God/Jesus/religion enough is enough

[blueend]

i believe in a higher power that constites the universe. I also believe that jesus existed and reached a higher level of spirituality and was a spiritual man that realised many things and tried to teach them to the people.he started a social spiritual revolution but only to be damaged by the so called followers of him and later the church. i am baptised a cristian(in orthodox church ) but i cant say i do believe what the bible says.
in my mind jesus' words were changed by certain people who had profit to mislead and take advantge of the people. what a shame...

ps. i seriously doubt Jesus ever said that he was god.and people who have reached enlightment can perform miracles(which i dont think are divine by god but divine in terms that everything has that divine higher power inside called life.

i repeat i do believe that jesus existed and teached people his ideals and was crucified. but i believe the story has been changed a bit...or a lot.. what a shame...imagine..you reach enlightment ,you try to teach people equality and love in times that the meaning of equality especially there was unknown and then after your death some fuckers make a mess out of your name... if jesus was god after all the shit the churches have done in his name he would have vanish them.so the cristian church still existing is a proof that jesus is not god in terms you mean it. theres no god in that terms for me. god is nature,god is a baby's birth, god is the universe,god is the waves that shape the rocks,god is you and me.
but still those are my thoughts. if you have the faith to believe what the bible says its your right to and good for you.

now i have to smoke.

ps. you do know that the bible is against drugs right?? i cant remember the exact words(by request ill find them) but it says(long story short) that its not good to put substances in your body.as you see i rejected what you say after studying the bible. i agree with some ideas but not with most.and i def disagree with the attitude both cathlic and orthoox churches have over the centuries. especially that Pope thing cracks me up everytime i think about it....hehe..anyway..those are m two cents ave a great day.
NOW I am going to smoke .

[AugustWest]

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

some proof towards the bible:
The Bible tells us that Pharaoh got upset with Moses which led to the demand that the Hebrews make their bricks with half the straw they usually did. Later Pharaoh demanded that they make bricks with no straw at all. If this is true then one would expect to find bricks which were made in different ways at the same construction area. E.g. one with normal bricks, one with less straw than normal and one with no straw at all. Such areas of construction has been discovered. What they found was normal bricks, bricks with less straw and bricks with no straw. Instead of straw what they found was other material such as twigs, small branches etc. Therefore what they found is consistent with what is told in the Bible.

this is proof?

[CaliCoast]

The "bible" has been translated and re-translated so many times. How can anyone trust the translation? Who was it translated by? Men. Corrupt men that will use religion to further their own agendas.

[fuzzyl0g1c]

[auntiesocial]

<i>personally I don't think gravity exists</i>

Any other scientific cornerstones you wish to refute today? We do still have the electromagnetic force, right? Man, I hope so. Radiation sucks and using this computer might get a little troublesome otherwise.

Ironic that in an attempt to discredit science you use the Pioneer probe, built by renowned atheist, Carl Sagan as an example. Here we have a machine traveling at 28,000 miles an hour, 7.5 billion miles away, surveying our solar system since 1972. Its' un-expected drift has been explained by uneven heating from the sun. The research was released in April without slandering 200 years of scientific fact.

When posed with a problem (academic or otherwise) you instantly jump to the most far-fetched, illogical, preposterous conclusion available based entirely on how you "feel".

"Pioneer is off course, gravity must not exist!"
"I feel depressed and people make fun of me, it must be 'cause god is real"

[Chirstiandude]

To that slavery question,slavery was permitted in the Bible because of sin in the world.It existed before the Jews were formed as a nation and it existed after Israel was conquered.God allows many things to happen in the world such as storms, famine, murder, etc.Slavery, like divorce, is not preferred by God.Instead, it is allowed.Where many nations treated their slaves very badly, the Bible gave many rights and privileges to slaves.So, even though it isn't the best way to deal with people, because God has allowed man freedom, slavery then exists. God instructed the Israelites to treat them properly.

The Iliad written by Homer was 900 B.C.Its earliest copy was 400 B.C.Therefore the timespan between these two copies were 500 years with 643 copies.The new testament Was written in 1st century AD(50-100 A.D) the earliest copy was 2nd century A.D(130 A.D) thats less than 100 years with 5,600 copies.The Iliad is about 95% accurate vs the new testament which is about 99.5% accurate.The bible describes places, people, and events in various degrees of detail.These places have been discovered by archaeologist both people and places. archeology cannot prove that the Bible is the inspired word of God,but it can prove whether or not if some events and locations described in them are true. So There isn't a single archaeological discovery that disproves the Bible in any way.The remains of the Apostle Peter's house have been found at Capernaum. Bones with nail scars through the wrists and feet have been uncovered as well demonstrating the actuality of crucifixion. The High Priest Caiaphas' bones have been discovered in an ossuary (a box used to store bones).

the accuracy is really even greater than 99.5%. The reason is because many of the copies that have spelling errors, minor word omissions and additions, etc., are copied and those copies contains those various minor errors. So, for example, if one manuscript has "Jesus Christ" and it is copied only as "Jesus", then the following MSS will contain only the word "Jesus" where other manuscripts might contain "Jesus Christ." All that is needed is to look at an older copy that all of them and the error is cleared up. Therefore, we can easily know what the original said.
Also, if 10 copies contain the same copying error, then the total number of copies with error increases. But in reality by tracing the text back through parent manuscripts that are uncovered to archeology, we can uncover manuscripts that shed light on which rendering is correct.


It is not a myth that Jesus lived, nor is it a myth that Paul the apostle and the other apostles lived. It is not a myth that Abraham lived, or Moses, or David, or Solomon, etc. The Bible speaks of Jerusalem, Egypt, Assyrian, the Jordan River, Bethlehem, the Nile River, the Euphrates River, pharaohs, Kings, and so many other things that have been verified through history. While we had knowledge that mythical stories can include actual places, this is not the case with the Bible. It teaches and assumes factual people, events, and places. Its style is written as a history book, of those who have actually seen what has happened, of those who have been there.


The gospels are not myths.If anything, they are written as eyewitness accounts.consider the first four verses of the gospel of Luke which clearly states that it is a researched document.

*

Luke 1:1-4, "Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word have handed them down to us, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you might know the exact truth about the things you have been taught."

This is not how myths are made. This is how you uncover evidence and record it. Luke examined the witnesses, interviewed them, and checked out the facts. In Luke 2:1-2, we have historically verifiable information:
"Now it came about in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth. 2 This was the first census taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria."

Also, see Luke 3:1-2,
"Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, 2in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."

We clearly see numerous historical statements that have been verified through archaeology. This is precise record keeping, not extravagant additions. In fact, "Sir William Ramsey has shown that in making reference to 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands he made no mistakes!"
Sir William Ramsey (1851-1939) was a classical scholar and archaeologist. He taught at Oxford England, Aberdeen. He authored several scholarly books dealing with archeology and had a major influence upon it as a science.
Nevertheless, there are many verifiable things found in the gospel accounts.


1.Herod, king of Judea, (Matt. 14:1; Luke 1:5).

2.Herodias, the wife of Herod's brother Philip, (Matt. 14:3).

3.Pool of Bethesda, (John 5:115).

4.Pool of Siloam, (John 9:7).


There are many many more citations verified by archeology that demonstrate the accuracy of the gospels. When they mention events dealing with rulers, places, events like a census, who was governor, etc., they are all accurate historically.


Noted Oxford expert on literature and myths, C. S. Lewis,said, "I have been reading poems, romances, vision-literature, legends, myths all my life. I know what they are like. I know that not one of them is like this [the Gospels]."
Regarding the gospel of Mark. "A date before a.d. 50 leaves no time for mythological embellishment of the records. They would have to be accepted as historical."

"New Testament books appeared within the lifetime of eyewitnesses and contemporaries. Luke was written by about 60, only twenty-seven years after Jesus’ death, before Acts in 60–62 (see Hemer, all). First Corinthians was written by 55–56, only twenty-two or twenty-three years after Jesus’ death (cf. 1 Cor. 15:6-8). Even radical New Testament scholar John A. T. Robinson dates basic Gospel records between 40 and 60...there is no time or way for a legend to develop while the eyewitnesses were still alive to refute the story."

@ dirty pete
I said you guys don't believe in a higher power? my bad I can never really know were your stand in religion,so its not my right for me to judge you like that or in any other way.


@ autiesocial
that last part made me laugh


Let me make myself clear.
Gravity exist,its properties are unknown
Research it yourself,their are galaxies and planets that are going against the traditional "theories" of gravity.

http://www.planetary.org/programs/pr...oneer_anomaly/
^This news article will explain the pioneer space craft

my favorite quote "something may be wrong with our understanding of the laws of physics."


btw the bible said that you should treat your body as the temple of Christ.So therefore if you do drugs for your own self ambitions,greedily its bad,but if you were to say smoke for God than its all good.Getting tattoos and piercings are all peachy clean.Things like doing coke is dead wrong because seriously,coke meth and all those other drugs are hard f*** bad.
All things on earth made by God is good,man twisted it up into something else.


WOOT WOOT!!!
Score
Me Vs Critics
3 2

You had me a couple of times,I had to look some stuff up in the bible.

[Kempolazer]

Alright christiandude I'm what you would call an atheist. I'll read everything you have to say and give it fair thought. just explain this.

It is known that the book of Genesis and Revelations were both written approximately 400 years after Jesus's death by a priest hiding in a cave. He said he had a "vision from god"

Personally I think dude was just trippin balls on some yummy cave mushrooms or fungus or whatever you're supposed to eat while trapped in a cave.

Go ahead I'm listening...

[Reggin]

I'm not even going to bother to read all of this.

You "Jesus Freaks" are a waste of space. I enjoy having a good laugh at your expense though.

[Sam_Spade]

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/

Biblical Errancy in all it's glory

[auntiesocial]

<i>The Iliad is about 95% accurate vs the new testament which is about 99.5% accurate.</i>

Umm, OK. You do realize the Iliad is a compiled work of fiction, right? And these numbers, "99.5%"...WTF?

You can't just make up statistics and call that a "win". 99% accurate compared to what exactly? Another translation?
BZZZZZT
Try again; we'll have parting gifts at the door.

The fact that the bible mentions actual places is meaningless. Oliver Twist was set in London, that isn't proof Oliver was a real person. The tv show House--which is great btw--is set in Jersey; Jersey is a real place, Dr. House, not so much.

As to Jesus:
The Romans were meticulous record keepers. They kept charts and diaries of everything. The first century is one of the best recorded periods of history. Yet no mention is ever made of any trial, punishment, death, or resurrection of Jesus. None. Jesus never wrote a single word during his ministry. No lasting book in the bible, no diary, no written instruction to his followers. He must be the only example of ANY historically significant person to go his entire life without so much as signing his name. Add to that, the first mention of Jesus in any historical or religious record, the Book of Mark, was written 60 years after the alleged resurrection! Imagine that. Some dude dies and three days later he is seen walking around and not a single person bothered to record it for 60 years!

<i>WOOT WOOT!!!
Score
Me Vs Critics
3 2</i>

I demand a recount

[Sam_Spade]

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

The Iliad is about 95% accurate vs the new testament which is about 99.5% accurate.

They're still debating over the actual location of Troy. So far, scholars can't even agree on a landmass!

[quankadank]

Originally Posted by Chirstiandude

The signs of his coming is when things start to heat up in the middle east The u.s will no longer be a super power country.The place where bablyon will(Iraq)

Does this mean Obama is Jesus Christ himself if he turns on the u.s? lol

[Zylark]

Christiandude, could you explain one thing for me? Original sin.

Why is it right to punish the descendants of those that break a rule?

[Sam_Spade]

Originally Posted by Zylark

Christiandude, could you explain one thing for me? Original sin.

Why is it right to punish the descendants of those that break a rule?

Ohh Ohh! Pick me! I know the answer!


"One of the most important concepts in Christianity is original sin or the belief that all mankind has inherited a sinful nature brought about by the acts of Adam and Eve.

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,..."

1Cor. 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, ..."

Yet, no amount of theological reasoning can make an inherently unjust idea seem right. Punishing billions of people for the acts of one is not only inherently unfair and unwarranted but also in opposition to other Biblical verses such as:

Deut. 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers (2Chron.25:54) :every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (2 Kings 14:6)

Ezek. 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bearthe iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Ezek.33:20 "O ye house of Israel,I will judge you every one after his ways."

Jer. 31:29-30 "In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."

Rom. 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds."

Ezek. 18:4 "... the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Each of these verses shows that every person should only be punished for those sins which he commits, not those of others."

-- http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/be...html#issref111

[Chirstiandude]

@ reggin
ya i guess i am a jesus freak,but i don't go all over the place around trying to convince people.I tell them what they want to hear if they ask for it.You refusing to read that artice seems to me that your scared of sometheing :/
i hope u laughed just as much as i did

The reason why I chose Christianity over Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism,Atheism,and all others because there are absolute truths, because only in Christianity is there accurate fulfilled prophecies of a coming Messiah. Only in Christianity do we have the extremely accurate transmission of the eyewitness documents (gospels) so we can trust what was originally written. Only in Christianity do we have the person of Christ who claimed to be God, performed many miracles to prove His claim of divinity, who died and rose from the dead, and who said that He alone was the way the truth and the life (John 14:6). All this adds to the legitimacy and credibility of Christianity above all other religions -- all based on the person of Jesus.The Prophecies in the old testament were fullfilled in the new testament.If follows that if it is all true about what Jesus said and did, then all other religions are false because Jesus said that He alone was the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). It could not be that Jesus is the only way and truth and other religions also be the truth.Either Jesus is true and all other religions are false or other religions are true and Jesus is false.There are no other options






@ kempolazer
thxs dude for reading my post
The guy who wrote the book of Genesis is different from the guy who wrote Revelations.
The book of Genesis was written by moses and the book of Revelations was written by John.John is the guy who your talking about.He was a prisoner by the Romans trapped on the Island of Patmos.During his imprisonment an angel(Jesus) came to John and basically showed him whats going to happen:


1) Christians are to expect that their persecutions will be even more severe in the immediate future. Nevertheless, they are to remain faithful and regard these afflictions as tests of their character. Those who remain loyal will be delivered from the hands of their enemies, and in the new order of things soon to be established, they will be given a crown of life and the assurance that the new order will last forever.The persecutions that are now taking place will last for only a short time, for the hour of God’s judgment is close at hand.


2) four "horses" are sent to the earth.They represent the destruction of the planet.The Christians will be instantly transmitted to earth.

3) their will be about 144,000 Christians who are marked

4) physical catastrophes will happen like a great earthquake, the turning of rivers into blood, and the darkening of the sun and the moon, as well as the falling of the "stars" from heaven.This part is suppose to be bad

5) God takes out his wrath of those who hated the people in the Christian community.Their will be a person who calls himself God,and the new world power will be located in the middle east.This person is said to be very well liked and has a charismatic attitude but he is the anti Christ.He even tricks people in the Christian community.His number is 666 and he does believe in God.He will tell everyone to wear his mark (which will be placed on the head/hand some Christians think its the verichip)

6) 3 angels announce that God has come,The new empire has fallen,and the third one announces whats going to happen to those who had worshiped the new leader.The Men will have painful sores,all living creatures in the sea will die,and a series of other bad things happen

7) all nations on earth will end right when these things are happening.Then Jesus will come and the bad guys who oppose him will die.The good guys will live in Jerusalem and the bad guys will come from the dead to make a final attempt to overthrow God.They will die though.and all those that are in the city will go to heaven.





this is just a few stuff as to what is coming.John also talks how about how two hundred million troops will be out to kill 1/3 of the world.He also says that their will be two people in the beginning of all of this dressed in robes and will warn us.It also mentions that the destruction will be both an environmental one along with the human race killing each other (total anarchy)



@ Zylark
Sin affects the heart,mind,desires,soul,will and thought.
Original sin is when Adam didn't listen to God and the hereditary fallen nature and moral corruption that is passed down from Adam to his descendent's.Even though Eve(that little.. can't hate) was the one to sin,Adam is a representative of Mankind.Its not a physical corruption,but a moral and spiritual one.Like how genes are passed from the parent to the child.Personally I think its not far for the whole human race to suffer but...hey


@ quankadank
no that would mean if Obama would be the anti-christ.
The anti-christ is someone who is very charismatic and a people person

Will believe in God

Will appear and deceive countless people near the time of Christ's return.

will try to unify all the nations and religions into one

He will suffer a head wound that will be fatal,and his right arm will be damaged and he will be blind in his right eye.

cults like Christadelphians, and Christian Scientists will be with the anti Christ since they deny that Jesus is their savior

Personally I can't Judge people so am not saying whether or not Obama is the anti Christ am just using him as an example.










@ Sam_Spade
I looked at a few of those and saw how the site is talking verses and twisting it into something different.Their also were numbered wrong and I don't think some of these verses exist in the bible.

Ex:

The 1st issue has so many verse that seem to be talking about original sin.The thing is their not even giving you full verses,only parts or half of them.The bible talks about original sin in only four books.Here their talking about original sin when thats not even what the verse is talking about.
When Jesus die on the cross he rid of all the sins humanity would/have ever make/made

His death was so that we could repent of the sins we made and be forgiven.After all when he died he said "father forgive them,for they do not know"

@ auntiesocial
regardless on whether or not the book is fiction,am talking about how creditable it is to the way Homer original wrote it.


dude...are you talking about Oliver Twist? The guy lives in Minneapolis
call him at 612-871-2019 he lives off of 22nd st.


their was a trail,its called Sanhedrin Trial of Jesus.Roman historian Tacitus has a record of what happened when Jesus died along with Jewish historian Josephus .Killing people by the cross is very very common in that time period thats why theirs very little records on his crucification.the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate was the guy who asked the crowd "do you wanna let jesus free or let this guy free" this is a barbaric man who killed and raped alot of people the crowds response
"kill jesus!"

What is mentioned in the New Testament is revealed in the Old Testament either clearly or in types and figures.The stuff in the Old has been fulfilled in the new


score

Me vs Critics
4 3

you guys are breakin my balls...



edit:
to sam spades post

Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,..."
"so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."


WOOT WOOT!
UBER OWNAGE :P