Will Bush be the NAU 'president' in 2012?

[tea.mochi]

I suppose I could say he is maleovent.. or negligent, or both.
Either way I know I have beliefs that wouldn't fly with 99% of the people on this thread, so I can't honestly say what I think about Bush without people calling me crazy.

But I guess we agree on many parts, as far as political correctness is concerned.

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by teamochi

Either way I know I have beliefs that wouldn't fly with 99% of the people on this thread, so I can't honestly say what I think about Bush without people calling me crazy.

Go ahead.... I promise not to call you crazy.
(But I don't promise not to disagree.)

[pavlakos]

Originally Posted by teamochi

I would say just about every decision that HAS been made. The removal or Habeus Corpus (sp) the removal of our privacy, the terrorist list that most Americans are actually on, Illegal wars, a national ID card, the possible "unification" of north America... a war with Iran that NOONE is excited(in the literal sense, not the positive sense.) or upset about. All these things could have been vetoed or revisited, and yet he hasn't done any of it.

Now the "9/11 changed everything" bullshit aside, he should have read these things and actually wondered how this would affect the American people, and I must say I am disgusted that it was thought that we would gladly hand over out rights and privacy because of an attack we were warned about and didn't heed.

This isn't him taking on a job he couldn't handle, this is him IGNORING plenty of warnings and then using (yes, using) the fear this created to make MORE bad decisions. He could have been going "oh shit what do I do now?" the whole time letting the 9/11 hype control his decision making, but then that doesn't help his case at all and actually makes it look worse.
He could have turned this over to someone else if he felt it wasn't working out, that would have been honorable, but we've had to suffer 8 years of bullshit because the president thought that (what was it?) 13 countries were just playing a prank when they were telling us we'd be attacked... and I'm just saying that cause that was the event that catapulted us into the bullshit we're in.


Sorry, but I honestly don't see how this isn't defending him, but aside from that (which you're not even a good example cause I honestly feel like I don't know where you stand on anything besides obama lol), I've seen TONS of people defend him, have you missed all the Bush groupies who still worship him???
And I don't see how my saying he is just a bad president who has not thought one bit about the constitution OR the American people is defending him.

If you look at all of the things that have happened throughout the years, all the people who have entered and left the offices and the things that happened, the things that were said and such, I think its naive to think that there wasn't something planned going on. I'm not saying "there were no planes!!11" and I'm not saying "Bush did it all!", but I am saying that "Bush needs to think about the American people for once" and "He knew about 9/11".

On a side note, I realize that much of the bad shit has seemingly happened with Cheney, and I realize this, but I would think that Bush wouldn't let that warmonger push him around when it comes to decision making, and makes me respect Bush less.

My post wasn't an attack on you personally, but the way your post was phrased made me think about people with that mentality. Its generally how I post and most people can't see that, which makes sense I guess.

lol, did it ever occur to anyone that bush is only getting what he wants? please, its not coincidence he didnt take the 13 countries warning him seriously.
did it ever occur to anyone that bush and his administration have no intention or interest in the welfare of america, but rather there own agenda? obviously everyone thinks hes this dumbshit, and underestimate him. what if he comes off stupid because nothing he says is true? because every time hes asked a question he has to think of a good lie. maybe hes not so 'dumb' just a bad liar.

id also like to point out that it would be completely legal for bush to cancel elections in the event of a 'terrorist' attack. and how fortunate that 'terrorist' attack would be for him. he could then stay in power, lead the country to death in war, introduce the NAU, and help shape the next generation of sheep only to lead them into the fires of the NWO police state. and of course once the NAU is in place the constitution will be obsolete and he can stay until he feels like retiring or until someone finally assassinates him. come on, thats alot of mistakes. it seems to work much like the domino effect...i like the parallels between V for Vendetta and real world

[CosmicSerpent]

pavlakos, do you believe that the Bush administration planned 9/11? Or that it was in any way a government conspiracy?

[pavlakos]

do you believe that it was coincidence that 13 countrys informed bush of the attack?

do you believe that it was coincedence that the airforce usually takes 10 minutes to respond to emergency situations and it took over an hour to even notice in this state of emergency?

do you believe that it was coincidence that multiple explosions were heard by the janitor going off in the basement near the foundation only a few minutes before the tower was hit?

do you believe that it was coincidence that after such an attack many liberties were taken away from the people, via patriot act, further preparing the country for the NWO?

do you believe that it was coincidence that osama bin ladens father (or was it brother?) was having breakfast with mr. bush senior in washington on the very morning of the attacks?

do you believe it was coincidence that after the attack, america got its chance to make more money off oil to pay off some debt?

do you believe it was coincidence that after america entered afghanistan(the leading producer of opium), the distribution of opium globally escalated almost 60%?

i hope that answered your question as to what i believe. i also believe that to believe otherwise is either blind patriotism or denial.

[CosmicSerpent]

Okay, thanks for responding. That was just my first question. Here's my next one.... this may get a bit long, but I ask that if you expect me to believe what you'd just said, then you consider it.

Obviously if Bush planned 9/11, it took a massive effort to pull it off the way he did. Months if not years of preparation, involvement and cooperation with numerous federal and state agencies, an entire team of experts and officials to oversee the technicalities involved, millions of dollars to finance the entire operation, and a very long list of extended resources. There's also the fact that no one who was in on it has come forward and admitted any involvement whatsoever.... meaning the government has either killed anyone who might leak information, or they've brainwashed them, or somehow managed to keep the testimony from coming out. Either way, like I said before, there was a massive effort involved to deceive the American public. We can agree on this much, correct?

Okay, so if all of this is true.... the government went to all the trouble to plan, organize, and actually carry this whole operation out, then what makes you think they wouldn't be able to stop their secret from being exposed? They put so much effort into it already, don't you think they might be able to take control of these Zeitgeist, Endgame, and Loose Change documentaries before they ever became widespread? Don't you think they would have taken every precaution and covered up anything that might reveal the truth? After all they've invested already, it would be stupid and careless for them not to.... it would defeat the entire point of even trying to stage an attack.

These theories rely on little more than anecdotal evidence, information taken out of context, and smooth delivery in order to convince people of something that they're too naive to do their own research about. It's ironic really, that people are willing to believe these claims without a shred of doubt, without thinking that it may be the conspiracy theory that is actually the deception.

Allow me to go through your arguments one by one:

Originally Posted by pavlakos

do you believe that it was coincidence that 13 countrys informed bush of the attack?

I believe it alludes to the fact that he was negligent and overestimated our nation's security, not that he was somehow involved in it.

do you believe that it was coincedence that the airforce usually takes 10 minutes to respond to emergency situations and it took over an hour to even notice in this state of emergency?

I believe that our nation has never previously had the experience of multiple commercial jumbo jets being hijacked at the same time and intentionally flown into skyscrapers, and was therefore in no way prepared to respond to such an attack. It was unexpected and that's why it was so successful... maybe if Bush and his administration had responded to the warnings, the military would have been better prepared. But hindsight is 20/20, now isn't it?

do you believe that it was coincidence that multiple explosions were heard by the janitor going off in the basement near the foundation only a few minutes before the tower was hit?

I believe it is an attempt by some individuals for attention and money, or maybe they're just bitter and have convinced themselves that they heard something. There are a number of possible explanations.

But how would explosions in the basement near the foundation cause the towers to collapse from the top down? We've all seen the videos... the towers start toppling right around where the planes hit and the top of the building falls down, crushing the floors in a pancake effect.

We also must take into account the fact that the janitor who supposedly heard these explosions, William Rodriguez, also claims that he saw Mohald Alshehri, an alleged hijacker of Flight 175, in the World Trade Center in June of 2001. Assuming Rodriguez didn't know Alshehri, this would be a remarkable feat of memory: viewing mug shots of the alleged hijackers and recognizing one as being someone he saw some three months earlier among the thousands of strangers he must have seen in the course of his work. Kind of makes you question his credibility doesn't it?

do you believe that it was coincidence that after such an attack many liberties were taken away from the people, via patriot act, further preparing the country for the NWO?

I believe Bush got scared and defensive when 9/11 happened. He made a drastic choice, thinking that the Patriot Act would help the government catch terrorists inside the United States. I agree it is an invasion of privacy and against the constitution, but it doesn't suggest anything other than lack of good judgment of Bush's part.

do you believe that it was coincidence that osama bin ladens father (or was it brother?) was having breakfast with mr. bush senior in washington on the very morning of the attacks?

I believe that it was an intentional twisting of the truth, not a coincidence. The Carlyle Group is a large private-equity investment firm, closely associated with officials of the Bush and Reagan administrations, and has considerable ties to Saudi oil money, including ties to the bin Laden family. The morning of September 11th, it was holding its annual investor conference at the Ritz Carlton hotel in Washington, DC. Among the guests of honor was investor Shafig bin Laden, brother of Osama bin Laden. Former President George H. W. Bush, who makes speeches on behalf of the Carlyle Group and is also senior adviser to its Asian Partners fund, attended the conference the previous day, but was NOT there on September 11th. Immediately following 9/11, the group ended its relationship with the bin Laden family.

Besides that, do you think he would be dumb enough to meet with the brother of his scapegoat the morning of the attack? No, he'd be far away making it appear as if the two had no connection.

do you believe it was coincidence that after the attack, america got its chance to make more money off oil to pay off some debt?

What are you talking about? Our national debt is higher than it has ever been. The current total is well over 9.5 trillion dollars, and it's getting higher by the second. If Bush wanted to pay off some debt, fighting a war was not the way to do it. You obviously don't understand fiscal policy very well.

do you believe it was coincidence that after america entered afghanistan(the leading producer of opium), the distribution of opium globally escalated almost 60%?

I believe it has nothing to do with 9/11.... show me how George W. Bush is making money off of opium.

i hope that answered your question as to what i believe. i also believe that to believe otherwise is either blind patriotism or denial.

I also believe that you are the one in denial of the truth, but whatever. At least I understand why I believe what I believe.

[Maitereya]

i think bush was a puppet and the master told him he could also be a master if he played the puppet role for a little bit.

simplifying the whole situation like that makes me happy.

[tea.mochi]

Okay, so if all of this is true.... the government went to all the trouble to plan, organize, and actually carry this whole operation out, then what makes you think they wouldn't be able to stop their secret from being exposed? They put so much effort into it already, don't you think they might be able to take control of these Zeitgeist, Endgame, and Loose Change documentaries before they ever became widespread? Don't you think they would have taken every precaution and covered up anything that might reveal the truth? After all they've invested already, it would be stupid and careless for them not to.... it would defeat the entire point of even trying to stage an attack.

Okay, so lets say.... for analogy sake that we're in a playground.
My friends and I stage an attack on our friends and the playground and some other kids figure it out and tell all the other kids... just how suspicious to all the clueless kids would it look if the ones who figured it out were being beat up or sent to the principal's office for knowing this?? I would say UBER suspicious.
Bush said right after 9/11 "We will not tolerate consipracy theorists" making them into the bad guys... So the government took care of the theorists in that way, making them out to be crazy lunatics because they can piece together information and do research.
If suddenly the guy from loose change and zeitgeist disappeared, I would say MUCH suspicion would be shown. I mean... seriously you think that them taking out every consipracy theorist is NOT suspicious?

[Razzy]

Here's how I imagine it happening.

Bush isn't going to be the one to take control, although in reality, it's all just puppetering. McCain will win the election by a close margin, as the democrats "struggle" to find a single candidate. Look at how the mainstream media describes the dems now, and in ~7 months, you'll be seeing these same ignorant tricks of the hand explaining how they lost. With all the work the Bush administration has done, it would be too obvious an action for them to take control themselves. I imagine they'll still be in the background. McCain is already hinting at an infinite stay in Iraq. Iran is next, from there, into Europe. However, Europe will be taken over through diplomatic means when we converge our moneys into a singular denomination. It won't be so much a take over as a consolidation. The dollar is fucked. If you haven't heard it yet, search for Ron Paul giving statements on how the Fed. Reserve discontinued the M3 in 2006. It's a good explanation of how we're in the mess we're in now. The new American dollar will be adopted. Walls will be built around our borders, patroled as well, while the super highway finishes construction. This bloodline will deliver enemies of the state to and from concentration camps to and from Mex and Can with people being trapped in the middle of this country, where anything can be built in secrecy. Idk much about this "superhighway", but to me the most logical place to put it would be in the center, like a vein.

The North American Union will be seen as not only easy, but the most logical solution, as Amerika has already been intentionally fucked over due to the intentions of evil men. From then, people will be shut up (see HR 1955) legally, monitored constantly, and their children brainwashed. It's all just a game of dominos at this point. The social security system will be revamped, and a new ID card administered for tracking and control over the people using digital means. Just imagine if a national ID card replaced the SS, and how expansive it's powers would be. Someone along the line will suggest in congress that they shouldn't even consider paper money anymore, and the fiat system will never see past the digital entity that is so easily manipulated. From there, chips, barcodes, Nazi inspired tactics and so forth (although we've already seen the first of it).

The medical establishment, food, water, all of it will be controlled by new agencies created with the NAU. This new government will explain that it's to compensate for the numbers of the combo. People will be poisoned, made stupid and killed, indirectly and by their own gluttany.

Now, the rest is pretty self explanitory for anyone having read 1984, and we're really not that far off anymore. The digital conversion of television would allow for unthinkable tracking techniques on what we're watching. Cell phone companies being unaccountable for letting the government track it's customers. The internet becoming a hub for agents of the man. It will all be tracked, banned and killed off.

[/rant]

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by teamochi

If suddenly the guy from loose change and zeitgeist disappeared, I would say MUCH suspicion would be shown. I mean... seriously you think that them taking out every consipracy theorist is NOT suspicious?

My point is that if the government had the power and desire to do the whole thing in the first place, they would probably have no problem taking out these videos way before everyone knew about them, or at least cover their tracks well enough that the videos would have never existed at all. Yes, it would be very suspicious if SUDDENLY these conspiracy theorists all disappeared, but it wouldn't be suspicious if no one knew of their existence to begin with.

But all that aside, the arguments and connections that these theories make are weak. People have problems with the way the buildings fell even though 9/11 was the only time in history when commercial jets have been intentionally flown into skyscrapers. So how can anyone say with any accuracy how they should have fallen? That's just one example, but see my above post for several more. 99% of the evidence for a planned attack is anecdotal and open to interpretation. It's just that a few people have been able to present this information with such great persuasion, that people are believing it without question. If you can give me one piece of solid proof that 9/11 was staged, I'll believe it. But I've seen these videos and read up on all the theories, and so far I have found nothing conclusive.

Not only did the arguments pavlakos posted require a huge leap of faith, they were also contradictory...

Thirteen countries informed Bush of the attack, right? This suggests that he didn't directly plan it, but had knowledge of it and let it happen. Otherwise how exactly would foreign governments have knowledge of a top secret U.S. conspiracy when even the American people didn't have a clue?

He also claims that there were explosions in the basement of the WTC before the plane hit. This suggests that the hijacked planes and terrorist plot were merely a coverup, and the real force that brought the buildings down were explosive devices planted to create a controlled demolition.

So already with these two arguments, we have two entirely different scenarios about how the government may have been involved. But only one of them can be right... either they knew about and intentionally ignored al-Quada's plans, or they planted explosives themselves and the terrorist plot was a decoy. It can't be both, so one of these scenarios is not entirely correct.

He also claims that bin Laden's brother was personally having breakfast with Bush Sr. the morning of the attacks. As I said previously, this isn't exactly true. The two were involved with the same investment firm and attended the same conference, but were never in the same room together and did not literally meet. But besides that, do you think Bush would be stupid enough to do business with the brother of his scapegoat the morning of the attack? No, it doesn't make any sense. The event we're talking about was public, well known, and happened annually. It was bound to be covered by the media, so why would they take the risk? The plans are supposed to be secret, remember?

Obviously this account has been taken out of context, and the details have been twisted to better fit the conspiracy. Just like virtually all of the other supposed evidence. It's really sad that people believe they're somehow thinking for themselves when they let a substandard documentary convince them of something this important. We all know our current administration is a total fuck up, so I guess people are willing to forget about logic and reason in exchange for an illegitimate reason to point their fingers. Just open your mind a little bit, do some independent research, and you'll see that it isn't nearly as clear cut as these propaganda videos make it out to be. Anything can be misconstrued and used to mislead people if you try hard enough.

[tea.mochi]

Well, I've (thankfully) not claimed that the government planned all of it. There are many loose ends, but I can't accept that a steel building fell because of a plane and a starved fire. Even while it was happening, on the morning of 9/11 I knew it couldn't have happened the way they said, and I couldn't believe people were buying into it. I was seriously wondering where the intelligence had gone, what building "pancakes" onto itself at freefall speed?
I mean... You really believe that logic? You seriously believe that 100 some odd floors pancaked onto themselves at freefall speed after only an hour or so of a starved fire caused by a plane? If so then what about that steel building in Madrid? What about the Empire State Building?
Buildings have burned much longer and much more intensely and not fallen. Buildings have had planes flown into them and not fallen, and these buildings were much smaller AND steel.

How would foreign governments have knowledge of a secret plan of attack from BinLaden if noone was supposed to know until the day of?
Seeing people in hospitals with injuries from the bombs that went off in the basement is proof enough, you can't tell me that the planes fire magically ended up there before the plane hit right?

But this is why I don't discuss what I believe when it comes to the government and 9/11, cause people are so brainwashed by the media and their 'rice-for-speeches' politicians that the fact that our freedoms, rights, our bodily integrity and our suffering means nothing to these people... and they would sacrifice 3,000+ of us in an instant if it means more control, more money and domination. And these facts alone make me ashamed to be an American... cause I know that this is how much of the world sees us, and I hate to be associated with that kind of sheep mentality...
Unfortunately there aren't many places to run away to anymore...

And I'm going to make sure thats the last of this topic I discuss, cause if I were to go further you guys would hate me and demand my banning.
Ciao.

[CosmicSerpent]

It's cool... I just hope one day in the future an independent, non-biased organization of top experts comes along and re-examines all of the evidence from a completely objective point of view. Then all the conspiracy sheep will realize how naive and brainwashed they were.

I could again go through all of the points you just brought up... the nature of the buildings falling for example, and present empirical evidence and statistical data that there was absolutely no cover-up involved. But of course you would remain blind, and you said that you don't want to discuss it anymore anyway.

But let me say this: If anyone can show me ANY SOURCE WHATSOEVER that documents a commercial jumbo jet intentionally being flown into a 100+ story skyscraper at nearly 500 mph with 10,000 gallons of jet fuel, and not causing the building to collapse, be my guest. I would certainly be interested to see this account.

At least most of us can agree on one thing, conspiracy or not... the Bush administration has fucked this country up.

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by CosmicSerpent

It's cool... I just hope one day in the future an independent, non-biased organization of top experts comes along and re-examines all of the evidence from a completely objective point of view. Then all the conspiracy sheep will realize how naive and brainwashed they were.

I could again go through all of the points you just brought up... the nature of the buildings falling for example, and present empirical evidence and statistical data that there was absolutely no cover-up involved. But of course you would remain blind, and you said that you don't want to discuss it anymore anyway.

But let me say this: If anyone can show me ANY SOURCE WHATSOEVER that documents a commercial jumbo jet intentionally being flown into a 100+ story skyscraper at nearly 500 mph with 10,000 gallons of jet fuel, and not causing the building to collapse, be my guest. I would certainly be interested to see this account.

At least most of us can agree on one thing, conspiracy or not... the Bush administration has fucked this country up.

Sheep, naive and brainwashed... lol Well, I'm sure those views don't exist as extremes just to put in perspective the idea that things really aren't as bad as they could be. Conspiracy theories exist for those who believe it can't get any worse. I see value in them.

[CosmicSerpent]

If anyone feels like opening their mind up to explanations that don't require such stretching of the truth, I invite you to visit these links:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=1

http://www.debunking911.com/

http://www.jod911.com/

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....i?u=911_morons

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...531304,00.html

[chivo]

Your argument is flawed because it is based on a lie. I sympathize with you because micheal moor really did give a convincing argument but for that to have even been remotely possible, there would've had to have been a decent amount of people to know. And to keep them all quiet and continuing in this little game is improbable. It would be way to difficult.