Why religion began

[g0pher]

Humans are social animals and this socialistic behaviour requires structure in which to function. Structure implies authority to enforce the structure. We need authority because of our social natures.

This is part of the reason we look for belief in things. We need to 'see' that authority in other aspects of our environment, it helps us feel comfortable - familiar with the world around us.

Another part of the reason we have belief is down to our biology and evolution. In our distant past (and in some societies today) we, and our ancestors were hunter-gatherers. All hunter-gatherers, if successful, use pattern-recognition as their primary tool for determining if they have found a viable resource. Eat pale red berries and get sick, eat dark red berries and feel good. We then only eat the dark red berries...we have matched a pattern for success.

However, our complex social structure required a lot of our thought-processing to maintain. To be successful hunter-gatherers AND to have this social aspect we needed to evolve larger processing units. So, those early hominids with larger brains were successfully selected for. Our social structure got more and more complex as the social units grew in size due to our success and we got to the point where we developed a sense of generational continuity...we realised we had ancestors.

This was possibly the breakthrough realisation that enabled all belief to happen. Not just a sense of parentage, as most higher animals have, but a true generational sense. The social nature of the early societies also allowed for a sense of altruistic behaviour to develop towards the ill, infirm and, especially, the elderly. This led to a sense of respect/honour for the 'elders' and, eventually, to the sense of respect/honour for those who were deceased. Ancestor 'worship' began. Not true religion in the sense there was no 'god', more a polydemonic belief in the memory of those ancestors and their eventual elevation from memory to spirits.

However, at some point, our ancestors starting asking (praying) to these 'ancestor spirits' for assistance in the hunting/gathering. When these tasks were successful the ancestor spirits were thanked in recognition of the 'assistance' they provided. Another pattern match was formed. Praying to the spirits brought good hunting/gathering!

Those who were successful survived and they passed on their 'belief' in the ancestor spirits until, eventually, it became part of our evolution. Our brains had developed a 'belief engine', all because of our social nature and that we were/are pattern-recognition animals.

You can probably take from here how more complex societies developed more complex beliefs until true religion was born.

[chiefMOJOrisin]

religion began because humans at the time lacked the technology and intellectual reasoning to further understand their world.

as humans progressed....so did religion. theres really no one to say which is right or which is wrong. first there were hundreds of gods worshipped by pagans....eventually less gods were worshipped......then one day homie moses decides theres one god. then homie jesus decides hes gods son. then homie muhammed did something else i am unfamiliar with.

way back when people wanted answers to all the unexplainable things happening around them. its very easy to chalk things up to god. almost a cop out in certain ways.

its quite interesting to me that so many people (other than scientists/physicists) claim to know what happened from either the beginning of time or from before humans. the silly thing is....there were no humans capable of intelligent conversation or communicating with anyone/thing outside of their clan. there were no people like josephus to document events. so without anyone being around to actually know what went down...how can someone claim to know the deal??

[MelT]

QUOTE: its quite interesting to me that so many people (other than scientists/physicists) claim to know what happened from either the beginning of time or from before humans. the silly thing is....there were no humans capable of intelligent conversation or communicating with anyone/thing outside of their clan. there were no people like josephus to document events. so without anyone being around to actually know what went down...how can someone claim to know the deal??END

Hinduism (in fact meditation itself) began with the ingestion of entheogens, and we do have written detailed records of the development of Hinduism and its use of Soma going back at least 3,000 years before Josephus. Their oral records could well push this back another 1,000 years or so. Good, reliable historical texts have been around from around 3,500BC.

MelT

[g0pher]

And its funny sometimes man, like how passionate people can get concerning their religions, and to say- that theology and religion have been around throughout all the centuries. With Homer, the Oracles of Delphi, and ancient prophets of Apollo and Ammon.

But You sort of see it from a whole different perspective when youve lived out religion to the full , when you were at once zealous for your theology and you studied the pages through and out, but sometime later denounced those beliefs due to such and such a reason, mostly through logical thinking and relative understanding,

Its like a phylosophical journey that shapes your perspective and future outlook at it all until you finally look at it all as ... just something that is just typically us humans.. religion.

[weedseed]

Originally Posted by g0pher

Humans are social animals and this socialistic behaviour requires structure in which to function. Structure implies authority to enforce the structure. We need authority because of our social natures.

This is part of the reason we look for belief in things.

honestly thats bunk IMO...

id say its more accurate to say that we dont seek an authoritative figure. we, as humans in general, seek the power of authority for ourselves...to hold it in the palm of our own hand...this is, in the christian realm, what we call original sin....which is PRIDE.


MELT: christians also have documents of their religion long before josephus..he only dates to around 70 AD...

you arent a christian and yet you use the anno domini to count years (AD/BC)

as a non christian id expect to see you (and others) use CE (common era) to count years...it has no religious ties..

just pointing that out..no offense ofcourse

[HighGrowMan]

Originally Posted by weedseed

honestly thats bunk IMO...

id say its more accurate to say that we dont seek an authoritative figure. we, as humans in general, seek the power of authority for ourselves...to hold it in the palm of our own hand...this is, in the christian realm, what we call original sin....which is PRIDE.


MELT: christians also have documents of their religion long before josephus..he only dates to around 70 AD...

you arent a christian and yet you use the anno domini to count years (AD/BC)

as a non christian id expect to see you (and others) use CE (common era) to count years...it has no religious ties..

just pointing that out..no offense ofcourse

If you are familiar with the concept of the ego you should be able to understand the original sin, and how it seperates from your true self, Pride is a compulsion of your ego.

The more you let your ego control you the less you have control over yourself.

Proverbs 16:32
32He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.

[Liquidtruth]

Originally Posted by HighGrowMan

If you are familiar with the concept of the ego you should be able to understand the original sin, and how it seperates from your true self, Pride is a compulsion of your ego.

Eh? Christians love to say that pride is a sin, because they are supposed to put all of their accomplishments and achievements at God's feet. Sorry, taking pride in your work or your abilities is not wrong, it is proper, and leads to confidence. Most Christians have self confidence, most Christians ignore the crap other Christians tell them to focus on.

Originally Posted by HighGrowMan

The more you let your ego control you the less you have control over yourself.

The same can be said for anything.

Originally Posted by HighGrowMan

Proverbs 16:32
32He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.

That actually does not make sense... "and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city" WHAT??? That is nonsense. He that is slow to anger is not better than the mighty, because if the mighty chose too, they could destroy him, and once you are dead, you are nothing but dead.

Of course the Bible wants you to believe that if you stay meek it is better than asserting yourself, it would be of no use to the rulers of the time if it were otherwise. People should open their eyes when they read the Bible, and try to envision the reasons for the crap it spouts, instead of taking it on face value and believing it is 100% fact. I doubt even the early Christians did that.

[MelT]

Weedseed:MELT: christians also have documents of their religion long before josephus..he only dates to around 70 AD..."

Actually they don't have very much at all before then. Without getting into the usual debate, the earliest you can place any christian writing is the Gospels at around 70AD. Before then it was Judaism, not christianity.

Weedseed: you arent a christian and yet you use the anno domini to count years (AD/BC) as a non christian id expect to see you (and others) use CE (common era) to count years...it has no religious ties..

As a non-christian I'm not anal about using such a designation, as it doesn't hold any 'religious ties' for me, or is anything other than a way of expressing a date. Atheists aren't fundamentalists...

But I'm not sure why you're saying the above anyway? This isn't a contest to see who has the oldest religious writings - if it were, the Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians and particularly the Hindus would beat Christianity hands down by around 2,000 years.

MelT

[Liquidtruth]

Originally Posted by MelT

But I'm not sure why you're saying the above anyway? This isn't a contest to see who has the oldest religious writings - if it were, the Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians and particularly the Hindus would beat Christianity hands down by around 2,000 years.

MelT

I would probably beat them all by 20,000,000,000 years, 'cause I like made a time machine and am responsible for everything everyone believes in regards to religion. I cannot help getting drunk that night, nor can I be held responsible for the homo-homo-sapiens, even though I like, slept with all the women and caused them to come about (hell, when drunk even Neanderthal women look like Jennifer Love Hewitt I am sure...). I totally swear I did not brainwash a single one about religion or anything like that! Except... That guy who I told that shit to one time, but that was just a joke, how could I have expected him to take that shit seriously?!



hehe

[MelT]

Originally Posted by Liquidtruth

I would probably beat them all by 20,000,000,000 years, 'cause I like made a time machine and am responsible for everything everyone believes in regards to religion. I cannot help getting drunk that night, nor can I be held responsible for the homo-homo-sapiens, even though I like, slept with all the women and caused them to come about (hell, when drunk even Neanderthal women look like Jennifer Love Hewitt I am sure...). I totally swear I did not brainwash a single one about religion or anything like that! Except... That guy who I told that shit to one time, but that was just a joke, how could I have expected him to take that shit seriously?!



hehe

LOL!

MelT

[dirtydingusus]

religin began becouse the "leaders"wanted a way to controle the "people"with fear and guilt....


before religin people found truth within them selves....

[magg0t]

Originally Posted by weedseed

honestly thats bunk IMO...

id say its more accurate to say that we dont seek an authoritative figure. we, as humans in general, seek the power of authority for ourselves...to hold it in the palm of our own hand....

I dont believe that at all, I believe we seek a power to look up to, to give us orders in the sense of divine direction or inspiration, to "seek him with all our hearts and with all our souls..." Kind David said "...when thou saidst seek ye my face, my heart said unto thee, thy face lord will I seek..."

We always want someone higher, like the Mayor, or a king, or even the president.
God left everything in this life on earth to mimmick the things of Heaven, that is why it is called the Kingdom of Heaven, cause God is the ultimate authority and ruler...

Just a note.