Will Bush be the NAU 'president' in 2012?

[Liquidtruth]

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

Want to know something? I spent all last summer doing research. I WAS a "conspiracy theorist". That is what gives me the personal authority to say what I have. I've seen and heard all this stuff. Connect anything "bad" and you have a conspiracy. It only takes two...

EDIT #2: And I know how those videos are, you see one, you see links to another, and from there links to more... Ever wonder why people are charging money for the videos if this is all for truth trying to get out to as many people as possible? I mean, did you ever wonder? Did you ever doubt the conspiracy theorists as much as you've doubted the "conspirators"?

Do mine eyes deceive? Has skepticism indeed reared its noble head?

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by Liquidtruth

Do mine eyes deceive? Has skepticism indeed reared its noble head?

Noble? lol I would never use that word to describe it myself. Must be Liquidtruth speaking.

And if, by skeptical, you mean sharing personal experience, then yeah, it did.

[Liquidtruth]

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

Noble? lol I would never use that word to describe it myself. Must be Liquidtruth speaking.

And if, by skeptical, you mean sharing personal experience, then yeah, it did.

I do not mean to point out the obvious, but... Indeed, it was I who was speaking!

And nope, that is not what I meant.

[pavlakos]

thing is guys, its not just a theory...well actually it is, but it is a very plausible theory.
sure you could string together a bunch of bad shit and say hey look theres a conspiracy. but not when its the same people and same familys responsible for coincidences, not when the NWO has been publicly announced quite a few times, not when the NWO plans are written in stone.

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by pavlakos

thing is guys, its not just a theory...well actually it is, but it is a very plausible theory.
sure you could string together a bunch of bad shit and say hey look theres a conspiracy. but not when its the same people and same familys responsible for coincidences, not when the NWO has been publicly announced quite a few times, not when the NWO plans are written in stone.

Where are these plans? Can you show they are more real than God's inscriptions in the Bible? And also, can you show the intent of the authors?

[TiCkEr]

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

Want to know something? I spent all last summer doing research. I WAS a "conspiracy theorist". That is what gives me the personal authority to say what I have. I've seen and heard all this stuff. Connect anything "bad" and you have a conspiracy. It only takes two...

I'm sorry to hear you spent ALL last summer doing research, obsessing into all the conspiracy theories can take a tole on a person. I've done it in bits in pieces over the years and hold my point of view firmly.

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

EDIT: I hate to sound like my dad here, but you'll be saying the same things I'm saying to you to someone else somewhere down the road. You can't stay negative your whole life... (although I do admit you're positive about your negativity)

Again, you make assumptions that are totally wrong. I'm actually a very positive, optimistic, outgoing person, I love my life.

"I hate to sound like my dad here, but you'll be saying the same things I'm saying to you to someone else somewhere down the road. You can't stay in denial while making false assumptions of others your whole life. It is never healthy to judge others when you yourself cannot relate."

FYI, when debating, it is never good to try and make things personal. It usually means you are running out of things to say or arguments. You seem like a bright kid.. unfortunately you were not ready to see the world for what it really is. Just because I can see that there are many negative "bad" people in this world, and many "bad" events taking place, does not mean I am a negative person. Being ignorant by pretending we live in lala land where the unicorns bring you to work while everyone waves at you and throws lovely flowers and chocolates at you will get you nowhere (ok so I exaggerated a bit). A truly good person is someone who sees the world for what it is, tries to make a difference for the better, while always seeing the beauty and good in everyone & everything. Nobody is EVIL, they have merely lost their ways. Evil is but an absence of good.

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

EDIT #2: And I know how those videos are, you see one, you see links to another, and from there links to more... Ever wonder why people are charging money for the videos if this is all for truth trying to get out to as many people as possible? I mean, did you ever wonder? Did you ever doubt the conspiracy theorists as much as you've doubted the "conspirators"?

The way you think seems to be very black and white (governed.. go figure). There are many people out there who are genuine people, not charging a penny for any of their work. There are also people out there who are genuine but also charging $$$ for their work. Are they evil for doing so? No. They need to put food on the table, pay the bills, maybe they have children, let alone pay for the cost of their books/dvds or whatever their selling. Do you go to work for free everyday? Having said that, there are money hungry people who are in this for the wrong reasons (mainly the people throwing out a bunch of dis-info). It is up to you to sift through all the garbage thats out there, no one else. Does that mean we stereotype all conspiracy theorists and label them? I've doubted many theorists and still do, I take the information handed to me, do my own research, & formulate my own opinion on what I truly believe to be true.

Have you ever stopped to wonder that the powers that be might want to discredit these conspiracy theorists? And if so, the only thing they would have to do is create some "false prophets" or con conspiracy theorists. They could have them debunked, have them preaching crazy theories that contradict other theories, etc. It doesn't take long thereafter for the masses to go.. "oh all of those conspiracy theorists are a load of BS". Catch my drift?

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

Where are these plans? Can you show they are more real than God's inscriptions in the Bible? And also, can you show the intent of the authors?

More real than God's inscriptions in the Bible? First of all, the Bible should not be taken literally. Secondly, your argument is flawed from the get go because the Bible was written by man, not god. The Bible does speak many truths, but like most all religious texts, it has tons of dis-info in it as well to keep the masses in a "belief" system instead of knowing their true origin. Can you show the intent of the authors in the bible? No. Where are these plan? Why is it up to us to show you? Why don't you disprove the NWO for us then? Don't relly on others to show you the way, be free and think for yourself. Perhaps attempt to do more research down the road when you've gained more life experience.

The thing that gets me most about these threads are that they get us nowhere.. when we truly are all on the same team.. regardless of if your religious, spiritual or if you are not, or if you believe in the NWO or not. We are all human beings out to enjoy life and make the best of it. Deep down we all want the same thing.

"And in the end.. it isn't the years in your life that counts.. but the life in your years."

TiCkEr

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by TiCkEr

More real than God's inscriptions in the Bible? First of all, the Bible should not be taken literally. Secondly, your argument is flawed from the get go because the Bible was written by man, not god. The Bible does speak many truths, but like most all religious texts, it has tons of dis-info in it as well to keep the masses in a "belief" system instead of knowing their true origin. Can you show the intent of the authors in the bible? No. Where are these plan? Why is it up to us to show you? Don't relly on others to show you the way, be free and think for yourself. Perhaps attempt to do more research down the road when you've gained more life experience.

Why should the Bible not be taken literally, but this government conspiracy theory should? You cannot show the intent of the authors of the Bible, just as you cannot show the intent of the authors of these theories. I think you sort of missed his point.... if you can't rely on others to show you the way with the Bible, why should you rely on others to show you the way with these theories and videos? You said to be free and think for yourself, but if you obtain your beliefs from a video that someone else made or a theory that someone else came up with, are you really thinking for yourself? It goes both ways... if you want to think independently, then not only do you have to question the "official account" but you also have to question the conspiracy theory.

[TiCkEr]

Originally Posted by CosmicSerpent

Why should the Bible not be taken literally, but this government conspiracy theory should? You cannot show the intent of the authors of the Bible, just as you cannot show the intent of the authors of these theories. I think you sort of missed his point.... if you can't rely on others to show you the way with the Bible, why should you rely on others to show you the way with these theories and videos? You said to be free and think for yourself, but if you obtain your beliefs from a video that someone else made or a theory that someone else came up with, are you really thinking for yourself? It goes both ways... if you want to think independently, then not only do you have to question the "official account" but you also have to question the conspiracy theory.

Which is what I clearly said I did in my post. Theories and videos can be great tools to spark an interest and encourage further investigation. I never said anything about watching a video and basing my entire belief on it. As far as I'm aware, I don't believe any religions sift through the Bible picking out parts that they feel are wrong/incorrect (correct me if I'm wrong). Your either with it or your not.. thus you can't really make a comparison. I understood his point, but I think you missed mine completely once again. The Bible was written long ago and speaks of accounts/events that have occurred long ago, the NWO is happening right now, thus it can be proven if you are willing to open yourself up to the possibility.

Also, I never said you can show the intent of the authors of these theories. The only person who truly knows my intentions is myself, just like the only person who truly knows your intentions is yourself. The Bible should not be taken literally because if you do so, you believe that a God lives up in the sky and if you disobey him, he will cast you to an eternal hell where you shall live for all of eternity! Great way to scare people into religion if you ask me, but this has nothing to do with this thread and were not about to get into it, because that would be a whole other debate by itself. I could go on and on with the issues I have regarding the Bible and organized religion, but that is just my opinion and I have nothing against people who choose to follow either the Bible or religion.

TiCkEr

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by TiCkEr

As far as I'm aware, I don't believe any religions sift through the Bible picking out parts that they feel are wrong/incorrect.

Then you obviously don't know a whole lot about the different denominations of Christianity.

The Bible should not be taken literally because if you do so, you believe that a God lives up in the sky and if you disobey him, he will cast you to an eternal hell where you shall live for all of eternity! Great way to scare people into religion if you ask me, but this has nothing to do with this thread and were not about to get into it, because that would be a whole other debate by itself.

If only you could see this theory from the same perspective that you see the Bible. I'll use your words, and just replace the details: The 9/11 conspiracy theory should not be taken literally because if you do so, you believe that the government has the power to deceive millions, organize massive terrorist attacks against its own people, and disregard the constitution. Great way to scare people into believing the theory if you ask me.

[tea.mochi]

The whole disregarding the constitution isn't part of a spooky ooky theory tho, its a fact.
I mean, look at what some of the presidential candidates want to do even, they want to toss the constitution out the window as Bush has.

[TiCkEr]

Originally Posted by CosmicSerpent

Then you obviously don't know a whole lot about the different denominations of Christianity.

Lol I really don't, please enlighten me! I do think it's silly how there are tons of different religions, and even denominations in 1 religion. All who think they are right and the others are wrong.

Originally Posted by CosmicSerpent

If only you could see this theory from the same perspective that you see the Bible. I'll use your words, and just replace the details: The 9/11 conspiracy theory should not be taken literally because if you do so, you believe that the government has the power to deceive millions, organize massive terrorist attacks against its own people, and disregard the constitution. Great way to scare people into believing the theory if you ask me.

I got a good laugh out of this, so props hehe.

Although I found your interpretation quite funny, here are my issues with it. You are comparing world events occurring today in the present time, to a book written thousands of years ago, that has been passed down time and time again, misinterpreted time and time again. Religion scares people with the perspective of "life after death", living in an eternal hell, not the fear of dying itself. I don't find the theory "scary" at all.. the governments only have the power to which we give them. They are no more than the Wizard hiding behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. Right now that curtain is still up, but it is starting to tear and for good reason.

Anyways, let's continue shall we!

The 9/11 conspiracy theory should be taken literally because if you do not, you believe that the government was unable to defend it's own country against a small number of terrorists, that terrorists were able to fly giant airliners into the trade centers and the pentagon, that the United States of America were unable to find Osama but tiny news journalists were and even conducted interviews with him, and that taking away more of our liberties is the way to handle the situation, working towards rendering the constitution useless. Create a problem, wait for the reaction, and offer a solution which was the main goal in the first place. Great way to scare people into giving up more of their liberties if you ask me.

Anyways, I'm off to town to buy some equip for my grow box! Ciao for now brown cow!

TiCkEr

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by TiCkEr

I'm sorry to hear you spent ALL last summer doing research, obsessing into all the conspiracy theories can take a tole on a person. I've done it in bits in pieces over the years and hold my point of view firmly.



Again, you make assumptions that are totally wrong. I'm actually a very positive, optimistic, outgoing person, I love my life.

"I hate to sound like my dad here, but you'll be saying the same things I'm saying to you to someone else somewhere down the road. You can't stay in denial while making false assumptions of others your whole life. It is never healthy to judge others when you yourself cannot relate."

FYI, when debating, it is never good to try and make things personal. It usually means you are running out of things to say or arguments. You seem like a bright kid.. unfortunately you were not ready to see the world for what it really is. Just because I can see that there are many negative "bad" people in this world, and many "bad" events taking place, does not mean I am a negative person. Being ignorant by pretending we live in lala land where the unicorns bring you to work while everyone waves at you and throws lovely flowers and chocolates at you will get you nowhere (ok so I exaggerated a bit). A truly good person is someone who sees the world for what it is, tries to make a difference for the better, while always seeing the beauty and good in everyone & everything. Nobody is EVIL, they have merely lost their ways. Evil is but an absence of good.



The way you think seems to be very black and white (governed.. go figure). There are many people out there who are genuine people, not charging a penny for any of their work. There are also people out there who are genuine but also charging $$$ for their work. Are they evil for doing so? No. They need to put food on the table, pay the bills, maybe they have children, let alone pay for the cost of their books/dvds or whatever their selling. Do you go to work for free everyday? Having said that, there are money hungry people who are in this for the wrong reasons (mainly the people throwing out a bunch of dis-info). It is up to you to sift through all the garbage thats out there, no one else. Does that mean we stereotype all conspiracy theorists and label them? I've doubted many theorists and still do, I take the information handed to me, do my own research, & formulate my own opinion on what I truly believe to be true.

Have you ever stopped to wonder that the powers that be might want to discredit these conspiracy theorists? And if so, the only thing they would have to do is create some "false prophets" or con conspiracy theorists. They could have them debunked, have them preaching crazy theories that contradict other theories, etc. It doesn't take long thereafter for the masses to go.. "oh all of those conspiracy theorists are a load of BS". Catch my drift?



More real than God's inscriptions in the Bible? First of all, the Bible should not be taken literally. Secondly, your argument is flawed from the get go because the Bible was written by man, not god. The Bible does speak many truths, but like most all religious texts, it has tons of dis-info in it as well to keep the masses in a "belief" system instead of knowing their true origin. Can you show the intent of the authors in the bible? No. Where are these plan? Why is it up to us to show you? Why don't you disprove the NWO for us then? Don't relly on others to show you the way, be free and think for yourself. Perhaps attempt to do more research down the road when you've gained more life experience.

The thing that gets me most about these threads are that they get us nowhere.. when we truly are all on the same team.. regardless of if your religious, spiritual or if you are not, or if you believe in the NWO or not. We are all human beings out to enjoy life and make the best of it. Deep down we all want the same thing.

"And in the end.. it isn't the years in your life that counts.. but the life in your years."

TiCkEr

I'm glad to hear your thoughts. Question: do you know my intent?

As for my statement, "I WAS a conspiracy theorist", that meant that I did research. Obviously I didn't adopt those theories. Hence, was. Like you've pointed out, they are theories. I understand you believe you know more. I told my dad the same thing. Just drawing some similarities. Take them for what you will, but I say to you that I do not judge your perceptions of the world. If you wish to judge mine, I will not try to stop you.

EDIT: My (non-)understanding is the same for me as my (subjective) experience. Thus, there is no need to take what I say as anything more than personal opinion. Just wanted to stress that.

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by teamochi

The whole disregarding the constitution isn't part of a spooky ooky theory tho, its a fact.

I agree it's a fact, but it is still part of the theory. You bring up an important point though... the reason these theories are considered plausible and even truthful by so many people is because they do rely on real facts. Bush received warnings about 9/11, that's a fact. Bush and his associates have indirect ties to the bin Laden family, that's a fact. Cheney and others have profited from the war because of their involvement with Halliburton, that's a fact. Bush has (mostly through the Patriot Act) violated our constitutional rights, that's a fact. Obviously I could keep going, but you get the point.

It is only when all of these facts are presented with various details twisted, and put together with non-facts, that they become the basis of the conspiracy theory. By themselves, the facts definitely suggest to any reasonable person that Bush is a horrible president, he has violated our rights, he has fought an unjust war, etc. But I see no single fact, or even combination of facts that would suggest Bush or any other government official had anything to do with planning and carrying out the events of 9/11. He may have let it happen, but proving that it was intentional at all is basically impossible.

As much as people hate Michael Moore, his movie Fahrenheit 9/11 is a very accurate portrayal of the Bush presidency.

I mean, look at what some of the presidential candidates want to do even, they want to toss the constitution out the window as Bush has.

Maybe McCain, but do you feel that way about Obama? I don't see how any of his policies disregard the constitution.

[TiCkEr]

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

I'm glad to hear your thoughts. Question: do you know my intent?

Nope only you know your own intent.

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

As for my statement, "I WAS a conspiracy theorist", that meant that I did research. Obviously I didn't adopt those theories. Hence, was. Like you've pointed out, they are theories. I understand you believe you know more. I told my dad the same thing. Just drawing some similarities. Take them for what you will, but I say to you that I do not judge your perceptions of the world. If you wish to judge mine, I will not try to stop you.

I don't believe I know more, I really could care less. We simply have strong beliefs on opposite sides of the coin, no biggy really. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do not wish to judge yours, I believe it was you who targeted me personally which is a big no no. Hate the post, not the poster. For future reference, keep it formal and don't draw assumptions or conclusions of others whom you have never met.

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

EDIT: My (non-)understanding is the same for me as my (subjective) experience. Thus, there is no need to take what I say as anything more than personal opinion. Just wanted to stress that.

Ditto.

TiCkEr

[TiCkEr]

Originally Posted by CosmicSerpent

Maybe McCain, but do you feel that way about Obama? I don't see how any of his policies disregard the constitution.

Ron Paul FTW! (ps. I'm canadian eh.. just love politics for some reason)

TiCkEr