Christianity has been debunked once and for all

[scoobydooby67]

Originally Posted by negligent

"2 hands at work can accomplish more in a day than 1000 hands clasped in prayer"

wow.

awesome.

whose quote is that?

[negligent]

honestly, i think its someone elses, but i thought it up the one day when me n my friends were discussing how christianity is just mind control for the masses before i read the quote

i was like "dude, people pray all the time and then when they finally work themselves n get it done, they credit god for what they've accomplished, if people would just work towards there goals instead of praying to god to do it for them they would accomplish so much more"

and then i just kinda summed it all up into 1 sentence for future arguments n made it into "2 hands working can do more than 1000 hands praying" but then i read the quote i posted somewhere n started using it instead

[citizen abuse]

Originally Posted by weedseed

Wow! Sorry bud, but I cant even give you an 'A' for effort on that. It's the same ole stuff that you see time and time again.

I couldn't even finish it. The rough draft was probably marked in crayon. I'm definitely not going to waste my time breaking all of that down. The entire paper (atleast what I read) is self-defeating.

There aren't any facts supporting the "no god" theory anywhere in that whole mess. It's all jibber-jabber.

Everyone on this planet is religious (yeah, religious). You cannot escape it. And almost everyone is convinced that their religion is the right one.

Whoever wrote that has a serious lack of historical knowledge--Has no clue as to what it means to be a Christian--And probably couldn't tell you up from down (not because they oppose my beliefs but because their argument ...well...it blows.).

Sorry. I'm at work so the time I have to devote to this is at a minimum (not that I'd give it much either way..but yeah...).

I suggest you read it over because you obviously missed quite a bit the first time around. First, the piece doesn't try to debunk the concept of God. It just addresses claims that the Christians make about their god. It 's also nothing more than a collection of indisputable facts:

Fact: Everything we know about Jesus is hearsay
Fact: Jesus didn't exhibit any knowledge of the natural world
Fact: Hindis, Muslims and Budhists don't believe Jesus was the son of God
Fact: The Christian god would have to cast judgment on people at the rate of almost two people per second
Fact: The Christian god cannot make himself visible in the here and now, in realtime, for everyone's eyes to see

And on and on ...

From my vantage point, you missed everything. Yeh, you should really give a reread.

By the way, what's your religious affiliation so we know just exactly where it is you're coming from?

[negligent]

^ why cant you just accept the fact that not everyone thinks this article is as groundbreaking as you do

you seem very close minded, and your also looking at god as if he is a human being, as in he cant cast judgement at 2 people per second, if he's real, he created a fucking universe and ecosystem and living organisms, i'd like to see you do that, i'm sure he can figure out a way to cast judgement on people at 2 per second n still have time for his morning coffee

and no one ever said Jesus was put on earth to teach the people about the world, is it documented in the bible anywhere that anyone even asked him about nature?? no, no one asked him, so therfor he didnt answer those questions, ever think of that?

i'm sorry to keep arguing, but the way your looking at this is way wrong, ur looking at it like "well if he was then why didnt he"

and what if arguments dont hold any credibility to me, i like to go by what did

edit: n i dont think Jesus was the son of god, more of a messenger, since thats basically what he did, relayed messages from god to the people, why do you think in the bible he talks to god and asks him questions, its because Jesus WAS NOT GOD!

[citizen abuse]

It's become apparent to me that some people who read the piece don't have the intellectual capacity to understand why it's significant to point out that Jesus didn't demonstrate any knowledge of the natural world. This isn't going to do any good, but here's why:

As the piece pointed out, everything we know about Jesus Christ is hearsay. Obviously, for people who have very pathetically low IQ's, that's enough. Those people have a very, very low standard of proof - as would be expected with people who have very pathetically low IQ's.

However, people who have far, far superior IQ's need something more than hearsay. Those people will say, "What else have you got? Hearsay isn't enough for us." Those people believe that if Jesus Christ was really the son of the being that created the universe there would definitely be more than hearsay. A good place to look would be for knowledge that the son of the being who created the universe would reasonably be expected to have. Jesus did not exhibit any of that knowledge, whether it was his purpose to or not. He still should have made casual or off-the-cuff references.

Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

I have a plea to make. It isn't going to do any good but I'll make it anyway. Would the hard-core, lapdog Christians and/or the extremely IQ challenged individuals who have responded to this thread please refrain from making anymore posts to this thread? All you people are doing is making very heavily biased or very pathetically ignorant posts and just muddying up what would otherwise be a mature and intelligent discussion. The piece that I directed people to goes well above and beyond the intellectual capacity that you people have to comprehend it. If you don't have the intellectual capacity to understand it, you shouldn't be participating in this discussion.

Whoa, there's no need to attack anyone with the "IQ challenged" comments and such. It's just not welcome here. *RMJL

[scoobydooby67]

^^ the article is not that hard to understand.

it could have been written by a 7th grader, there's nothing that the average reader cant follow.

Originally Posted by citizen abuse

I have a plea to make. It isn't going to do any good but I'll make it anyway. Would the hard-core, lapdog Christians and/or the extremely IQ challenged individuals who have responded to this thread please refrain from making anymore posts to this thread? All you people are doing is making very heavily biased or very pathetically ignorant posts and just muddying up what would otherwise be a mature and intelligent discussion. The piece that I directed people to goes well above and beyond the intellectual capacity that you people have to comprehend it. If you don't have the intellectual capacity to understand it, you shouldn't be participating in this discussion.

and you dont think youre opinion is heavily biased? right.

if you bring up a radical perspective such as this, youre gonna get varying opinions.

[primetime21335]

Originally Posted by negligent

i never said that i believe my religion is right and everyone elses is wrong, i even stated in one of my previous posts in this thread that it is impossible to know who is right and thinking that your right by being atheist is no more honorable than being christian and thinking your right

and by all of us are gods i guess i didnt quite give a good enough explanation.. its not in an egotistical way that i meant to say it.. it basically is like this.. christians believe that god determines everything that happens to them, but as a satanist i believe that we control all of our own outcomes, therfor making us "god" (the one that controls our life)

get it?

"2 hands at work can accomplish more in a day than 1000 hands clasped in prayer"

i wanna get that tat'd somewhere

edit:



ok i proved that i'm not a christian and i am indeed a satanist, so you can continue responding now

Good explanation and I really like the quote I bolded. Still though, do you warship the devil? What about you is exactly satan like? Just because you think we control our own fate, what about that makes the devil anymore real than or warshippable than a "good" god? I'm genuinely interested. You could even start a new thread if you'd like to share with others.

[Zylark]

This is basically a friendly tip to Citizen Abuse.

Never ever assume that believers are stupid for not thinking as you do. Never. Intelligence got little to do with faith or the lack thereof. What more is, you come off as condescending, and in the end not someone who is serious in debates, but childish.

Now don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong in showing the stupidity of others reasoning, but first you need to catch them in the act. Red handed or hot headed, doesn't matter. Do not make gross generalizations based on assumptions and double standards. Two traits of thinking, or rather non-thinking, I at least try to avoid. And that I happily point out when I catch it. (I might cruise by this board drunk and/or high now and again, so my standards drop and I let much just flow by not caring in my state of intoxicated bliss )

Fact is, many believers are quite intelligent. More than you and me. A more fruitfull approach would be zeroing in on conditioning, confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. The three C's of belief.

In short, point out flaws in others reasoning, don't give them ammunition by flawing in yours.

[citizen abuse]

Originally Posted by Zylark

This is basically a friendly tip to Citizen Abuse.

Never ever assume that believers are stupid for not thinking as you do. Never. Intelligence got little to do with faith or the lack thereof. What more is, you come off as condescending, and in the end not someone who is serious in debates, but childish.

Now don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong in showing the stupidity of others reasoning, but first you need to catch them in the act. Red handed or hot headed, doesn't matter. Do not make gross generalizations based on assumptions and double standards. Two traits of thinking, or rather non-thinking, I at least try to avoid. And that I happily point out when I catch it. (I might cruise by this board drunk and/or high now and again, so my standards drop and I let much just flow by not caring in my state of intoxicated bliss )

Fact is, many believers are quite intelligent. More than you and me. A more fruitfull approach would be zeroing in on conditioning, confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. The three C's of belief.

In short, point out flaws in others reasoning, don't give them ammunition by flawing in yours.

Zylark, thanks for this well-intentioned advice. I will take it under advisement. I've just become frustrated because there's obviously individuals who are posting to this thread who are masquerading as nonbelievers of one kind or another to make it look like they're impartial when in fact they're really Christians who are just pissed off because they don't like what people are saying about their religion. Some of these individuals even posted subsequent threads confirming what I'm saying.

Proof of what I'm talking about lies in the fact that some of these pretenders are clearly bent out of shape because the point was made that Jesus didn't demonstrate any knowledge of the natural world. Why would someone who's really a true nonbeliever even care? I mean, if someone is really a true nonbeliever why would they care if someone merely pointed out that Jesus didn't demonstrate any knowledge of the natural world? All it is is a simple fact. That would be identical to someone getting all bent out of shape because someone pointed out that the sky was blue. I mean, why care?

I intend take your advice and point out a gigantic flaw in the reasoning that these people are using to try to discount the point about Jesus not knowing anything about the natural world. But that's going to have to wait until next time.

[Zylark]

What you are describing is cognitive dissonance. We all do it, and we cannot help it, until we actually allow ourselves to try and be objective. Sometimes it is hard, very hard.

Now, one cannot fault anyone for not wanting to put their own beliefs under the microscope. Especially knowing what they will find when using objective standards.

At best we can push them towards wanting to look through the lens, and let them discover by them selves. And that is done by being honest and straightforward. Ask questions, but never ask questions you do not know the answer to

I'm guessing most us non-believers got to non-belief by thinking for ourselves. Then that must be what we encourage believers to do. Thinking for themselves, not regurgutating dogma.

[negligent]

haha, my IQ is 133 bud

and once again, SATANISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEVIL!!

its called satanism, because satan is the opposite of god/christ, and what christians believe to be sins, satanists believe to be natural urges that are to be indulged in

and once again just for good measure since u refuse to argue any of the points i make and just question my faith and IQ, signs that you are extremely misinformed on what your trying to argue, i'll say this again in terms that even a child could understand

Jesus was not god

jesus was a man, god understands the natural world and universe, man does not

jesus spoke with god, which could mean one of 2 things, he had some sort of mental illness, or he had psychic ability to talk to such a being if indeed god does exist

having these psychic abilities would also explain how he was able to heal people, if this is indeed true

and not everything about jesus is hearsay, i've been watching shit about Jesus the past couple days on discovery, national geographic, and history channels, all of which are based on scientific facts, none of the shows talked about christianity, only jesus as the man that he was in the past

and if u'd like to be technical, unless the person in history wrote an autobiography, all of history is "hearsay" by what others wrote of it

now, could you please reply to these above statements with something more than "JESUS DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THE NATURAL WORLD! WAAAHH I'M RIGHT!"
and that god would have to judge people at 2 per second, because once you get to that part, your basically admitting that there is a heaven for people to be judged in, and heaven would not have ANY of the same characteristics such as time and physics like earth has

can people obtain wings and fly like angels on earth? no, so obviously time and space and physics do not apply to heaven, since you have no clue as to what is possible in heaven, making this argument is useless

ever heard of "your life flashing before your eyes" when people have near death experiences?? thats your whole life in the snap of the fingers, which is indeed, less than a second, i can snap my fingers 3-4 times within 1 second

and since god would be judging you, i'd imagine he could see your life in the snap of the fingers and then in another snap decide whether you go to heaven or hell

so if you could please debate with me and try to make a decent argument, i'd enjoy it cuz i like a good debate, i dont like childish insults on my intelligence, when it is indeed most likely at least 30 points higher than your IQ, not sure what the average IQ score is, but i know its lower than 133 homes.

[Zylark]

Originally Posted by negligent

haha, my IQ is 133 bud

Somehow I doubt it. Several reasons.

First, anyone smart, will not claim they are smart. They will show it.

Secondly, they will not claim to be smart by some arbitrary standard.

Third, even if intoxicated enough to break one and two, they'd not be stupid enough to make a claim like that without actual evidence in the form of some diploma or mensa membership card. But then we're moving from smart to silly arrogance.

And fourth through oblivion, calling one self satanist is about the least smart anyone in the history of smartness could possibly do. Good luck with that by the way.

You got your head mostly pointing in the right direction. Now try to be a bit less antagonistic and misanthropic.

[scoobydooby67]

Originally Posted by negligent

haha, my IQ is 133 bud.

Originally Posted by Zylark

they'd not be stupid enough to make a claim like that without actual evidence in the form of some diploma or mensa membership card.

yea mensa starts at 132 man.

show us a pic of a mensa accolade.

its a completely free process that actually gives you sweet random benefits that you should sign up for if you are truly that intelligent.

[citizen abuse]

Based on great advice I received from Zylark, I decided to tone down some of my responses to various posts made to this thread by others. From now on, I'm adopting a standard response to anyone who implies or suggests that the piece I directed people to is insignificant, irrelevant, or not ground-breaking. That response will be as follows:

If the piece is so insignificant, irrelevant, or not ground-breaking, then why are the Christians so bent out of shape over it? From my vantage point, those people are squirming like a toad. Gee, I wonder why? You don't suppose it's because the piece does exactly what the title says it does, do you?

[the roach]