Inner Peace... How can drugs help us?

[LittleJacob]

everyone here obviously has some insight into reality... but, the wisdom that we've gained is not enough to bring about the change we seek. I know all of the things you say are true, but "knowing" is not "living." I've known the truth for years... I seek to be that truth forever.

I know exactly what you mean. To not only know this love that is all pervasive, but to feel it from within at all times, for eternity. The ecstasy, joy and love experienced on these entheogens just plain and simple feels truly right. We truly feel as one with our Buddha/godlike nature and the godlike nature of everything around us.

But the question arises - is it possible to feel the same way without them? Or is this striving for the impossible, for is it only through these particular chemical reactions between these elements of the universe (our bodies and the entheogens) that we can so vividly feel our true nature? To what extent is it possible to cultivate this feeling, power and energy within ourselves using only our internal faculties?

I certainly don't know.

[Ryan1411]

I've been chasing this feeling that feels so "right" for so long now. But it only exists within my mind. I can't seem to make it a reality. It's as if I have a filter in my mind--this filter is the compilation of all of the realizations that I've come to--and when I process my thoughts through this filter I create a new perception of life in the real world. Somehow I wish to ingrain this filter into my mind so that it becomes natural, which is what I can't seem to do. I realize that I've never done psychedelics so I don't know what it's all about, but I know you don't need them to come to realizations, but I'm sure they provide some mind-blowing insight and emotions on a totally different level, so I look forward to that.

But the fact that I constantly use this filter to process my thoughts through makes things hard on my head. Sometimes I wish to just forget everything I've learned and just live, but I don't exactly like that idea either.

[hashASHtown]

Little Jacob... some people have told me that they know the feelings I speak of, but I don't have the heart to tell them that they haven't. You obviously have, because that's it... it just feels right.

Although we must learn from everything, it is impossible to direct these questions to people who do not understand what right feels like and expect an answer of meaning.

So let me tell you what happened today. I was on campus for a couple of hours before lunch today doing a bunch of studying and projects. In between classes and studying I went to have a couple of cigarettes (always all natural), which is always a good chance for a break and a little clearing of the mind. I've been thinking about my plight lately, with future work/bills/stress conflicting with my plans of liberation.
I thought earlier today that the only real choice we have as humans in this world is wether we want to live or die. Every other choice is guided by wether you can/can't or what you have to do to survive. For instance, I chose to go to college to become an engineer... this was because I did not like business and I wasn't good in the arts. I chose to go to Rothbury this summer, but I was only able to do this because I had the money. When I get out of college, I will choose to get a job because that is how I will survive. I would choose to fly, go to jamaica, or buy a yacht if I could. In the here and now, there is only once choice "to live or to die." Wether or not you agree with me, which I'm sure many won't, this is the thought that came into my mind.
Over the past couple of days I've been trying to figure out how one can find freedom. One idea comes up over and over again: self-inflicted starvation (fasting) like Jesus/Buddha did just before their enlightenment. Bring your body to the brink of death and you will find eternal life.
Keep in mind what I just said about "choices" and fasting to become enlightened. When I went to lunch I grabbed up a fortune cookie (not considering the fortune, just the free food) just before I went to pay and eat. I cracked the cookie and the fortune read,

"Take the chance while you still have the choice."

[Stoopid Toker]

Really enjoyed reading the thread. I've spent a decent amount of time pondering this sort of thing, as well as reading about it.

I am very open minded and dont really know what i think about God, or the Truth, or the Ultimate Reality or whatever you want to call it. I dont really care for the standard religions, and am not really looking for a religion...

I guess what im trying to ask is how do i even start to "tune in"? Where do i begin? what do i do? how do i meditate? how does one go about clearing all thoughts from their brain?

I want to find this all pervasive self.

Do you think you could sort of create a guide? or maybe point me towards some good information on how to really start this journey towards enlightenment? It just seems like such a great undertaking, i dont know where to begin.

[hashASHtown]

Knowledge of self is the only knowledge worth obtaining, and no book can give you that. 99% of what you learn will come from inside yourself. Start with the basics (there are a lot of books on meditation)... it will take time, so be patient. I reached the pinnacle of existence 1 year after I began meditating... I lived alone, studied, played video games and meditated. Drugs can take you different places too, but their full power can only be grasped by a peaceful mind.

[MelT]

Originally Posted by LittleJacob

I think his point is that you are desiring something to happen, when enlightenment is realizing that everything IS happening. Always. And thus, enlightenment. What you are desiring to realize is simply everything in front of you, for that is all the enlightened masters realize they truly know. And everything in front of them is also nothing.

FORA.tv - Deepak Chopra: How to Create a New Self

Good post (forgetting that Chopra is actually a con-man who makes an awful lot of money playing on people's hopes. He has been involved in a couple of fraudulent instances, and nowadays makes millions from his promotion of worthless medicines and the TM cult.)

Anyway...

Moving from a glimpse of true reality (Kensho) to a permanent state (Satori) is usually handled by entering into the Higher Tantra as the fastest method, as traditional meditation has a number of pitfalls that actually prevent Satori from taking place - hence it's called the 'meditation sickness' by higher traditions.

To move from one to the other will always begin in the eastern traditions with the 'wisdom teachings' concerning the true nature of reality. This usually begins by gaining an understanding of the Hindu/Buddhist (each has a slightly different approach) concept of sunyata, then supplement this with learning further details concerning reality as you progress. It also requires that you take the understandings you have reached in your moments of Kensho and apply them directly to the reality you see. Begin by looking at the basic teachings of both Mahamudra and Dzogchen and you can't go far wrong. Good as they are traditional Shamatha and Vipassana meditations are not adequate to help you make this leap - and TBH, pretty poor at helping you gain glimpses of Kensho too.

MelT

[MelT]

Originally Posted by Stoopid Toker

Do you think you could sort of create a guide? or maybe point me towards some good information on how to really start this journey towards enlightenment? It just seems like such a great undertaking, i dont know where to begin.

Many people, even those within the traditions, have an erroneous idea of what enlightenment is and what it entails. It's common for people to think they have it when in fact they don't. There is much to be gained from pretending nowadays

To truly begin it doesn't require that you learn how to go deeper and deeper into focussed meditation, that's really just the introductory phase of getting to know your mind. Almost everyone who has ever reached true Kensho or Satori has done so through understanding the nature of reality and learning how to apply it. Even Buddha's enlightenment, usually thought of as him simply entering and leaving a deep state of focus, was through understanding, not concentration.

In all traditions, knowledge of reality forms the key basis of practice and the fastest route to realisation. In basic Mahayana Buddhism for example - which people commonly associate with morality, shamatha meditation and learning how to be 'good' - in fact the teachings concerned with the nature of reality are far more common within the canon than those on morality. Reaching enlightenment is not about shutting out the world, stopping thinking, or reaching another plane, or becoming good; it is about knowing what you are, and always have been.

Be careful who and what you read, there are some terrible books about meditation (and particularly chakras) from what is called the western occult system, invented about 100 years ago, that are filled with meaningless instructions. Avoid like the plague

Anyone who is truly serious about advancing into a state of completion should begin by reading say, Nagarjuna's work on sunyata, or Garab Dorje's texts in Dzogchen.

MelT

[skippyluvs]

Originally Posted by hashASHtown

Now that I think about it, I think that living plants and animals are the upgrade from lifeless matter. They were given the ability to interact with the world rather than swirve along without purpose. Really matter upgraded to algae, algae to...

Lets start at plants in general. Practically no movement, no mind, no connection to other beings. Plants upgrade to animals. Ability to move, interact with others, and subject to the laws of nature, living in a difficult world, without the ability to change their path. Animals upgrade to humans. Humans move, interact with others, connect with others (language), and can manipulate the world both physically (as you already know) and metaphysically.

The argument in the opposite notion could also just as easily be made.
One could say plants may be an upgrade from humans and their lack of what humans would generally call "care" to defend themselves may be a result and/or natural response to being in a state of ultimate bliss and nirvana that transcends physical pain and/or death; a state that no human could ever comprehend even. Humans in their "eyes" may be the "primitive" one's. Do you know for a fact that plants are less advanced than humans when appropiately considering every possible outlook and perspective?

[smokin-n-tokin]

Simply, i believe that drugs allow us to think in ways impossible to the sober mind. They make you think about things that otherwise your brains defence mechanisms would filter out.

The key is not to take the drug to get high, but to take them for a purpose of learning, and an attempt to get over mental hurdles.

Drugs add perspective that you cannot get anywhere else. They all have a specific purpose, and in moderation all are useful.

[MelT]

Originally Posted by smokin-n-tokin

Simply, i believe that drugs allow us to think in ways impossible to the sober mind. They make you think about things that otherwise your brains defence mechanisms would filter out.

The key is not to take the drug to get high, but to take them for a purpose of learning, and an attempt to get over mental hurdles.

Drugs add perspective that you cannot get anywhere else. They all have a specific purpose, and in moderation all are useful.

Actually, it's even better than that. If you're in the right kind of cannabis high it creates the right frame of mind and relaxed body, etc., that's common to the right kinds of meditation. This is one of the reasons it's so regularly used, it can take you straight to the kind of mind and body that may take ten or twenty minutes of meditation to reach. People who get high are in some cases in a perfect access state where correct knowledge or ideas about reality (or just questioning it in the right way) will give anything from bliss states to full Kensho. Many people become more and more spiritual using cannabis because of this, it instills into them a subconscious sense of 'more'.

MelT

[hashASHtown]

I agree with most of that (not that it matters)... Cannabis does allow one to reach a greater state but I believe it is not useful unless one is meditating (just like all other drugs). But, in my experience, the greatest state has never been reached on cannabis alone. Although these drugs push our thoughts closer to interpreting reality correctly, thoughts can never tell "truth" as truth does not exist in a language. I guess it all depends on what your definition of thought is... unless you speak of thought as the infinite void within the mind in which all creativity is created, then we can't seek "truth" from our thoughts, although we can plan on them naturally changing every time we see the truth, as meditation is the deprogramming of false realities.

[smokin-n-tokin]

Originally Posted by MelT

Actually, it's even better than that. If you're in the right kind of cannabis high it creates the right frame of mind and relaxed body, etc., that's common to the right kinds of meditation. This is one of the reasons it's so regularly used, it can take you straight to the kind of mind and body that may take ten or twenty minutes of meditation to reach. People who get high are in some cases in a perfect access state where correct knowledge or ideas about reality (or just questioning it in the right way) will give anything from bliss states to full Kensho. Many people become more and more spiritual using cannabis because of this, it instills into them a subconscious sense of 'more'.

MelT

I have to agree, that cannabis can take you right to that kind of mind frame. The last two times I smoked (more then a bowl) I have been on trip like trains of thought. Questioning reality in the right way I guess. Thats not uncommon, but it has be 10x more intense as of late.

Without smoking it is easy to numb your mind to a superficial reality, but when I smoke I am faced with a wall of reality there is no way around. But thats why i smoke, to reach the mind frame I cant get to sober. I have never tried meditation, maybe I should.

[MelT]

Originally Posted by hashASHtown

But, in my experience, the greatest state has never been reached on cannabis alone. Although these drugs push our thoughts closer to interpreting reality correctly, thoughts can never tell "truth" as truth does not exist in a language.

Well, I do think it's horses for courses. I've experienced Kensho and other states both high and straight and, for me at least, there is no difference at all. The truth within these states is gained in a way that's beyond personal objectivitiy and analysis, (almost) completely avoiding being filtered through normal consciousness, so we can say that thoguhts in this case are accurate.

Originally Posted by hashASHtown

I guess it all depends on what your definition of thought is... unless you speak of thought as the infinite void within the mind in which all creativity is created, then we can't seek "truth" from our thoughts, although we can plan on them naturally changing every time we see the truth, as meditation is the deprogramming of false realities.

I don't see personal thought as anything separate or different from that which it arises from, ie. Basic Space (Ultimate Nature). I never move from perception of greater reality, as it's impossible to do so, as everything is sunyata and Unity. Ther truth in terms of realisation is singular, and there are no variations. The access state itself may vary, and the depth of the knowledge gained can vary, but ultimately it's always the same.

MelT

[hashASHtown]

The difference between meditating high (on marY) is not much different from being sober...

meditating on hallucinogens like acid and mushrooms takes it to another level though. I'm not saying that one shouldn't try to meditate all the time, in any given state, but there is a reason why shamans all around the world have been using these chemicals (or similar ones) in rituals for thousands of years.

Now, maybe you haven't been able to reach this point on acid... acid alone is not able to get you there, or maybe you haven't tried acid. But, my point can easily be shown in the effects of DMT. Because dmt opens up a completely world from acid and weed and sobriety. Try that and tell me that each drug doesn't have a particular purpose.

But remember, this is coming from someone who smokes weed every day, and simply can't find a reason not to.

[MelT]

The difference between meditating high (on marY) is not much different from being sober...

I have to be honest, there are thousands of people over thelast 3, 000 years and more who would disagree, even within serious meditational traditions. However, it has to be used correctly to give the best effects, and it needs to be used with the right kinds of meditation methods or it can be pointless.


meditating on hallucinogens like acid and mushrooms takes it to another level though. I'm not saying that one shouldn't try to meditate all the time, in any given state, but there is a reason why shamans all around the world have been using these chemicals (or similar ones) in rituals for thousands of years.

Meditation on Hallucinogens can give many wonderful effects, but meditators are looking for specific states and insights, not experiences as such, that things like LSD do not give. Ayahuasca and Peyote for example are tremendous, giving wonderful shamanistic experiences - but they do not give the same depth or meaning that meditational experiences have. I'm one of a number of people who have spent years trawling through trip reports and speaking to psychonauts about their experiences. Not one person thus far that I've eer fond (though that isn't to say that they do not exist) has had a true glimpes of enlightenment from Peyote, Ayahuasca, DMT, etc. etc. The only experiences that have been close, but not truly there, have been two people on LSD (one GC member a couple of years ago). All the rest tend to be from weed, or from eating hash.


Now, maybe you haven't been able to reach this point on acid... acid alone is not able to get you there, or maybe you haven't tried acid. But, my point can easily be shown in the effects of DMT. Because dmt opens up a completely world from acid and weed and sobriety. Try that and tell me that each drug doesn't have a particular purpose.

They certainly do have their own effects, but not necesarily the right ones. Of all the drugs currently talked about as giving meaningful insights, DMT is the least useful, as it's effects rely heavily on expectation, hope and fear. Tell someone before a DMT trip that they'll experience elves and Mantis beings and they wil see them. Tell them nothing and they wont. That isn't to say that there is nothing of value in DMT, but it's a fallacy that it contains anything deeply meaningful. Strassman's claims in his book 'The Spirit Molecule' that it has links to Tibetan Buddhism and reincarnation and the pineal are wrong, and he was taken to task at the time by Buddhists who totally refuted his claims. If anyone is looking for general trippy experiences,then DMT is the one,but for serious meditators and those hoping for real insights it's the last drug to use.


But remember, this is coming from someone who smokes weed every day, and simply can't find a reason not to

I smoke every day too and have for years