Is war torture?

[codybridges69]

I believe it is torture. Look at how many veterans have killed themselves. So many that the government tried lying to us and saying it was much less than reality.

[Zylark]

Originally Posted by pavlakos

isnt the point of a forum to talk with others and see what they think? i didnt hear anybody say anything (this is just an example) about the thread that asks if 2 people drink a poisoned drink, is it suicide or murder?
i mean, what happened to open minds and just not saying anything if youre not interested?

Haha, well, in that case: I'm not interested

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by Floydian

I'm really feeling where you're coming from.

No offence to you bkadoctaj, but he's got a good point in his first statement.

You mean he has an opinion that you tend to like. Did you rep him?

And to Zylark: I like to philosophize. Some philosophers choose to ask questions and then consider others' answers. This is the Spirituality and Philosophy Forum, and so that is where such thoughts go. Sound fair to you?

[Zylark]

You do not need my permission. As you shouldn't. Speak your heart, freedom of expression is the one real freedom that matters

I just find this threads justification, to be polite, non-existant.

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by Zylark

You do not need my permission. As you shouldn't. Speak your heart, freedom of expression is the one real freedom that matters

I just find this threads justification, to be polite, non-existant.

What are the justifications of the others? Being thought of?

[Zylark]

Read my first post in this thread once again bkadoctaj. I don't like repeating myself.

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by Zylark

Read my first post in this thread once again bkadoctaj. I don't like repeating myself.

You had the energy to talk and stress your annoyance, but not to clarify your ideas.

[Floydian]

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

You had the energy to talk and stress your annoyance, but not to clarify your ideas.

He had the energy to say he doesn't like repeating himself.

Quite different from not having the energy to clarify his ideas, which he had already posted.

And btw, no I didn't rep him; needed to spread it around more.

[flyhalf87]

what i think was meant by that whole thing, is that instead of arguing to pick out little technicalities, the way this forum works is you ask a question not looking to show everyone that theyre wrong and youre right, its to show others what you think of something, and then take in other opinions and actually take them into consideration.

in other words bring up questions looking to prove yourself wrong, instead of only trying to prove others wrong. that way you can improve your mind.

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by flyhalf87

what i think was meant by that whole thing, is that instead of arguing to pick out little technicalities, the way this forum works is you ask a question not looking to show everyone that theyre wrong and youre right, its to show others what you think of something, and then take in other opinions and actually take them into consideration.

in other words bring up questions looking to prove yourself wrong, instead of only trying to prove others wrong. that way you can improve your mind.

Man, you are a cool dude.

[Rhythm of Life]

Originally Posted by flyhalf87

its torture if your intentions are to harm the people instead of help them (meaning if you are defending yourself you dont attack civilians, if you are attacking, you better have a damn good reason). its torture to engage in a war that the other side doesnt want, and does not deserve it (Iraq is not an example, cuz even though the government may have had ulterior motives, it DID help the people, and no im not talking out of my ass, i know natives of the middle east including Iraq Iran and Afghanistan and have heard several opinions). and its torture to implement a draft, making your own people fight against their will, it should be a choice.

How do you know they are helping?

Who is to judge whether which side is welcoming of the battle? The people? Its officials? Its military?

Also you are talking out of your ass. From the 5 million refugees cause by this war on terror how many have been helped? Did we help them lose their homes? Their jobs? Yes we did if thats what you mean by helping.

Originally Posted by codybridges69

I believe it is torture. Look at how many veterans have killed themselves. So many that the government tried lying to us and saying it was much less than reality.

The government hasn't really needed to lie because of the military and its regulations. And here's an excerpt from one of my essays to explain why:

“One in five service members who have returned from Iraq or Afghanistan report symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder or major depression,” which makes Americans wonder if they cost of the war is worth the benefit (Alvarez). The war in Iraq promised to return safety to US citizens but now it is resulting in more injured Americans, making it difficult for the public to continue to support the war. A soldier could have sustained damages to their mental health due to the traumatic experiences they encounter in Iraq. Many veterans are amputees because the convoy they were in was struck by an IED (Incendiary Explosive Device). The veterans of the Iraqi and Afghani battlefronts are becoming of new public interest due to the lack of care the government is willing to provide. One major issue many veterans are battling with is whether or not going in for medical treatment is worth it. With “little more than half of [soldiers having] sought mental treatment” after coming home from the war in Iraq many of our veterans go without proper care (Alvarez). One of the main reasons they choose not to seek treatment is from the “fear that their medical information will be used to derail their careers [because] commanders typically have access to a service member’s military medical records” (Alvarez). By having the ability to look at a soldier’s medical file a commander can prefer to promote a soldier with a positive medical history over a veteran who used to have a mental health disorder. With so many careers on the line many soldiers choose to keep medical problems to themselves. The cost to rehabilitate all soldiers properly is also an issue. To appropriately fund the rehabilitation of soldiers the cost would stagger around “$6.2 billion, an amount that includes medical care, lost productivity and losses from suicide” (Alvarez). The result of having to endure such an expense would lead to the government stacking more expenses on top of one of US’ most expensive wars.

It is much less because those who don't go in for treatment can't be considered as people who committed suicide from war time trauma.

__________________________________________________ __________
Back to the OP

War can only be torture on an individual basis, some live to fight, some fight to live.

[flyhalf87]

Originally Posted by Rhythm of Life

How do you know they are helping?

Who is to judge whether which side is welcoming of the battle? The people? Its officials? Its military?

Also you are talking out of your ass. From the 5 million refugees cause by this war on terror how many have been helped? Did we help them lose their homes? Their jobs? Yes we did if thats what you mean by helping.

You don't, but if you try and it works out, its not torture, its liberation

The people

do you have any family that were in the middle east when sadaam used chemical weapons on his own people as well as iranian people? sit down and shut the fuck up

[Rhythm of Life]

Originally Posted by flyhalf87

do you have any family that were in the middle east when sadaam used chemical weapons on his own people as well as iranian people? sit down and shut the fuck up

No I don't. Having family over there is completely beside the point. The fact of the matter is with approximately 5 million displaced citizens who are now refugees along with the thousands of civilian casualties one can only think that despite the fact that a dictator was removed from his office the actions of our military might have been more detrimental then helpful.

I may not know exactly what is happening over there from an Iraqi civilians point of view but seeing as I have had four family members serve over seas for multiple tours I have some insight in what is occurring. Combine that with my twenty page research paper on the effect of the Iraqi War and I think I might know just a tad bit more about this than you. A few eyewitness accounts does not accurately tell the whole story.

If you would like to speak about this in an intelligent manner then do proceed but insults are not what I am looking for.

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by Rhythm of Life

No I don't. Having family over there is completely beside the point. The fact of the matter is with approximately 5 million displaced citizens who are now refugees along with the thousands of civilian casualties one can only think that despite the fact that a dictator was removed from his office the actions of our military might have been more detrimental then helpful.

I may not know exactly what is happening over there from an Iraqi civilians point of view but seeing as I have had four family members serve over seas for multiple tours I have some insight in what is occurring. Combine that with my twenty page research paper on the effect of the Iraqi War and I think I might know just a tad bit more about this than you. A few eyewitness accounts does not accurately tell the whole story.

If you would like to speak about this in an intelligent manner then do proceed but insults are not what I am looking for.

I doubt you know you know more, but you have an interpretation that sounds more correct to you, is that correct?

[Rhythm of Life]

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

I doubt you know you know more, but you have an interpretation that sounds more correct to you, is that correct?

I understand what your getting at with Iraqi opinion but when it comes to data and overall opinion rest-assured, I am more knowledgeable.

This was a research paper I wrote and although my opinion might have surfaced in some parts it was only to agree with the statistics provided to me. My interpretation of the data was left not really an interpretation but more so re-statement of the facts. With so many clear cut statistics I find it hard to imagine how someone could misconstrue them especially after 4 months of research.

There was nearly no interpretation used, merely an extension of the information I read.