK], the Atlantic Ocean (or simply "Ocean") of the ancients of the times of Plato, Herodotus, Aristotle and others was the whole of the earth encircling ocean. This difference in nomenclature is essential, for it ties with the root of the problem of Atlantis, and explains why all researchers so far have failed to find the true site of Atlantis.

The ancients figured the world — that is, the lands they knew of (Eurasia and Africa), the so-called Ancient World — as a roughly circular plate surrounded all around by the Ocean ("Atlantic"). Outside this Circular Ocean, "containing" it, so to speak, was the true "Continent", the Americas, which encircled it all around.

It was in this Outer Continent that the ancients placed Eden and other such legendary Paradises which they remotely connected with Atlantis. As a matter of fact, the very word "Ocean" derives from the Sanskrit açayana meaning "encircling all around". Hence, in the same way that the Mediterranean regions are automatically discredited as possible sites for Atlantis — for they neither lie in the Atlantic Ocean nor outside the Pillars of Hercules — regions located in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean must be included, for they indeed satisfy these two prerequisites.

Avienus — basing himself on very ancient Phoenician sources — placed the Hesperides and the island of Geryon, Erytheia, "in the Ocean of the Atlanteans". Now, from Avienus' and other detailed descriptions, Erytheia lay in the Orient, in the Erythraean (or Indian Ocean), to which it gave its name. So, we see that the name of "Atlantic Ocean" or "Ocean of the Atlanteans" originally applied to the Indian Ocean. This name was later transferred, first to both oceans and then to the present Atlantic Ocean. We conclude, hence, that Atlantis must be sought first of all in the Indian Ocean, and only secondarily in what we presently call "Atlantic Ocean".

discuss..

[Digit]

the big deal with atlantis is not so much "did it exist?" or "where is it?" but rather, what are the lessons to be learned from the "myth" and legend.


they fucked themselves over by their oppulence, their decadence and blinded themselves to their place in the world. they thought they were masters of their world, and they payed for their arrogance and ignorance.

[AndyPL]

Originally Posted by wiseacre

It is completely possible for such civilizations to exist because the lithosphere (crust of the earth) recycles itself. The lithosphere is made up of techtonic plates that slide under each other (creating ravines, earthquake faults, mountain ranges) and the land comes back up in molten lava through volcanoes. So if there was an Atlantis, we wouldn't find traces of it because it's long gone. They've also found beaten paths in the deep ocean that belonged possibly to ancient communities... pretty awesome to think about.

Plate tectonics are measured in millions of years. Since the dawn of civilization the fastest moving plates have moved a few meters at most.

for example, the Sphynx has been accuratley dated to be from around 10,000BC, long before any civilisation as we know it existed.
but they know it is this old, because of water erosion on the momument, which is consistent with a wet and humid climate.
the last time Egypt had this climate: around 10,000BC

Measuring water erosion isn't accurate at all, especially in the desert where structures are eroded by wind and acid rain as well. Most egyptologists agree that the sphinx was built in 3000 BC, as far as I know.

I've read a few Atlantis theories myself and I think they're pretty sketchy at best.

[Adicted2aa]

Originally Posted by D9_THC

i don't know about 'atlantis' but i certainly don't believe that the Sumerians and Egyptians all of a sudden sprang up out of nowhere.

one day they're primitive stone age hut dwellers. then all of a sudden they can write, build, express culture etc etc... i just don't buy that

You're skipping a few civilizations. And no thats not how it happened. Will Durant has a sieres called the story of civilizations, the first book in that sieres, Our Oriental Heritage, describes the begginings of civilization quite well. If you have alot of time its a good read. If not, you can get it on tape and listen to it while driving and such.

[Opivy]

I've read Will Durant's book "The history of Philosophy".

The guy is awesome, I've been meaning to find that series.

What does he say in "Our oriental heritage"?

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by Digit

the big deal with atlantis is not so much "did it exist?" or "where is it?" but rather, what are the lessons to be learned from the "myth" and legend.


they fucked themselves over by their oppulence, their decadence and blinded themselves to their place in the world. they thought they were masters of their world, and they payed for their arrogance and ignorance.

Get out of my head! GET OUT GET OUT!!

rep +

[Adicted2aa]

Originally Posted by Opivy

I've read Will Durant's book "The history of Philosophy".

The guy is awesome, I've been meaning to find that series.

What does he say in "Our oriental heritage"?

A lot of things. It basically describes the step from tribe to civilization in Asia. It shows you how close early civilization was to the nomad tribe. If you're at all interested in Anthropology its a must read.

[plumface_2002]

i bet you anything atlantis is true.