Creating a Constitution

[bkadoctaj]

I thought it might be fun to see if we could create a virtual country and constitution in S+P. What do you all think? If enough people are interested, we should try to figure out a semi-formal method for doing this... Any ideas?

By the way, I think it would be really great since we have so many members in the S+P section who care about exact wording.

[weedseed]

..one country under God, indivi...

[AlphaQ]

There may be many conflicting opinions, as in the creation of any constitution.

Having said that, here are my thoughts:

The government will provide defense to its citizen, for both foreign and domestic issues.

Domestically, the only illegal activities are those that cause harm to others. This includes rape, murder, theft, dui, and many other issues. Merely being offended that others participate in activities that you disagree with but they do not harm you or others is not grounds for something being illegal.

The people shall elect peers to enforce and handle any new laws that are deemed necessary. There must also be a balance of power among several groups within the government.




Basically I would take the U.S government and apply a general libertarian method to it. I would also want a protected environment and scientific research funding but a general elimination of most federal programs. Let local groups allocate resources and money as they deem fit, provided it falls within the general federal constitution.

[HighGrowMan]

An interesting proposition.

Maybe we should start by developing an outline, or section headings?

Once we have our section headings it would speed things along.

What is the purpose of the GC constitution?

[mrblonde77]

Originally Posted by AlphaQ

Domestically, the only illegal activities are those that cause harm to others. This includes rape, murder, theft, dui, and many other issues.

DUI doesn't hurt anyone. it only does if the person driving crashes. But now on drugs in general, you're not hurting anyone, but it's still possible to freak out on coke and go kill someone. It's possible but doesn't happen. Then taking it a step further, guns don't kill people by nature. They only do if someone points and shoots it at someone. So do you make drugs illegal? Do you make guns illegal? Just saying you've contradicted yourself and this is where it gets sticky and where the "fine line" is....

[blazedandcrazed]

one law: live by the sword, die by the sword

[cspcdawg]

One were the people are the goverment, when you give government to much power, it lead to corruption, for example look at the US govnt.

[Eru_iluvatar]

Originally Posted by AlphaQ

Basically I would take the U.S government and apply a general libertarian method to it..

I agree

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by weedseed

..one country under God, indivi...

What does God specifically have to do with the country? Is religion separate from the state in this country?

Originally Posted by AlphaQ

There may be many conflicting opinions, as in the creation of any constitution.

Having said that, here are my thoughts:

The government will provide defense to its citizen, for both foreign and domestic issues.

Domestically, the only illegal activities are those that cause harm to others. This includes rape, murder, theft, dui, and many other issues. Merely being offended that others participate in activities that you disagree with but they do not harm you or others is not grounds for something being illegal.

The people shall elect peers to enforce and handle any new laws that are deemed necessary. There must also be a balance of power among several groups within the government.




Basically I would take the U.S government and apply a general libertarian method to it. I would also want a protected environment and scientific research funding but a general elimination of most federal programs. Let local groups allocate resources and money as they deem fit, provided it falls within the general federal constitution.

How is the defense to be provided for? With what funds? What is the nature of defense in the virtual world? You mentioned foreign and domestic issues... will this government be able to interact with other virtual governments? Should it be essentially a federal system with each member of the nation representing himself as a separate state within the nation with its own laws? So you say there should be no penalty for tax evasion, copyright infringement (or is there copyright protection in this country, even?), or general drug use? No other illegalities? How are the elections done? Is it a proportional representation or single-member district system? As for science and environmental concerns, why should a libertarian government care about these? How could a libertarian justify spending in these areas, but not in others?

Originally Posted by HighGrowMan

An interesting proposition.

Maybe we should start by developing an outline, or section headings?

Once we have our section headings it would speed things along.

What is the purpose of the GC constitution?

I agree with the outline and section headings... perhaps we should do a brainstorm. WHAT ARE ALL OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS WE'LL NEED TO DISCUSS? PLEASE POST IDEAS!! Even if you don't have any specific ideas for the constitution, you can contribute questions, concerns, suggestions, corrections, etc.

Originally Posted by mrblonde77

DUI doesn't hurt anyone. it only does if the person driving crashes. But now on drugs in general, you're not hurting anyone, but it's still possible to freak out on coke and go kill someone. It's possible but doesn't happen. Then taking it a step further, guns don't kill people by nature. They only do if someone points and shoots it at someone. So do you make drugs illegal? Do you make guns illegal? Just saying you've contradicted yourself and this is where it gets sticky and where the "fine line" is....

The idea of the constitution would probably not be to draw the "fine lines", but rather to formulate an idealized, functioning government that represents the common interests of the Grasscity S+P crew. :P But if you think some "fine-line" issues should be determined straight away, perhaps we could add them as amendments through the First National Assembly/Congress. Speaking of amendments, how easy should they be to make?

Originally Posted by blazedandcrazed

one law: live by the sword, die by the sword

Doubtful... :P

Originally Posted by cspcdawg

One were the people are the goverment, when you give government to much power, it lead to corruption, for example look at the US govnt.

People are government? haha So maybe we should make the constitution for the state where the legislators meet twice monthly in a common area adjacent to their prison cells, while the people tax them, pour barrels of pork on them, and then outsource them to other virtual nations? The idea of government is that a disorganized mass of people with no fundamental basis of trust exists and needs to be organized, focused, and protected from larger external threats... so how do you propose getting the people in government and keeping the government officials out? Vote each November, and anyone with more than 50% gets unelected from government? Maybe in our country you should just be born into government? haha

[AlphaQ]

Originally Posted by mrblonde77

DUI doesn't hurt anyone. it only does if the person driving crashes. But now on drugs in general, you're not hurting anyone, but it's still possible to freak out on coke and go kill someone. It's possible but doesn't happen. Then taking it a step further, guns don't kill people by nature. They only do if someone points and shoots it at someone. So do you make drugs illegal? Do you make guns illegal? Just saying you've contradicted yourself and this is where it gets sticky and where the "fine line" is....

What many people do not understand is that driving is a privilege. Just as operating other heavy machinery is a privilege. DUI often hurts many many people. Now if you want to drink and drive on your own private race track and kill yourself, go for it! But if your race track is public roads, that is unacceptable.

I have not contradicted myself at all. People take guns or drugs as excuses for their actions. If you kill someone sober, you must answer for it. If you kill someone on a drug, you must answer for it. There are no exceptions or excuses for such actions.

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

How is the defense to be provided for? With what funds? What is the nature of defense in the virtual world? You mentioned foreign and domestic issues... will this government be able to interact with other virtual governments? Should it be essentially a federal system with each member of the nation representing himself as a separate state within the nation with its own laws? So you say there should be no penalty for tax evasion, copyright infringement (or is there copyright protection in this country, even?), or general drug use? No other illegalities? How are the elections done? Is it a proportional representation or single-member district system? As for science and environmental concerns, why should a libertarian government care about these? How could a libertarian justify spending in these areas, but not in others?

Like I said, it would be similar to the current U.S. government with a more libertarian approach.

My justification for spending on environmental and scientific issues is personal. I believe the key to a successfully future is to maintain a safe and stable environment and to be on the forefront of new science. Not to mention that I am an avid naturalist.

The eventual future of the human race is too expand into space or perish. Prolonging a safe environment gives us the chance to leave the planet before we destroy it. Once again, these are personal opinions as I doubt many libertarians share the same views. I do not like to consider myself a member of a certain political party. Rather I believe in a myriad of ideas from several parties. Is that so bad to be an environmental libertarian scientist!?

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by AlphaQ

What many people do not understand is that driving is a privilege. Just as operating other heavy machinery is a privilege. DUI often hurts many many people. Now if you want to drink and drive on your own private race track and kill yourself, go for it! But if your race track is public roads, that is unacceptable.

I have not contradicted myself at all. People take guns or drugs as excuses for their actions. If you kill someone sober, you must answer for it. If you kill someone on a drug, you must answer for it. There are no exceptions or excuses for such actions.



Like I said, it would be similar to the current U.S. government with a more libertarian approach.

My justification for spending on environmental and scientific issues is personal. I believe the key to a successfully future is to maintain a safe and stable environment and to be on the forefront of new science. Not to mention that I am an avid naturalist.

The eventual future of the human race is too expand into space or perish. Prolonging a safe environment gives us the chance to leave the planet before we destroy it. Once again, these are personal opinions as I doubt many libertarians share the same views. I do not like to consider myself a member of a certain political party. Rather I believe in a myriad of ideas from several parties. Is that so bad to be an environmental libertarian scientist!?

I'm not sure I agree that driving must be a privilege. In America it seems to be, at least on main roads. Lowered expectations, possibly?

Nothing wrong with personal beliefs. A country is made up of people.

[mrblonde77]

Originally Posted by AlphaQ

What many people do not understand is that driving is a privilege. Just as operating other heavy machinery is a privilege. DUI often hurts many many people. Now if you want to drink and drive on your own private race track and kill yourself, go for it! But if your race track is public roads, that is unacceptable.

Yeah, well said.