Should i believe anything?

[ThePhantom]

You should be able to go after what you want. If you are truly intent on getting away, you need to work hard for that. Make a lot of money, rent an island, and live there. I know you said you want to get away from drugs, but what about cannabis? Grow a field on your island, brahman!

[Cmystic31]

I think all the answers to life are deep within ourselves.

We don't have to seek out the advice of other people to attain enlightenment; although that can be beneficial in some cases, detrimental in others.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, life is and should be what you make it out and want it to be.

You are the ruler of your reality. Do what you believe/know is best for you regardless of what others think.

[MelT]

Originally Posted by Cmystic31

I think all the answers to life are deep within ourselves.

We don't have to seek out the advice of other people to attain enlightenment; although that can be beneficial in some cases, detrimental in others.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, life is and should be what you make it out and want it to be.

You are the ruler of your reality. Do what you believe/know is best for you regardless of what others think.

I agree to some extent, but the trouble is that many people need to be told what enlightenment actually is, what it entails (and why) and how to get there too. There are many self-proclaimed realised people who are anything but, and who have no idea what the state or resultant state is at all, and they just sound silly. They're entitled to doit, who cares, but it's a self-delusion unless you are enlightened in the classical sense.

Going your own way can certainly yield results, I did initially and did far better than I could have hoped for or deserved, but it would have saved me many years of practise if I'd simply understood fully what I was doing and where I was meant to be going. We can concstruct our own path, but we can't have our own version of enlightenment and claim it to be valid just because we feel it should be and because it agrees with what we personally desire to be the truth. Fortunately, enlightenment is well defined and to some extent even graded in the eastern meditative traditions, so if anyone feels they've had a glimpse of realisation of any kind, there is plenty to help you further your experiences and see them within the context of the big picture - Satori - and continue to the final goal.

MelT

[Cmystic31]

Originally Posted by MelT

I agree to some extent, but the trouble is that many people need to be told what enlightenment actually is, what it entails (and why) and how to get there too. There are many self-proclaimed realised people who are anything but, and who have no idea what the state or resultant state is at all, and they just sound silly. They're entitled to doit, who cares, but it's a self-delusion unless you are enlightened in the classical sense.

Going your own way can certainly yield results, I did initially and did far better than I could have hoped for or deserved, but it would have saved me many years of practise if I'd simply understood fully what I was doing and where I was meant to be going. We can concstruct our own path, but we can't have our own version of enlightenment and claim it to be valid just because we feel it should be and because it agrees with what we personally desire to be the truth. Fortunately, enlightenment is well defined and to some extent even graded in the eastern meditative traditions, so if anyone feels they've had a glimpse of realisation of any kind, there is plenty to help you further your experiences and see them within the context of the big picture - Satori - and continue to the final goal.

MelT

I see what you're saying. But who's to say what enlightenment truly is and isn't?

I think enlightenment is and should be what we want it to be.

I believe we are all born with the ability to attain enlightenment within ourselves whenever we are ready to.

I'm not talking about enlightenment in a religious sense (i.e. Christianity, Islamic, etc.) because I'm agnostic. I'm talking about the true meaning of why we are here experiencing our reality the way we do.

I mean completely from our own perspectives since we all perceive and experience reality differently. With that in mind, I think we are all entitled to perceive enlightenment in different ways as well.

[G-Sus]

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

-The Buddha

[MelT]

Originally Posted by G-Sus

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

-The Buddha

Well said It's a great quote that makes people really consider what they're doing and why.

MelT

[MelT]

Originally Posted by Cmystic31

I see what you're saying. But who's to say what enlightenment truly is and isn't?

It has an existing, very precise meaning. It was created to define a particular experience that has particular qualities in Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism. In the West we tend to call people who are 'wise' or 'spritiually aware' enlightened, but that is just the Western meaning.

Originally Posted by Cmystic31

I think enlightenment is and should be what we want it to be.

By nature, it can not be what anyone wants it to be, it can only be what it is in the traditions which defined it. Enlightenment (more properly 'realisation' was coined to mean a particular thing. It has a pre-set meaning, with grades and subtleties that have been in place for 2,000 years. I'm not sure what anyone would gain from simply making up the state to suit themselves? It seems like such a pointless thing to want to do. Calling yourself a brain surgeon does not make you one, even if you do decide on your own definition of what a brain surgeon is, do you see what I mean?

Originally Posted by Cmystic31

I believe we are all born with the ability to attain enlightenment within ourselves whenever we are ready to.

I fully believe that too. Nobody has to go through a particular route, or follow a tradition, it will happen when it happens. There is the impression that traditions like Buddhism say, 'Do this or you won't reach realsation. Be good, Be X. Y, Z'. But this isn't true, the teachings of all the main eastern traditions are there to help point the way, not to say that there is only one way. They're an aid, not a dogma. But although there are tens and tens of ways to reach realisation, there is only one realisation.

Originally Posted by Cmystic31

I'm not talking about enlightenment in a religious sense (i.e. Christianity, Islamic, etc.) because I'm agnostic. I'm talking about the true meaning of why we are here experiencing our reality the way we do.

I'm not religious either, and am an Atheist (btw, christianity doesn't have an equivalent of 'realised', Islam does, but only within the Sufi sect)- and I too am talking about 'the true meaning of why we are here experiencing our reality the way we do'. Realisation has the name 'realisation' because it's an understanding about the actual nature of reality, a realisation, but not one that is arrived at just intellectually: you gain this understanding by 'becoming' reality in its entirety, thus knowing yourself and your true nature, directly. There are lesser grades of understanding, but true Kensho is the direct apprehension of the empty nature of reality as self.

Originally Posted by Cmystic31

I mean completely from our own perspectives since we all perceive and experience reality differently. With that in mind, I think we are all entitled to perceive enlightenment in different ways as well.

That's not really true though is it? We may all have a variation in how we perceive colour, or sound, or have a different psychological make-up, but on the whole we are expereincing exactly the same reality. All that differs are the filters we choose to put in place between us and what we perceive. But, having a different mind-set or perspective doesn't autmatically mean that people can then define their own meanings for words. It would be like me suddenly calling a car a carrot and insisting that it was because I have my own view of reality, again it's a bit pointless.

Realisation has a particular meaning, being 'realised as far as I'm concerned' isn't it I'm not sure why you think anyone should be 'entitled' to do this, and also again, what purpose it would serve other than to massage their egos?

Nobody has to follow any rules to reach realisation. Nobody has to believe in god, be good, spiritual or be doing anything other than waiting for a bus on a warm sunny day - but what they percieve has to fall within a strict set of guidelines or it's still just waiting for a bus on a warm sunny day.

MelT

[Felt]

Originally Posted by ThePhantom

You should be able to go after what you want. If you are truly intent on getting away, you need to work hard for that. Make a lot of money, rent an island, and live there. I know you said you want to get away from drugs, but what about cannabis? Grow a field on your island, brahman!

Work hard and prepare to live some time in the prison that many call society.

But I feel the same way OP. If everything works out I plan on moving to India. I know they smoke cannabis, I'll bring a fattie ipod with tunes, and hopefully find lucy out there

[MelT]

Originally Posted by Felt

Work hard and prepare to live some time in the prison that many call society.

But I feel the same way OP. If everything works out I plan on moving to India. I know they smoke cannabis, I'll bring a fattie ipod with tunes, and hopefully find lucy out there

Good luck, it can be done, and very cheaply. I have a friend who had a similar dream and now owns a really great property out there. www.Bristowsindia.com Nothing is beyond your reach.

MelT

[Cha0n1x]

Stumbled onto this thread while browsing, and thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
Whether I agree or not isn't a concern, but I definitely enjoyed being able to expand my mind and really "think" about what I was reading throughout this thread.

If it's not too much trouble MelT (and anybody else who has done it), would you mind outlining a few basics or offering some advice to someone considering breaking free of the 9-5/materialistic (social?) mould?

I've been contemplating this for a year or two now, and yet I always feel very "stuck" and unable to take that first step which you have stated earlier was sometimes the most difficult (Sorry if I misquoted you)

Peace and love all :-)

[Miklelottesen]

I know what you're talking about. A while back I almost couldn't spend one single weekend-day alone without, according to my mom, being less social than I was "supposed to". She'd always assume that I was loosing my friends and that my social life was doomed. I actually ended up believing her and it ended up in stress and depression. Now I've told her not to tell me what's "right" as she's basing that on her own opinions and her own life.

People who tell you what's "right" to do all the time are people who believe they're more clever than you, that you're weak and can't see into yourself and see the consequences of you're actions. These people needs to be told to shut up.

Your life is your life, therefore you should decide what it should be like. That which makes one person happy might make another person miserable and vice versa.

[MelT]

This is damn long, I'm sorry, I hope there might be the odd idea in here that will help.

Getting Out

These are things you might want to consider if you are thinking of living an alternate lifestyle. Be honest with yourself. These don't cover all the possible variations of self-sufficiency, it does depend on what you see as 'getting out', so this is more along the lines of becoming self-employed in some way.

Is why you want to do this valid? Is it a real desire or a knee-jerk reaction to present circumstances, or...?

What EXACTLY is the kind of life you want to lead? Do you want to become self-employed (in my opinion the best option as a perliminary stage) or live in a cabin somewhere shooting and growing your food, or want even to go and volunteer for VSO and work overseas? Are you shutting out society as a whole, or just looking for a better way of earning a living?

How EXACTLY are you going to pay for the things you do need?


How long do you want to live in the mode that you choose?

Will you be able to come back, should you not like it or once your alloted time is over? Leaving is hard, coming back is harder in many respects: readjusting to getting 'real' employment again is not easy. Also, unless you've filled your time in what a potential employer would consider a useful or meaningful way, many will see your time 'out' as being something very negative.

Keep expanding your skills and learning new abilities, or you will not survive as a self-employed person. You may also end up doing pretty low-level work sometimes, such as labouring or say, cleaning toilets. This looks good though if you do decide to come back, you haven't gone off and done nothing and become unemployable, but you've actually become much more useful and responsible.

You have to get food and shelter, no matter how you want to live, so you can't side-step money entirely. How much will you need to live on? Write down potential expenditure, including how much you would need for a disaster fund and a medical emergency fund.

Self-employment/freelancing/being an odd-job man doesn't have to be doing just one thing, and it's really best if it isn't. You need to become a person who will change what they do sometimes almost by the week. Gardener one week, labourer another, driver, writer, etc. If work comes your way you never, ever turn it down unless you have too much on. If someone offers you a job that you have never done then you still accept it if possible so that you can learn a new skill through it. As a self-employed person you have to see everything you can do as being a potential commodity, from being able to talk to people and getting them on-side to being able to take dogs for a walk - big money in dog-walking in some cities BTW.

The two best things I Iearned to do was touch typing at a decent speed (anyone can learn in no time) and painting and decorating. I'd papered and painted my bedroom at home a couple of years before leaving, and a pretty average job I made of it, but it gave me hands-on expereince. So, a year into my 'new life' I heard someone in a cafe say theyhad a papering job and they hated wallpapering, so I offered straight away and did okay out of it. It involved papering a ceilign, which I'd never done before, but I gave it shot, panicked a lot, and got it done. This one job gave me validation. If then heard about any painting jobs I could offer them as reference, and I could then say 'I am a decorator' if I had to.

I have no qualifications of any real meaning, I left school on the day of my 15th birthday, but I was lucky enough to be able to duck in and out of a variety of quite reasonable jobs (and many crap ones) as a feelancer because I can write a bit, talk a bit, draw a bit, use my hands a bit. I'm not brilliantly good at anything in particular, but I drew/designed or coverted 30 PC/Amiga games, got a few books on the market, was a journo', a feature writer, PR exec, performer, musician, busker, hypnotist and all round general chancer, because that's what it means to be 'out'. I never saw myself as being any of those things, I didn't WANT to be those things, my aim was just to do them so I could get enough money to eventually duck out entirely so that I could devote my time to meditation and writing/teaching. The ducking out took place without the money in the end, but it's been over 25 years of living the life that I want.

What are your skills? List every single one of them and think about how any of them can make you money. Think about how you can turn any hobby or skill you have into a saleable commodity.

I used to work as an employment advisor, lecturing groups on similar kinds of subjects to the above (another job I blagged my way into without qualifications because I can write, talk, etc.). No matter who the unemployed clients I handled were (and some had previously been in very high-power jobs), if I said to them, "list your abilities and skills", 99% would only get a handful of things down; and yet when I spoke to them individually and talked about their lives, it was obvious they had masses of skills that they didn't rate. Don't over-stimate what you can do, but don't underestimate. Think about everything you like and what you're good at. EVERYTHING counts. Your ability to talk, write, lift heavy obects, is what will keep you alive, they are seen as desirable and useful.

I know some blades are going to be thinking that they haven't had the time or employment to gain useful skills, but that doesn't have to be a problem, it's not just about things that you have certificates for - though that helps a lot - it's more about the hands on experiences you've had. Get enough experiences in a broad enough spectrum of jobs and you can work where and when you like.

Sorry, I really am banging on a lot here and not talking strictly about living in a cave, but what I want to show is that you don't have to be doing a mundane job and working for someone else.

I'll shut the hell up now after a short list of desirable skills which people of any age can sell. Don't think of this is a negative thing, that the jobs I'm talking about above sound awful. They're really not so bad at all when you're doing them totally for yourself, and you get a funny kind of pleasure from knowing that every dollar you make is another day out of the usual 9 to 5 game. Can you:

Draw
Write
Cook
Speak a foreign language
Paint and decorate
Fix engines
Make models
Carpentry
Dressmake
Cut hair (I know, but there is serious money in it)
Tend animals or have speciality animal knowledge
Garden
Talk and generally communicate well. This is prime. Unless you're going to live like Davey Crocket, you can not survive without being able to communicate and sound happy and honest. Communication is it. Make a mental mark on people with your open-ness and willingness and you will get jobs over and above the pro's. If you can not communicate, learn how to, it's a skill like any other, which anybody can pick up.

Hope this helps,

MelT

PS, forgot to say. I put a cat flap in a bloke's door yesterday. Ten minute walk, twenty minute job for £10 worth of very good quality weed. That is 'out' at its best

[Felt]

Originally Posted by MelT

Good luck, it can be done, and very cheaply. I have a friend who had a similar dream and now owns a really great property out there. www.Bristowsindia.com Nothing is beyond your reach.

MelT

Thanks a lot for the link, it looks beautiful man.

One day ..one day.

[Kush Lord]

"believing" is tricky. It is not the same as "knowing".

Believing means you dont have any proof, you're just choosing to believe. A nagging doubt will still be there. But If you know something, there is no doubt, its fact.

[PMoney]

everyone has their own perception of reality. for example, if a person takes a hit of salvia, sits back waits 20 seconds and blows out the smoke, they are entering a new perspective. just as an attitude shift can change the way we view things entriely.

try focusing on the big picture.