Christian Toker and the Mission Field I work in

[IGotTheCottons]

Salvation is when you admit that you fall short of God's glory (this usually isn't hard as most people know they're not perfect), and ask for forgiveness. As God is Holy above all things, He can't leave sin unpunished. The punishment for sin is separation from God. We're born into this separation, and if we die in this separation, we spend eternity separated from God in hell.

As for that whole "babies dying during birth going to hell" thing... There's what's known as the age of accountability. When we're in the fetus and for x amount of years after we're born, we're not held accountable for this "original sin" so to say. David talked about seeing his dead infant in heaven again one day. God can't hold someone accountable for something they can't comprehend. Everyone has an age where they can unserstand sin and salvation, and it's different for everyone.

[Orion26]

its like confessions eh and thanks again doesnt he forgive ur sin and let it go after that and not hold it against u as long as u dont commmit it again but what if u do and ask for forgivness again?? i got a lot of quesitons that havent been answered i haven't been to church in over a decade so i missed a lot of stuff

[IGotTheCottons]

Well, it's not like confession in a Catholic church. Basically you just admit to God that you know you fall short... Here... I'll find some scripture to illustrate...

"And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." - Luke 18:9-14

The Pharisee thought he deserved heaven because of his works... The publican knew he didn't deserve heaven, but asked for mercy. We can't go before God with an attitude of "I deserve to get into heaven because of..." We should go with an attitude of "Lord, I know I messed up, will you forgive me?"

And once you're saved, you're saved forever. The Bible says that those who believe in Christ receive everlasting life. How can something be everlasting if it can be taken away? Also, salvation is a free gift, not a reward. A gift can't be worked for or it's no longer a gift.

Don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have about any of this. I'm more than happy to answer anyone's questions - so long as they're sincere.

[Orion26]

thanks again man and if i do have anymore questions which i prolly do i jsut cant remember rite now but u'll be the first person i ask and by the way what do u believe in?? jsut curious on ur views

[with_his_author]

This is my third time posting, this time I hope and pray that it doesn't get deleted because I'm taking so long. So in order for me to not take long I'm going to get right down to the nitty gritty.

1)
Prov. 20:1

Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

That does not say drinking is a sin. It doesn't even say not to drink.

Prov. 31:6-7

Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.

No where does it say to give these drinks for medical reason.

2)

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

While you're under the influence of any drug (whether it be weed, alcohol, or heroin), that drug has a limited amount of control over your body (some more than others). Due to this, you are taking away from the control the Holy Spirit has over you (because we're to be totally yielded to Him and His will)... This is sin.

Say I have a Dr. Pepper and the sugar and caffine makes me hyper. I am not fully in control of my body because if I was then I wouldn't be hyper. But by your statement above I am sinning because I drank that Dr. Pepper and got hyper. You are accepting the false truths the world is telling you. You are accepting that one bad (soda) is ok and the bad that the world doesn't like (cannabis) is not ok because it says so. Not to mention

Col 2:20-23

Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their selfimposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

My question to you is WHY do you submit to the rules of this world? It seems like you think smoking causes you to sin but your forgetting what Jesus said, it's not what enters a man that makes them sin, sin comes from thier heart.

3)

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Yes, everyone is convicted differently. This argument can't be used on something the Bible makes clear is wrong though. Like drinking for example... you can't just throw out an excuse like "I don't feel convicted about drinking" when the Bible says "Wine is a mocker, and strong drink is raging."

How does that say drinking is wrong. It looks clear to me that you are adding your own convictions into the verse. It says exactly what it means wine makes you a mocker and strong drink makes you rage. You seem to be twisting the scripture for your view.

4)

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

God created poisonous mushrooms too... Should we go and enjoy them as well? Even though our end result will most likely be death? God created poison nightshade too (all plants, right?), does that mean we should go throw a bunch of their berries in our pie? Not exactly. Just because God creates something, doesn't mean He intended for us to eat/smoke it.

I thought we were talking about cannabis. If you want to address those plants I'll have to do research on because I've never seen nor tried those plants. So I'll stay on the topic if you can. Can you? Just a reminder it's cannabis we are talking about.

5)

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

Again, taking a verse out of context. Why don't you go ahead to verse 21 and use that in your argument? It says: "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak." Oh wait... You can't use that, because your life puts a stumbling stone in front of other Christians.

The answer is simple for that. Does the verse apply to the setting. No, it would if I was on a Christian website which I am guilty of but we are on a cannabis website. So all those Christians that are on here with us are not stumbling because they I imagin already use cannabis the topic we are talking about.

6)

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

God created ALL things for our enjoyement, right? So I guess that includes heroin, crack, meth, and so on?

So where can I find a heroin plant? Where can I find a crack plant? Where can I find a meth plant? These are all man made drugs. Cannabis is not man made, if you put the seed in the ground it grows. When it grows we pick it and smoke it, no man made anything goes into it. With the other things you brought up there are steps to form it which doesn't include plant a seed, pick when grown, and use.

7)
I about died laughing when I read this post:

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

1 Cor. 15:50??? There is no such verse. I've heard that verse before but I don't know the reference off the top of my head. When you give the correct reference, I'll respond to this.

In many of your posts you said what a great Bible college you went to. You even called it one of the best in the world. It must have been a for real crappy school cause if you couldn't even find a verse I posted you even said it doesn't exsist. Look again my young friend you have made your self a liar: proof:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (New International Version)

I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...50;&version=31;

7)
One last verse to spice things up a little:

1 Cor. 10:23
“Everything is permissible”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive.

Simply put "Everything in moderation". Alot of your points you were reaching for and even more flat out your own convictions. You went to a Bible college look the info up. I ask one thing of you show me how my verses are out of context. You don't even have to do all the verse just show me three verses that are truly out of context. I will gladly say I was wrong if you can show me three.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[with_his_author]

To let those that are reading these post know I work Fri-Sun so that is the only time I will be posting here. I would never run away from such an easy fight as this.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[IGotTheCottons]

Originally Posted by Orion26

thanks again man and if i do have anymore questions which i prolly do i jsut cant remember rite now but u'll be the first person i ask and by the way what do u believe in?? jsut curious on ur views

No problem, I'm more than happy to help. My views on what? I must admidt that I'm a little confused as to what exactly you're asking...

If you want to know my religion, I'm a Christian. More specificially: I'm a fundamental, independant, Baptist. Basically that's a fancy word for someone who believes the Bible to be the final authority, who takes scripture literally, and who isn't associated with the major organized (united) denominations. My particular denomination traces our heritage all the way back to the apostles.

I'll respond to big post by with_his_author later. Not enough time at the moment.

Question, Orion... What's your religion (if any)? What do you believe about sin and God, and the afterlife?

[smoke_the_dank]

I feel more spiritual and closer to god when I smoke. It opens my mind up, and allows me to shed some of my ego, which really helps me see things from a different perspective.
Is my smoking pot still bad? If I feel completely guilt free about it and genuinely feel closer to god how can it be bad?

[with_his_author]

Smoke The Dank-

AS you have seen by the posts some feel it's ok and some don't. Everyone is convicted differenetly. I like yourself don't feel anything is wrong with using cannabis. In fact I see it as something that helps you grow with God. In the Bible it says we need to have the fruit of the spirit which is states as:

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and selfcontrol. Against such things there is no law.

When smoking cannabis or even eating cannabis eight out of the nine are pressent in ones life.

Cannabis helps you love more.
Cannabis helps you have more joy.
Cannabis brings a state of peace in ones life.
Cannabis helps make you more patient.
Cannabis help make you kinder.
Cannabis helps keep you being good.
Cannabis helps keep you gentle.
Cannabis (at least for me) helps keep me faithful to God.

Nothing compares to the joy, peace, faithfulness Jesus has to offer you but cannabis could be the begining steps to finding more about him and more of what he wants to help you with. I say cannabis helps me in three area's :

Relaxation
(It helps me relax obviousely)

Meditation
(I meditate at times while smoking)

Conversation
(People that smoke are more open to talk about things such as relgion)

I thank God for cannabis because the three things I use it for have helped me out more in my life then my own parents have.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[Orion26]

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

No problem, I'm more than happy to help. My views on what? I must admidt that I'm a little confused as to what exactly you're asking...

If you want to know my religion, I'm a Christian. More specificially: I'm a fundamental, independant, Baptist. Basically that's a fancy word for someone who believes the Bible to be the final authority, who takes scripture literally, and who isn't associated with the major organized (united) denominations. My particular denomination traces our heritage all the way back to the apostles.

I'll respond to big post by with_his_author later. Not enough time at the moment.

Question, Orion... What's your religion (if any)? What do you believe about sin and God, and the afterlife?

i believe in Jesus and God but im dont really consider myself a christian because 1)i dont go to church,2) dont live by the bible liek most chiristians do. Im more of a spritual person like i beleive in karma and such I jsut try to live my life as a good person helping others when in need. i believe God lets us make our own decisions in life and then when we die he judges us and see if we deserve to be in heavan or hell. Also, i try to have an open mind about things and dont judge people because of anything except who they r

[with_his_author]

Originally Posted by Tomohiro

Crack is not really man-made...it is a refinement made by man (...from coke...which comes from cocoa plant...which is a seed.)

Heroin is a natural drug...kinda. (by which I'm saying that it comes from a naturally occuring plant....unlike meth)

Crack is man made. No ifs ands or buts about it. There is a process that has to happen in order for the coca leaf to be made into crack. If you were to buy any amount of crack or even cocaine on the streets or from a friend if your picky about words. That is not 100% coca leaf. It is more like 55% coca and 45% who knows what.

Heroin, If I was able to take a poppy seed off my poopy seed muffin and put the poopy seed on a spoon add water then torch the bottom it's not going to make heroin. The poppy seeds also go through a process that makes it a man made drug. I understand they both come from a natural plant but they don't stay that way when it comes to drugs and the drugs they make.

Cannabis as everyone on this board knows is 100% natural. Plant a seed wait 120 days and if the plant didn't die from lack of super vision you can smoke the plant (after it dries out) with no process it has to go through.

I know you didn't ask me anything but may I ask you what your beliefs are. On life, death, God or no God, etc.

Thank you for the reply.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ and Cannabis

[IGotTheCottons]

with_his_author and I have agreed to discontinue our debate in the forum - as it could be a stumbling block to other brothers in Christ. Anyone who wants any more info on our points of view, please feel free to PM us. Sorry if this is an inconvenience to anyone.

[Orion26]

come on continue its a good debate

[Orion26]

Originally Posted by pigwax

don't look to the bible to justify anything, the bible is for the weak little sheep who can't think for themselves.

thats jsut ur opinion

[el-producto]

Originally Posted by pigwax

don't look to the bible to justify anything, the bible is for the weak little sheep who can't think for themselves.

WHAT YOU GONNA SAY SOME SHIT LIKE THAT FOR.....THATS FUCKIN IGNORANT