God/Jesus/religion enough is enough - Page 3

Sam_Spade · #31 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

@ Sam_Spade
I looked at a few of those and saw how the site is talking verses and twisting it into something different.Their also were numbered wrong and I don't think some of these verses exist in the bible.

Ex:

The 1st issue has so many verse that seem to be talking about original sin.The thing is their not even giving you full verses,only parts or half of them.The bible talks about original sin in only four books.Here their talking about original sin when thats not even what the verse is talking about.

You made a lot of hand-waving claims yet provided zero evidence. That's as good as not responding.

Chirstiandude · #32 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 03:58 AM

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

^ that is correct

Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,..."

^ half the verse

Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

^ full verse

1 Cor. 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, ..."

^ half verse

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

^ full verse

Deut. 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers

real verse,different meaning

this is dealing with legal matters within the Jewish court.
As a further note on this issue, there is a concept in the Bible called Federal Headship. This means that the male, the father, represents the family. We see this in the garden of Adam and Eve. She was the first one to eat the fruit;so she was the first one to sin. However, the Bible states that sin entered the world through Adam (Rom. 5), not Eve. This is because Adam was the Federal Head of all mankind.

2 Chron.25:54

Their is no such verse

(2 Kings 14:6)

real verse half truth

This is talking about a story of a king who killed the people who killed his dad,but he refused to kill the children of the murders because it says that dads should not be put to death because of kids and kids should not be put to death because of their dads,but every man should be put to death for their own sin.

Ezek. 18:20
real verse half truth

It does not mention what the other verses before it were stating.Its a story about the evil soul of a father.The evil father was corrupt and fulled by greed and immorality.Well the child saw what the dad was doing and did not like any of the things he was doing.The child did the exact opposite of his father(gave to the poor,gave free stuff.etc),thats when this comes from "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

then it goes on to say "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live."

Rom. 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds."

real verse different meaning

Its not talking about original sin,its talking about something completed different.In fact its talking about the corruption of man in our society and begins to list the qualities of the good.

ya i really don't want to read the rest..i want to go see pineapple express so ill check back here later.

o btw that one verse Ezek. 18:4 "... the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
is part of that father/son story and it skipped all the way to the end of the sentence.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

This means that everyone belongs to God,including the son.Those that do evil will die.

Kempolazer · #33 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 04:11 AM

I read everything....It was exhausting, this is what i have to say;

1. You can't hold the bible as self-evident

2. You mentioned two instances in which you disprove yourself, one whre god supposedly punished you and one where he supposedly helped. These two accounts go against your description of free will, since he would have had to manipulate someone or something (namely you) for them to be true.

3. You make a lot of claims that are simply inaccurate, and back them up with no proof, while Sam Spade alone has provided much more prominent evidence of the contrary, most of which you dismiss as a wrong interpretation.

anyways It's great that you've turned your life around and everything, but it had nothing to do with "god". You should be able to take credit for your own accomplishments, it will make it easier to accept your mistakes and flaws later on. Like when you realize christianity is mostly ignorant miscommunications and political manipulation, and i will go so far as to say terrorism, to and of its own people.

Do yourself a favor and take the perspective of one of us. Try to remove all your bias based on personal experience and really look at what you believe. To summarize christianity is the belief that we are all meaningless toys of an all-powerful creator, who likes to watch us live meaningless lives, and if we do what he wants, we get to live forever in a cloud kingdom in the sky, but if we don't we're sent to be forever tortured for doing things we were never sure were actually bad in the first place.

P.S.- your near-death experience can be explained by DMT.

P.S.S.- I'm just curious...where does chrisianity leave the muslims and Jews? as well as Buddhists and Hindus? Is it all different? Do you just lump them all in as wrong?

edit: didn't actually read your last post because you posted it as i was typing this

Sam_Spade · #34 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

^ that is correct

Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,..."

^ half the verse

Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

^ full verse

1 Cor. 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, ..."

^ half verse

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

^ full verse

So you're beef is that they omit unnecessary sections of the verses? It's not as if the rest of the verse somehow magically validates or invalidates the author's thesis.

You could take a page out of his book and learn to be a little more succinct

Quote:

Deut. 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers

real verse,different meaning

this is dealing with legal matters within the Jewish court.
As a further note on this issue, there is a concept in the Bible called Federal Headship. This means that the male, the father, represents the family. We see this in the garden of Adam and Eve. She was the first one to eat the fruit;so she was the first one to sin. However, the Bible states that sin entered the world through Adam (Rom. 5), not Eve. This is because Adam was the Federal Head of all mankind.

How is that even remotely relevant to the thesis at hand!?

Jeeze, talk about the abundant use of non-sequiturs.

Quote:

2 Chron.25:54

Their is no such verse

Weird... must be a error... there is no quote given either, it's just n the middle of those other two quotes. Weird.

Quote:

(2 Kings 14:6)

real verse half truth

This is talking about a story of a king who killed the people who killed his dad,but he refused to kill the children of the murders because it says that dads should not be put to death because of kids and kids should not be put to death because of their dads,but every man should be put to death for their own sin.

Right... and what... God is just a hypocrite?

Context is important sure, but you're just validating the quote by giving the context.

Quote:

Ezek. 18:20
real verse half truth

It does not mention what the other verses before it were stating.Its a story about the evil soul of a father.The evil father was corrupt and fulled by greed and immorality.Well the child saw what the dad was doing and did not like any of the things he was doing.The child did the exact opposite of his father(gave to the poor,gave free stuff.etc),thats when this comes from "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

then it goes on to say "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live."

See above

Quote:

Rom. 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds."

real verse different meaning

Its not talking about original sin,its talking about something completed different.In fact its talking about the corruption of man in our society and begins to list the qualities of the good.

It doesn't have to reference original sin to be relevant. It's called logical consistency.

Quote:

ya i really don't want to read the rest

Ditto.

Yours Truly,
Sam_Spade

RiskyBusiness · #35 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 04:47 AM

Would you/have you read or watched any of the Harry Potter's?

Chirstiandude · #36 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 03:46 PM

@ RiskyBusiness
Ya i got all the books and 1 of their video games.It was weird when J.k mentioned that dumbledore was gay cause i was like wtf..whats the point in that?

@ Kempolazer
ya i know its really long.

1: Why?

2: Which were? specifically

3: Like......

Ive learned from the beginning that all my mistakes in life are all my fault no one else's and that their not really mistakes,but lessons to be study for the near future.I don't know about my accomplishments because sometimes its like "ya well thats suppose to happen" and others are just "wow" like how during the week when I broke my promise to God,I ripped a brand new $500 dollar suit and fell in the mud,lol I told my friend I think am going to die and thats when he found a $100 bill.

can you provide an example of an ignorant miscommunication and political manipulation?

What I believe is a very interesting question.....(aside from religion)
Personally I think all Christians should try to have an open mind at all times.To look at other regions/cultures and what not and you don't have to even like them,just respect them and try to dig deeper into them.I know plenty Christians who forcefully try to shove the bible down people's throats or who use the bible in corrupt ways.If you don't want it fine,you'll get a second chance but that second chance will be hell.Funny thing is even if Jesus is standing right in front of a large group of people moving mountains and walking on water some people would still refuse he exist,and say hes some sort of a magician.
I know Christians aren't prefect and it seems like their a bunch of ignorant people screaming "no your wrong accept us or die!",but their just really really radical and want to get a ton of people into heaven.

To me this is Christianity:
Their is a guy in the sky who's the boss,know he exists and treat him with respect and your a okay,judge him and your screwed.

Sins,which are the bad stuff people do include:

Cheating on your spouse
Lieing
Cursing
Judging people
lieing on your friends/other people

just basic things of thinking evil in your heart against God/other people,how is that manipulation and corruption? They talk about loving yourslef/friends as much as you you would love your worst enemy.If someone came in my house and killed off my entire family and ripped out my nuts I would have to forgive that person....after I took care of him.

but the thing is if you commit a sin,its not the end of the world,because once your a Christian your automatically going to heaven.Committing a sin is bad because you can feel it weigh down on your conscious even if you didn't know that it was a sin in the 1st place.

but the fact is that ya,Christianity is the only way to God,as awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded it sounds its the truth.

Buddha didn't rise from the dead, nor did Confucius or Zoroaster. Muhammad didn't fulfill detailed prophecy. Alexander the Great didn't raise the dead or heal the sick. And though there is far less reliable information written about them, they are believed in.

Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Moody Press, 1963) to show that coincidence is ruled out by the science of probability. Stoner says that by using the modern science of probability in reference to eight prophecies, ‘we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 1017." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that "we take 1017 silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man."
Stoner considers 48 prophecies and says, "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10157, or 1 in 10,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000, 000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0 000,000,000."

xXMelkorXx · #37 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 04:00 PM

Why would you follow a god who believes in genocide, just so his favorite people can have prime real estate in the middle east?

Isn't god supposed to love us all equally?

And sure Jesus came to get rid of the old religon..but if thats the case, why do you still include the old testament as apart of your religious doctrine?

God of the Bible is not infalliable, for him to create all things, he had to have created sin, so to say he is without sin is a lie.

Chirstiandude · #38 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 04:00 PM

@ Sam Spade
no lol my beef is that their taking a verse and turning it into something else.

like that one part were you said "Right... and what... God is just a hypocrite?

Context is important sure, but you're just validating the quote by giving the context."

by the time we get into Kings,were already done explaining what original sin.After that theirs no more explaining.

Thats like me saying "all shall die....if you don't eat spiggeti"
without saying "The king said: "If all the nations turn evil,all shall die and live in imagination land.....if you don't eat spiggeti"

or

"God is a spiggeti monster"

without saying

"because Timmy wanted to be silly he declared God is a spiggeti monster"

and then saying both scripts are talking about how God is really just a big flying spiggeti monster.

I really wouldn't know what I would do with myslef if he really was a flying spiggeti monster

AugustWest · #39 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

I looked at a few of those and saw how the site is talking verses and twisting it into something different.

lol.. everyone takes what they want from the bible and twists it into whatever works for them.
That's kind of the whole point of arguing the bible.. who's to say what these folks really meant?

Freakshow68 · #40 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 04:23 PM

Well, folks, I have to say this:
I believe because I know what I feel. I feel God's presence in my life. I know the difference between right and wrong and follow that. I treat others as I wish to be treated, even if I know for a fact they will do me wrong. God gave us free will even though he knows we will make wrong choices and bad choices. We all do it. It's our choice to make. He doesn't tell us what to do. I do believe in Jesus Christ as well.
I don't however, go to church. I have not felt God in hardly any of the churches i have gone to. I feel the institutionalized religions have been twisted away from God by manipulation by men for their own greed (in some circumstances) and purpose.
Following the Ten Commandments is a great way to live my life and that's what I stick to.

Chirstiandude · #41 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 05:38 PM

@ Freakshow
Ya you don't have to go to church its not required or anything.Haven't been in quite some time myself....

@ AugustWest
You can read the bible(its really really long) and interpret yourself(have a dictionary) or you can go to a priest/pastor/head church member and ask them,but if the church is corrupt...well then your screwed.Or you can do your own research online and look at what both the critics and the proclaimers say with an open mind.

@ XxMELKORXx: dang...you posted right when i posted...didn't see that
Genocide?

He does love us all equally

No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun.God created the conditions where free will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience(sin) to God.God does not cause anyone to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of our own wills, we decide to rebel against God. God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.It just isn’t possible,the point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature.

what do mean by that second part?

"And sure Jesus came to get rid of the old religion..but if thats the case, why do you still include the old testament as apart of your religious doctrine?"

Blutteufel · #42 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

@ Freakshow
Ya you don't have to go to church its not required or anything.Haven't been in quite some time myself....

@ AugustWest
You can read the bible(its really really long) and interpret yourself(have a dictionary) or you can go to a priest/pastor/head church member and ask them,but if the church is corrupt...well then your screwed.Or you can do your own research online and look at what both the critics and the proclaimers say with an open mind.

@ XxMELKORXx: dang...you posted right when i posted...didn't see that
Genocide?

Why don't you actually try using the "quote" button? That's what it's there for.

Reggin · #43 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

@ reggin
ya i guess i am a jesus freak,but i don't go all over the place around trying to convince people.I tell them what they want to hear if they ask for it.You refusing to read that artice seems to me that your scared of sometheing :/
i hope u laughed just as much as i did

Nobody asked for it. Why would they? You're spewing out more shit than a broken toilet.

Scared? I grew up in a Christian school for 8 and a half years before moving to a public High School. I know all about people like you, and I sure as hell know a lot more about the Bible than you can ever fathom.

I spent quite awhile reading this whole thread last night, and I've come to this conclusion:

You epically fail.

AugustWest · #44 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

@ AugustWest
You can read the bible(its really really long) and interpret yourself(have a dictionary) or you can go to a priest/pastor/head church member and ask them,but if the church is corrupt...well then your screwed.Or you can do your own research online and look at what both the critics and the proclaimers say with an open mind.

i have read the bible, and am aware of how long it is

xXMelkorXx · #45 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

@ Freakshow
Ya you don't have to go to church its not required or anything.Haven't been in quite some time myself....

@ AugustWest
You can read the bible(its really really long) and interpret yourself(have a dictionary) or you can go to a priest/pastor/head church member and ask them,but if the church is corrupt...well then your screwed.Or you can do your own research online and look at what both the critics and the proclaimers say with an open mind.

@ XxMELKORXx: dang...you posted right when i posted...didn't see that
Genocide?

He does love us all equally

No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun.God created the conditions where free will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience(sin) to God.God does not cause anyone to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of our own wills, we decide to rebel against God. God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.It just isn’t possible,the point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature.

what do mean by that second part?

"And sure Jesus came to get rid of the old religion..but if thats the case, why do you still include the old testament as apart of your religious doctrine?"

He created evil, if you believe he is the one who created all things. If evil is something not of his design, then is the the maker of all things? was he the original god? probably not.

So basically what you are saying, is that god didnt create sin, but created it to allow it to happen. So if he created for the possibility, he must of had the concept of what evil is before he allowed for human beings to choose.

Also, evil is not disobidence. Evil is ultimate selfishness. All the ten commandments, they all have roots in fuffiliing the need of self.

You seemed to steer clear of my genoicide point.

What did god command joshua to do?? Destroy jericho completely. Kill all women, children, and men. They also sold women into jewish households. Where they were slaves. Yea, slavery is condoned in the bible. Moses, Aaron, David, hell even Noah. They all had slaves, multiple wives, conquibines, went to war all the time. And these all the supposed men of god??? sure, you might say, they were human. But god seemed to turn a blind eye to those facts.

Hell god wanted to get rid of all the palestinians, who really have the right to israel, not the jews.

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#32 (permalink) 08-07-2008, 03:58 AM
Chirstiandude Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 45	Re: God/Jesus/religion enough is enough Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" ^ that is correct Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,..." ^ half the verse Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." ^ full verse 1 Cor. 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, ..." ^ half verse For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ^ full verse Deut. 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers real verse,different meaning this is dealing with legal matters within the Jewish court. As a further note on this issue, there is a concept in the Bible called Federal Headship. This means that the male, the father, represents the family. We see this in the garden of Adam and Eve. She was the first one to eat the fruit;so she was the first one to sin. However, the Bible states that sin entered the world through Adam (Rom. 5), not Eve. This is because Adam was the Federal Head of all mankind. 2 Chron.25:54 Their is no such verse (2 Kings 14:6) real verse half truth This is talking about a story of a king who killed the people who killed his dad,but he refused to kill the children of the murders because it says that dads should not be put to death because of kids and kids should not be put to death because of their dads,but every man should be put to death for their own sin. Ezek. 18:20 real verse half truth It does not mention what the other verses before it were stating.Its a story about the evil soul of a father.The evil father was corrupt and fulled by greed and immorality.Well the child saw what the dad was doing and did not like any of the things he was doing.The child did the exact opposite of his father(gave to the poor,gave free stuff.etc),thats when this comes from "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." then it goes on to say "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live." Rom. 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds." real verse different meaning Its not talking about original sin,its talking about something completed different.In fact its talking about the corruption of man in our society and begins to list the qualities of the good. ya i really don't want to read the rest..i want to go see pineapple express so ill check back here later. o btw that one verse Ezek. 18:4 "... the soul that sinneth, it shall die." is part of that father/son story and it skipped all the way to the end of the sentence. "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." This means that everyone belongs to God,including the son.Those that do evil will die.

#33 (permalink) 08-07-2008, 04:11 AM
Kempolazer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 78	Re: God/Jesus/religion enough is enough I read everything....It was exhausting, this is what i have to say; 1. You can't hold the bible as self-evident 2. You mentioned two instances in which you disprove yourself, one whre god supposedly punished you and one where he supposedly helped. These two accounts go against your description of free will, since he would have had to manipulate someone or something (namely you) for them to be true. 3. You make a lot of claims that are simply inaccurate, and back them up with no proof, while Sam Spade alone has provided much more prominent evidence of the contrary, most of which you dismiss as a wrong interpretation. anyways It's great that you've turned your life around and everything, but it had nothing to do with "god". You should be able to take credit for your own accomplishments, it will make it easier to accept your mistakes and flaws later on. Like when you realize christianity is mostly ignorant miscommunications and political manipulation, and i will go so far as to say terrorism, to and of its own people. Do yourself a favor and take the perspective of one of us. Try to remove all your bias based on personal experience and really look at what you believe. To summarize christianity is the belief that we are all meaningless toys of an all-powerful creator, who likes to watch us live meaningless lives, and if we do what he wants, we get to live forever in a cloud kingdom in the sky, but if we don't we're sent to be forever tortured for doing things we were never sure were actually bad in the first place. P.S.- your near-death experience can be explained by DMT. P.S.S.- I'm just curious...where does chrisianity leave the muslims and Jews? as well as Buddhists and Hindus? Is it all different? Do you just lump them all in as wrong? edit: didn't actually read your last post because you posted it as i was typing this __________________ Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned. --Buddha Last edited by Kempolazer; 08-07-2008 at 04:14 AM.

#36 (permalink) 08-07-2008, 03:46 PM
Chirstiandude Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 45	Re: God/Jesus/religion enough is enough @ RiskyBusiness Ya i got all the books and 1 of their video games.It was weird when J.k mentioned that dumbledore was gay cause i was like wtf..whats the point in that? @ Kempolazer ya i know its really long. 1: Why? 2: Which were? specifically 3: Like...... Ive learned from the beginning that all my mistakes in life are all my fault no one else's and that their not really mistakes,but lessons to be study for the near future.I don't know about my accomplishments because sometimes its like "ya well thats suppose to happen" and others are just "wow" like how during the week when I broke my promise to God,I ripped a brand new $500 dollar suit and fell in the mud,lol I told my friend I think am going to die and thats when he found a $100 bill. can you provide an example of an ignorant miscommunication and political manipulation? What I believe is a very interesting question.....(aside from religion) Personally I think all Christians should try to have an open mind at all times.To look at other regions/cultures and what not and you don't have to even like them,just respect them and try to dig deeper into them.I know plenty Christians who forcefully try to shove the bible down people's throats or who use the bible in corrupt ways.If you don't want it fine,you'll get a second chance but that second chance will be hell.Funny thing is even if Jesus is standing right in front of a large group of people moving mountains and walking on water some people would still refuse he exist,and say hes some sort of a magician. I know Christians aren't prefect and it seems like their a bunch of ignorant people screaming "no your wrong accept us or die!",but their just really really radical and want to get a ton of people into heaven. To me this is Christianity: Their is a guy in the sky who's the boss,know he exists and treat him with respect and your a okay,judge him and your screwed. Sins,which are the bad stuff people do include: Cheating on your spouse Lieing Cursing Judging people lieing on your friends/other people just basic things of thinking evil in your heart against God/other people,how is that manipulation and corruption? They talk about loving yourslef/friends as much as you you would love your worst enemy.If someone came in my house and killed off my entire family and ripped out my nuts I would have to forgive that person....after I took care of him. but the thing is if you commit a sin,its not the end of the world,because once your a Christian your automatically going to heaven.Committing a sin is bad because you can feel it weigh down on your conscious even if you didn't know that it was a sin in the 1st place. but the fact is that ya,Christianity is the only way to God,as awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded it sounds its the truth. Buddha didn't rise from the dead, nor did Confucius or Zoroaster. Muhammad didn't fulfill detailed prophecy. Alexander the Great didn't raise the dead or heal the sick. And though there is far less reliable information written about them, they are believed in. Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Moody Press, 1963) to show that coincidence is ruled out by the science of probability. Stoner says that by using the modern science of probability in reference to eight prophecies, ‘we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 1017." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that "we take 1017 silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man." Stoner considers 48 prophecies and says, "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10157, or 1 in 10,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000, 000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0 000,000,000."

#37 (permalink) 08-07-2008, 04:00 PM
xXMelkorXx J'aime Randi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In the Arms of Bliss Posts: 3,851 Blog Entries: 1	Re: God/Jesus/religion enough is enough Why would you follow a god who believes in genocide, just so his favorite people can have prime real estate in the middle east? Isn't god supposed to love us all equally? And sure Jesus came to get rid of the old religon..but if thats the case, why do you still include the old testament as apart of your religious doctrine? God of the Bible is not infalliable, for him to create all things, he had to have created sin, so to say he is without sin is a lie. __________________

#38 (permalink) 08-07-2008, 04:00 PM
Chirstiandude Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 45	Re: God/Jesus/religion enough is enough @ Sam Spade no lol my beef is that their taking a verse and turning it into something else. like that one part were you said "Right... and what... God is just a hypocrite? Context is important sure, but you're just validating the quote by giving the context." by the time we get into Kings,were already done explaining what original sin.After that theirs no more explaining. Thats like me saying "all shall die....if you don't eat spiggeti" without saying "The king said: "If all the nations turn evil,all shall die and live in imagination land.....if you don't eat spiggeti" or "God is a spiggeti monster" without saying "because Timmy wanted to be silly he declared God is a spiggeti monster" and then saying both scripts are talking about how God is really just a big flying spiggeti monster. I really wouldn't know what I would do with myslef if he really was a flying spiggeti monster

#40 (permalink) 08-07-2008, 04:23 PM
Freakshow68 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 430	Re: God/Jesus/religion enough is enough Well, folks, I have to say this: I believe because I know what I feel. I feel God's presence in my life. I know the difference between right and wrong and follow that. I treat others as I wish to be treated, even if I know for a fact they will do me wrong. God gave us free will even though he knows we will make wrong choices and bad choices. We all do it. It's our choice to make. He doesn't tell us what to do. I do believe in Jesus Christ as well. I don't however, go to church. I have not felt God in hardly any of the churches i have gone to. I feel the institutionalized religions have been twisted away from God by manipulation by men for their own greed (in some circumstances) and purpose. Following the Ten Commandments is a great way to live my life and that's what I stick to. __________________

#41 (permalink) 08-07-2008, 05:38 PM
Chirstiandude Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 45	Re: God/Jesus/religion enough is enough @ Freakshow Ya you don't have to go to church its not required or anything.Haven't been in quite some time myself.... @ AugustWest You can read the bible(its really really long) and interpret yourself(have a dictionary) or you can go to a priest/pastor/head church member and ask them,but if the church is corrupt...well then your screwed.Or you can do your own research online and look at what both the critics and the proclaimers say with an open mind. @ XxMELKORXx: dang...you posted right when i posted...didn't see that Genocide? He does love us all equally No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun.God created the conditions where free will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience(sin) to God.God does not cause anyone to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of our own wills, we decide to rebel against God. God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.It just isn’t possible,the point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature. what do mean by that second part? "And sure Jesus came to get rid of the old religion..but if thats the case, why do you still include the old testament as apart of your religious doctrine?"

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