An article I thought was interesting... Evolution related...

IGotTheCottons · #1 (**permalink**) 05-05-2005, 07:29 PM

The article can be found below... I copied and pasted for those who don't wanna go to the site...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7736155/

The evolution of a fight to the end
In Kansas, God and science are going toe to toe againBy Alex Johnson

Defenders of Charles Darwin’s theory of natural selection are boycotting four days of hearings — beginning Thursday — over the science curriculum in Kansas, where the state Board of Education is made up of a majority of conservatives critical of what they see as errors in the standard theory.

Mainstream science organizations spurned invitations to participate, dismissing the hearings as an effort “to attack and undermine science,” in the view of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which publishes the journal Science.

The hearings, which run through Saturday and resume again on May 12, will resemble a trial. Three school board members will hear arguments from witnesses on both sides. The panelists — all three of whom have said they have doubts about evolution — will report to the full school board, which is expected to approve new science standards next month.

Spreading across the nation
The Darwin defenders acknowledged that their boycott would leave opponents of evolution unchallenged, but they said they hoped to avoid the publicity that a media-saturated argument over science and the Bible could stir up.

Nonetheless, a showdown is inevitable. Efforts to compel schools to teach or, at least, give equal time to the purported errors of evolution are underway in nearly two dozen states, led by two groups of activists united by their belief in a supreme being who set history in motion.

Related coverage
Live survey: What should be taught?
Newsweek: Doubting Darwin

One group is made up of religious conservatives who espouse the traditional biblical account in which God created the world in six days. The Supreme Court, however, barred the teaching of creationism in a 1987 decision striking down a Louisiana law that said evolution could be taught only if “creation science” was also taught. So today, the movement has shifted to the campaign by intellectual thinkers, some of them scientists, who argue that life on the planet is too complex to have come about by chance.

That supposition is called “intelligent design.” Its leaders say that as a matter of science their principles are not religious, but mainstream scientists have labeled them Creationism Lite, and Christian activists have latched onto them as an alternative stick with which to whack Darwin.

Publishers call the tune
For mainstream scientists, the Kansas debate is just a skirmish. The real battles will come in the next few years as schools adopt new textbooks.

Intelligent design campaigns are being pursued in both California and Texas. Their school boards have long dictated the content of many of the nation’s textbooks because of the clout they have with publishers owing to their enormous student populations. Publishers routinely tailor their textbooks to the tastes of review boards in those states to avoid the devastating prospect that a multimillion-dollar new edition could be rejected.

“They call the tune, and the publishers dance,” Diane Ravitch, an assistant education secretary in the administration of former President George H.W. Bush, testified before Congress two years ago.

The result, Ravitch complained, was the creation of “a convenient bottleneck where pressure groups from across the political spectrum” — including opponents of evolution, she said — “can intimidate publishers and get them to revise their books.”

Fast Forward Evolution in schools
The Kansas debate comes as many states are gearing up to accept bids on new science textbooks:
— 2005: Alabama, Florida, Illinois*, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah, West Virginia
— 2006: Arkansas, California, Illinois*, Nevada, Utah*
— 2007: Georgia, Illinois*, Kentucky, Mississippi, Nevada, South Carolina, Utah*
(* Illinois and Utah review texts in most or all subjects annually.)

Source: Association of American Publishers

Ravitch’s testimony came as Texas was going through a wrenching review of its biology texts. Those books were introduced into Texas classrooms this year. Mainstream scientists fought off major concessions on evolution this time, but the battle is being continued in the Legislature, where a bill is under consideration that would give the state Board of Education — which is dominated by Republican social conservatives — even more control over the content of texts.

In California, meanwhile, a case awaits in U.S. District Court filed by parents who claim that they were denied their civil rights when a school district near Sacramento rejected their proposal that schools should be required to teach the purported flaws of evolution.

While California’s textbook battles have usually been fought by groups pushing more traditionally liberal causes, such as gender equality and multicultural history, the lawsuit signals that the evolution dispute is likely to become a hot-button issue there, as well — just in time to begin picking up steam ahead of next year’s acceptance of bids for new science textbooks.

© 2005 MSNBC Interactive

IGotTheCottons · #2 (**permalink**) 05-05-2005, 07:31 PM

Why are evolutionists fighting this so hard? Why can't the flaws of evolution be taught? Why is it they only want their side heard? Sounds to me like it's because they have an agenda to push, and they don't want anything to stand in their way. At least give the students a choice instead of just feeding them one theory.

Mr Skinner · #3 (**permalink**) 05-05-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Mainstream science organizations spurned invitations to participate, dismissing the hearings as an effort “to attack and undermine science,” in the view of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which publishes the journal Science.

That's just plain stupid. Not showing at such a debate will only be interpreted in one way: The scientists are afraid their version would be proven wrong. So they're actually harming their own case...

I think it's important to discuss these things. No version has been completely proven yet, and only by dialogue can we either find one solution (ok, that would take centuries, if it ever were possible), or develope new theories...

Opivy · #4 (**permalink**) 05-05-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Skinner

That's just plain stupid. Not showing at such a debate will only be interpreted in one way: The scientists are afraid their version would be proven wrong. So they're actually harming their own case...

lol yea,

Peace Pipe · #5 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Skinner

That's just plain stupid. Not showing at such a debate will only be interpreted in one way: The scientists are afraid their version would be proven wrong. So they're actually harming their own case...

I think it's important to discuss these things. No version has been completely proven yet, and only by dialogue can we either find one solution (ok, that would take centuries, if it ever were possible), or develope new theories...

word

DaZEED&ConFuseD · #6 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 02:19 AM

CREATIONISM ISN'T SCIENCE! THAT IS WHY IT SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT IN SCIENCE CLASSES!

What happened to seperation of church and state? It's not like christian kids wouldn't already know creationism without school. Those damn conservative christians are trying to push religion into public school which isn't right. That's why i can't stand conservative christians because what they say, do, and believe is right and if you don't believe in God then you are a satanist and are going to burn in hell.

Opivy · #7 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaZEED&ConFuseD

CREATIONISM ISN'T SCIENCE! THAT IS WHY IS SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT IN SCIENCE CLASSES!

What happened to seperation of church and state? It's not like christian kids wouldn't already know creationism without school. Those damn conservative christians are trying to push religion into public school which isn't right. That's why i can't stand conservative christians because what they say, do, and believe is right and if you don't believe in God then you are a satanist and are going to burn in hell.

I'm not going to argue with you on this point. I think the theory of evolution should be taught along with all the flaws in the theory. When I learned about it in school they taught it as fact which really bothered me. As long as they teach it as a theory and include opposing opinions and questionable evidence in lessons.

DaZEED&ConFuseD · #8 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 03:43 AM

When I learned evolution in high school they didn't present it as a fact but presented the reasons why evolution was THOUGHT to be true.

All theories and laws have flaws. The Law of Thermodynamics is based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system, which is only assumed, not proven. Why isn't there an upset over that flaw in the law? Because it doesn't threaten Christianity. If you aren't going get your panties in a bunch over that flaw, why are you going to do it over evolution. Most physicists and other related fields consider this law to be true and no one really argues over that. Most biologists and other related fields consider evolution to be true, but we all have to get our panties in a bunch b/c it goes against our Lord Jesus Christ and the good book.

So do y'all think all theories and laws should be taught alongside with their flaws or just believe evolution should? It's not fair to just isolate evolution.

I'm not against teachings the flaws of evolution, i just think a double standard is being enacted.

Opivy · #9 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaZEED&ConFuseD

All theories and laws have flaws. The Law of Thermodynamics is based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system, which is only assumed, not proven. Why isn't there an upset over that flaw in the law? Because it doesn't threaten Christianity. If you aren't going get your panties in a bunch over that flaw, why are you going to do it over evolution. Most physicists and other related fields consider this law to be true and no one really argues over that. Most biologists and other related fields consider evolution to be true, but we all have to get our panties in a bunch b/c it goes against our Lord Jesus Christ and the good book.

I dont know what your talking about. I dont know too much about the laws of thermodynamics but I do know that they are tested and proven mathematically in every circumstance. Are you trying to say these laws aren't real but just a theory still?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaZEED&ConFuseD

So do y'all think all theories and laws should be taught alongside with their flaws or just believe evolution should? It's not fair to just isolate evolution.

Give me an example of somewhere I stated A theory should be taught without it's flaws. Give me an example of some teachings that are done without also teaching flaws in the theory please.

DaZEED&ConFuseD · #10 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 05:04 AM

But the whole basis of the Laws of Thermodynamics is that it is assumed the universe is a closed system, meaning that no energy is coming in. No mathematical equation or calculation can prove that the universe is a closed system. You are right though, you don't know much about the Laws of Thermodynamics.

No where did I imply that these laws should theories, you came up with that.

Quote:

Give me an example of somewhere I stated A theory should be taught without it's flaws.

Thats what you said and here's what i said...

Quote:

So do y'all think all theories and laws should be taught alongside with their flaws or just believe evolution should? It's not fair to just isolate evolution.

Excuse me Opivy, I'm from Texas and y'all is translated to "you all." My question wasn't directed to you personally, but to any one who reads my post. So yeehaw mothafucka

Opivy · #11 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 05:34 AM

sorry, thought this was between me and you but i was wrong.

But for the reference I believe that these laws should be taught with their flaws. Now enlighten me please - I'm all ears. Tell me the flaws in the Laws of Thermodynamics.

DaZEED&ConFuseD · #12 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 06:47 AM

It's cool.

Well thats basically the only flaw ( the assmuption that the universe is a closed system) i could find in a 5 minute internet search. I could have sworn a saw something about some flaws, damn brain playing tricks on me. I guess i kinda over exagerrated the flaw thing.

Opivy · #13 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 06:49 AM

Well any links will be appreciated. All I know is pretty much the 1 line definition of each law.

DaZEED&ConFuseD · #14 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 07:15 AM

Links? I concede defeat in the thermodynamic flaw issue.

IGotTheCottons · #15 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 11:32 PM

Even if the universe wasn't a closed system, the law of thermodynamics would still remain the same as it doesn't apply to just the universe, but everything left to itself.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Why Evolution Is Wrong	IGotTheCottons	Spirituality And Philosophy	654	09-28-2009 11:35 PM
thought on evolution...	Turelim	Spirituality And Philosophy	12	08-03-2004 02:52 AM
Interesting article	Dan	Recreational Marijuana Use	3	07-15-2004 07:07 AM
An interesting thought on southern rap...	weedzilla420	Music Hall	4	06-29-2004 12:10 AM
An interesting email that I got today	budburner	General	4	02-11-2001 10:13 PM

Site links

FAQ

Important

Extra

#1 (permalink) 05-05-2005, 07:29 PM
IGotTheCottons Juggernaut/Psychonaut Join Date: May 2002 Location: Smokin the dankest herbs, goin to the dopest parties, and having the best times - OF MY LIFE! Posts: 16,302 Blog Entries: 2	An article I thought was interesting... Evolution related... The article can be found below... I copied and pasted for those who don't wanna go to the site... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7736155/ The evolution of a fight to the end In Kansas, God and science are going toe to toe againBy Alex Johnson Defenders of Charles Darwin’s theory of natural selection are boycotting four days of hearings — beginning Thursday — over the science curriculum in Kansas, where the state Board of Education is made up of a majority of conservatives critical of what they see as errors in the standard theory. Mainstream science organizations spurned invitations to participate, dismissing the hearings as an effort “to attack and undermine science,” in the view of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which publishes the journal Science. The hearings, which run through Saturday and resume again on May 12, will resemble a trial. Three school board members will hear arguments from witnesses on both sides. The panelists — all three of whom have said they have doubts about evolution — will report to the full school board, which is expected to approve new science standards next month. Spreading across the nation The Darwin defenders acknowledged that their boycott would leave opponents of evolution unchallenged, but they said they hoped to avoid the publicity that a media-saturated argument over science and the Bible could stir up. Nonetheless, a showdown is inevitable. Efforts to compel schools to teach or, at least, give equal time to the purported errors of evolution are underway in nearly two dozen states, led by two groups of activists united by their belief in a supreme being who set history in motion. Related coverage Live survey: What should be taught? Newsweek: Doubting Darwin One group is made up of religious conservatives who espouse the traditional biblical account in which God created the world in six days. The Supreme Court, however, barred the teaching of creationism in a 1987 decision striking down a Louisiana law that said evolution could be taught only if “creation science” was also taught. So today, the movement has shifted to the campaign by intellectual thinkers, some of them scientists, who argue that life on the planet is too complex to have come about by chance. That supposition is called “intelligent design.” Its leaders say that as a matter of science their principles are not religious, but mainstream scientists have labeled them Creationism Lite, and Christian activists have latched onto them as an alternative stick with which to whack Darwin. Publishers call the tune For mainstream scientists, the Kansas debate is just a skirmish. The real battles will come in the next few years as schools adopt new textbooks. Intelligent design campaigns are being pursued in both California and Texas. Their school boards have long dictated the content of many of the nation’s textbooks because of the clout they have with publishers owing to their enormous student populations. Publishers routinely tailor their textbooks to the tastes of review boards in those states to avoid the devastating prospect that a multimillion-dollar new edition could be rejected. “They call the tune, and the publishers dance,” Diane Ravitch, an assistant education secretary in the administration of former President George H.W. Bush, testified before Congress two years ago. The result, Ravitch complained, was the creation of “a convenient bottleneck where pressure groups from across the political spectrum” — including opponents of evolution, she said — “can intimidate publishers and get them to revise their books.” Fast Forward Evolution in schools The Kansas debate comes as many states are gearing up to accept bids on new science textbooks: — 2005: Alabama, Florida, Illinois, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah, West Virginia — 2006: Arkansas, California, Illinois, Nevada, Utah* — 2007: Georgia, Illinois, Kentucky, Mississippi, Nevada, South Carolina, Utah (* Illinois and Utah review texts in most or all subjects annually.) Source: Association of American Publishers Ravitch’s testimony came as Texas was going through a wrenching review of its biology texts. Those books were introduced into Texas classrooms this year. Mainstream scientists fought off major concessions on evolution this time, but the battle is being continued in the Legislature, where a bill is under consideration that would give the state Board of Education — which is dominated by Republican social conservatives — even more control over the content of texts. In California, meanwhile, a case awaits in U.S. District Court filed by parents who claim that they were denied their civil rights when a school district near Sacramento rejected their proposal that schools should be required to teach the purported flaws of evolution. While California’s textbook battles have usually been fought by groups pushing more traditionally liberal causes, such as gender equality and multicultural history, the lawsuit signals that the evolution dispute is likely to become a hot-button issue there, as well — just in time to begin picking up steam ahead of next year’s acceptance of bids for new science textbooks. © 2005 MSNBC Interactive __________________ GC Rules \| Read BEFORE Posting In Pandora's Box \|MDMA Info \| My Pickups

#2 (permalink) 05-05-2005, 07:31 PM
IGotTheCottons Juggernaut/Psychonaut Join Date: May 2002 Location: Smokin the dankest herbs, goin to the dopest parties, and having the best times - OF MY LIFE! Posts: 16,302 Blog Entries: 2	Why are evolutionists fighting this so hard? Why can't the flaws of evolution be taught? Why is it they only want their side heard? Sounds to me like it's because they have an agenda to push, and they don't want anything to stand in their way. At least give the students a choice instead of just feeding them one theory. __________________ GC Rules \| Read BEFORE Posting In Pandora's Box \|MDMA Info \| My Pickups

#6 (permalink) 05-06-2005, 02:19 AM
DaZEED&ConFuseD Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 346	CREATIONISM ISN'T SCIENCE! THAT IS WHY IT SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT IN SCIENCE CLASSES! What happened to seperation of church and state? It's not like christian kids wouldn't already know creationism without school. Those damn conservative christians are trying to push religion into public school which isn't right. That's why i can't stand conservative christians because what they say, do, and believe is right and if you don't believe in God then you are a satanist and are going to burn in hell.

#8 (permalink) 05-06-2005, 03:43 AM
DaZEED&ConFuseD Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 346	When I learned evolution in high school they didn't present it as a fact but presented the reasons why evolution was THOUGHT to be true. All theories and laws have flaws. The Law of Thermodynamics is based on the assumption that the universe is a closed system, which is only assumed, not proven. Why isn't there an upset over that flaw in the law? Because it doesn't threaten Christianity. If you aren't going get your panties in a bunch over that flaw, why are you going to do it over evolution. Most physicists and other related fields consider this law to be true and no one really argues over that. Most biologists and other related fields consider evolution to be true, but we all have to get our panties in a bunch b/c it goes against our Lord Jesus Christ and the good book. So do y'all think all theories and laws should be taught alongside with their flaws or just believe evolution should? It's not fair to just isolate evolution. I'm not against teachings the flaws of evolution, i just think a double standard is being enacted.

#11 (permalink) 05-06-2005, 05:34 AM
Opivy Nova Police Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Upper Baboons Asshole Posts: 4,536	sorry, thought this was between me and you but i was wrong. But for the reference I believe that these laws should be taught with their flaws. Now enlighten me please - I'm all ears. Tell me the flaws in the Laws of Thermodynamics. __________________ "I don' think I'll ever touch a daiquiri again..." Last edited by Opivy; 05-06-2005 at 05:37 AM.

#12 (permalink) 05-06-2005, 06:47 AM
DaZEED&ConFuseD Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 346	It's cool. Well thats basically the only flaw ( the assmuption that the universe is a closed system) i could find in a 5 minute internet search. I could have sworn a saw something about some flaws, damn brain playing tricks on me. I guess i kinda over exagerrated the flaw thing.

#13 (permalink) 05-06-2005, 06:49 AM
Opivy Nova Police Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Upper Baboons Asshole Posts: 4,536	Well any links will be appreciated. All I know is pretty much the 1 line definition of each law. __________________ "I don' think I'll ever touch a daiquiri again..."

#14 (permalink) 05-06-2005, 07:15 AM
DaZEED&ConFuseD Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 346	Links? I concede defeat in the thermodynamic flaw issue.

#15 (permalink) 05-06-2005, 11:32 PM
IGotTheCottons Juggernaut/Psychonaut Join Date: May 2002 Location: Smokin the dankest herbs, goin to the dopest parties, and having the best times - OF MY LIFE! Posts: 16,302 Blog Entries: 2	Even if the universe wasn't a closed system, the law of thermodynamics would still remain the same as it doesn't apply to just the universe, but everything left to itself. __________________ GC Rules \| Read BEFORE Posting In Pandora's Box \|MDMA Info \| My Pickups

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)