Armageddon 2012 - The $10,000 offer

[MelT]

As some members seem intent on spreading the idea that the world will end, change, transform, flip, etc., etc., on 2012, I have a wonderful offer for them, and a chance to put their money where their mouths are. If they do believe so intently that their variation of the 2012 'event' will take place, this should be an easy kill.

I will enter into a legal, contractual agreement with any member for the sum of $10,000 dollars, based on a stated outcome for the cataclysmic events on 25th December in 2012. If the events take place, you get $10,000, if not I get it, easy peasy. Please choose one of the existing theories to enter this agreement, not your own variation, or a "well, like I transcended man...I'm a new being, etc." on the given day. Set up costs (no more than a couple of hundred dollars) to be shared between me and said participant. Over 18's only.

Before you leap to enter, read the below:

http://www.astunit.com/astrocrud/2012.htm

http://www.astro.uu.nl/~strous/AA/en/2012.html

http://www.mesoweb.com/features/aldana/implications.html - this site shows that the interpretation of the date could be off by as much as 260 years. With no cataclysmic outcome predicted.

QUOTE:

"The Sun is then in conjunction with the center of the Milky Way"

The Sun (and hence also the ecliptic) does not approach the center of the Milky Way to closer than about 5 degrees (which is ten times the apparent size of the Sun and Moon in the sky), and that happens not on 21 December but around 18 December, and not just in 2012 but in every year.

"We then pass through the plane of the Milky Way to the other side"

The Sun is now a few dozen light years north of the plane of the Milky Way. Not everybody agrees exactly how many dozen, which means that not everyone agrees where the plane of the Milky Way is near the Sun. If we are now a few dozen light years north of the plane of the Milky Way, then it is clear that we cannot pass through that plane in 2012, because to get to that plane would take a few dozen years even at the speed of light, and the Sun moves much slower than light does.

The location of the solstice changes by one degree in about 72 years, so that means that in 2012 it will only be about five arc minutes away from where it is this year. The sun does not line up with the center of the galaxy and will miss it by the same 5 or 6 degrees that it misses it by every year. END QUOTE

Anyone? This is a great way to show up nasty old close-minded science once and for all - and make a bundle of Xmas money too!

MelT

[slowhand04]

I think making bets and gambles about the end of the world or beginnings of a new age is not wise. For your opponent or whoever takes you up on this offer is at a lose lose, either lose the money or lose the world. I read your posts in HighGrowMan's thread and i understand your both eager to prove your points but with a bet, especially of a large sum of money, it stops being about finding the truth and about your right your wrong. And who is to say that a change of ages will be completely apparent in 2012, things could be set in motion beyond our own eyes. the universe is a vast and mysterious entity and i believe its' infinite is beyond the comprehension of a human mind; im not however disagreeing with your opinion about impossibility of events taking place on specific times of planetary alignment but i cannot agree with it either because i simply do not know. But by making this debate about money and being right you are tainting the subject; you should not be out to disprove someones beliefs but only to prove your own.

(my opinion)

[Azimuthal]

I'm picking 2011, the us sub-prime collapse will get worse then. 2002, 2005, 2008(which is now for the bean counters), 2011. With each step, the damage has become 3 times worse. Don't be fooled in to thinking this doesn't effect you if you don't leave in the US, it decreases the value of every bank, ie every dollar, world wide. When money loses value, it stops moving. When money stops moving you might find it hard to eat.

So, no bet

[sensimil]

Originally Posted by slowhand04

I think making bets and gambles about the end of the world or beginnings of a new age is not wise.

Naw, Its just keeping things interesting..like betting on a football game!

[Smigs]

You would not be able to spend the money.

I think people are just so stuck on living on earth, that they can't except that fact that the earth as we know it will be ended, recently, quite possibly 2012.

[HighGrowMan]

slowhand04 is right... I don't think any intelligent person would put a bet down on the end of the world; it's literally is a loose loose situation. If it's not the end of the world you loose 10,000, and if it is you loose it all. What is the point?

[MelT]

This is not a bet, but a challenge to see who truly believes.

>> I read your posts in HighGrowMan's thread and i understand your both eager to prove your points but with a bet, especially of a large sum of money, it stops being about finding the truth and about your right your wrong. It's silly to try and give it an air of validity by saying that those promoting this are seeking the truth.

LOL! You really can't say that by posting the facts about all this that I am in some way hampering 'the search for the truth'. Not my right or wrong either, but the rest of the sane world's against a handful of people promoting this for their own ends.

1) The mayan calendar doesn't stop on 2012, but rolls on to another cycle (see link)
2) The interpretation of the calendar as ending in 2012 could be as much as 260 years out.
3) There is no extraordinary conjunction taking place at the said point that doesn't happen every year.
4) The sun doesn't rise above the galactic plane for thousands of years.
5) There are no ancient predictions regarding this date. All of this has been extrapolated from the work of one writer (JM Jenkins, see above), with every loon in the world now leaping on the bandwaggon with their own version.

How can a spurious theory, based on inaccurate scientific ideas and created to sell books, be remotely about finding the truth?

>> And who is to say that a change of ages will be completely apparent in 2012, things could be set in motion beyond our own eyes. the universe is a vast and mysterious entity and i believe its' infinite is beyond the comprehension of a human mind

Backpeddling. The theory isn't about a subtle mental change, but cataclysmic destruction, change of government, polarity changes in the sun and earth, 'rivers running up stream', angels, the fall of civilisation, death by cosmic rays, etc.. If you want to see it as a subtle thing that only some will perceive then you're out of tune with the whole theory as proposed.

I am very sure that once the date has come and gone there'll be as many red-faces as there were when the Y2000 'cataclysm' didn't take place. People will try and weedle out of the whole prediction by using your same argument, 'Yeah, didn't happen on the big scale like everyone said, but I know a woman in Kentucky who says she saw God. So it really did happen, didn't it?' This is about the larger theory as stated by a series of authors, not our personal take on it.

> But by making this debate about money and being right you are tainting the subject; you should not be out to disprove someones beliefs but only to prove your own.

And 'tainting the subject'? LOL! What's to taint?

This is not about proving 'my' points. This is basic, fundamental astronomy that you can ask any astronomer about, not a clash of my thinking against other members. And I have every right to be here and try to disprove this silly theory, it isn't religion. I don't care what, say, Highgrow believes - I don't agree with a word he says, but he's a good man and has every right to put over his point. But I also have the right to put over the point of science too, this isn't some taboo subject that we should talk about in hushed voices and not dare to question. It's something that anyone who could bother their asses to research for an hour would realise is claptrap, just in the same way that Zeitgeist is. If you don't want to believe that then I respect your position, but we can say no more to each other.


I'm posting this not to 'make it about money', but to make casual readers of these threads to go out and research the facts themselves in the hope of proving me wrong. It's also a very good way of showing that although many people are happy to rabidly promote this to others as something they believe in implicitly and that WILL happen, not one of them believes enough to put their money where their mouths are. But you know, if I get more than one taker I will be extremely surprised, because half the people promoting this on the net are doing it for their own purposes and don't believe it either.


MelT

[MelT]

Originally Posted by HighGrowMan

slowhand04 is right... I don't think any intelligent person would put a bet down on the end of the world; it's literally is a loose loose situation. If it's not the end of the world you loose 10,000, and if it is you loose it all. What is the point?

The point is to find out who truly believes and who is here just to sell ideas and spread alarm. A couple of hundred dollars isn't a lot to prove personal conviction and be seen as someone standing by their beliefs, it shows moral courage. It isn't about who does or does not get the money, but who has enough conviction to accept the challenge.


MelT

[Smigs]

Originally Posted by MelT

This is not a bet, but a challenge to see who truly believes.

>> I read your posts in HighGrowMan's thread and i understand your both eager to prove your points but with a bet, especially of a large sum of money, it stops being about finding the truth and about your right your wrong. It's silly to try and give it an air of validity by saying that those promoting this are seeking the truth.

LOL! You really can't say that by posting the facts about all this that I am in some way hampering 'the search for the truth'. Not my right or wrong either, but the rest of the sane world's against a handful of people promoting this for their own ends.

1) The mayan calendar doesn't stop on 2012, but rolls on to another cycle (see link)
2) The interpretation of the calendar as ending in 2012 could be as much as 260 years out.
3) There is no extraordinary conjunction taking place at the said point that doesn't happen every year.
4) The sun doesn't rise above the galactic plane for thousands of years.
5) There are no ancient predictions regarding this date. All of this has been extrapolated from the work of one writer (JM Jenkins, see above), with every loon in the world now leaping on the bandwaggon with their own version.




MelT

Where's the link for the extension of the mayan calander ?

You have not provided any proof, as to opposing armageddon in 2012.

Why don't you get some facts, solid evidence, them your post might hold more legitimacy.

[DCrist721]

I'm going to take the bet! Even more, I'm going to raise your $10,000 by another ten grand, for a total of $20,000!












(What Melt doesn't know, is that as part of Project Mayhem, I have 23 nuclear missile silos strategically placed and ready to target major cities and government establishments across the globe on 12/25/12 :-D mwauhhahahaha)

[RATMEAT]

Sounds like another y2k. I cant wait for nothing to happen.

[HighGrowMan]

hehe... well MeLT, I am kinda chuckling, because as a person with an understanding of communication I've already won this battle, and your fighting on my side.

The more you talk about 2012, the more interest is sparked in it, especially since you've started to go out of your way to state your conviction against it.

Really, if all of this actually bothered you, you would figure out a way to slow the thread down, not add fuel to the fire by creating an entirely new thread, with exciting monetary value attached to it.

Honestly, I picked the day 2012 for it's numerical significance in relation to 9/11/01, I didn't know about the Maya prediction when I first told my friend about it several years ago. I reasoned with him that in order for it to be vaild though, we would have to first wait and see if their is a second sign to follow in 2008, also because of it's numerical significance.

After that I also talked with another friend about it, and we made arrangements that if things started going that route we would be able to boot it off to somewhere safe; either to ride out the storm, or to prepare a resistance movement. He reasoned that if nothing happened we could always just become mercenaries, and fight for causes that we felt were just.

[mrblonde77]

Originally Posted by Smigs

I think people are just so stuck on living on earth, that they can't except that fact that the earth as we know it will be ended, recently, quite possibly 2012.

Ignoring your misuse of the word "recently", the world isn't going to end in 2012. It still has 4 billion years to play out. A better question is will the human species still exist at the end of the world.

[Smigs]

Originally Posted by mrblonde77

the world is going to end in 2012.

One thing we can agree on.

Originally Posted by mrblonde77

It still has 4 billion years to play out.

Ah I suppose God told you this right, you seem pretty sure of yourself.

[mrblonde77]

Originally Posted by Smigs

Ah I suppose God told you this right, you seem pretty sure of yourself.

Ha! No, actually. You must forget that some people actually use empirical evidence to back up their statements. I know it's not common practice for those that subscribe to a religion to muddy the waters with evidence.

Can we agree that NASA is reliable?

Originally Posted by NASA

The sun was born about 4.6 billion years ago. It has enough nuclear fuel to remain much as it is for another 5 billion years.

Source: http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/sun_worldbook.html