The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge

[CosmicSerpent]

"The Cosmic Serpent" is a book written by an anthropologist named Jeremy Narby. It's one of my favorite books obviously because it inspired my user name. Whether you believe in science, the supernatural, or a combination of both, this book should be an interesting read.

Narby is an anthropologist studying the culture of the Asháninka, the indigenous people of the Peruvian Amazon. The Asháninka are known to have an extensive knowledge of alternative medicine. They can identify and medicinally use thousands of the plant species native to the Amazon. Much of this knowledge has been accepted by modern science and used in Western medicine, but much of it has also remained undiscovered by the outside world.

Narby focuses mainly on shamanism, one of the oldest religious practices in existence. The shamans function as the doctors as well as religious leaders of these people, and have an extensive knowledge of botanical medicine. So he follows a shaman for a few weeks, constantly trying to learn about his function in society. Narby found that the shamans rely heavily on a psychoactive substance called ayahuasca. They claim to receive all of their medicinal knowledge through spiritual experiences with ayahuasca.

Narby is very skeptical of this at first. He finds it impossible that this extensive knowledge came from a mild-altering substance and therefore, must have come from other methods. He decides to learn as much as he can about shamanism, ayahuasca, and the spiritual beliefs of these people, and eventually ingests ayahuasca himself. While under the influence of the drug, he has visions of a snake talking to him, as well as several other spiritual experiences. The shaman tells him that everyone who drinks ayahuasca sees this snake, and it is the source of their knowledge.

During his research, Narby makes a number of startling observations. For one, the composition of ayahuasca itself... The active ingredient in the mixture is DMT, which the Asháninka get from a vine native to the Amazon. However, in order for the DMT to be activated and actually work, the brew must contain an enzyme from a separate plant also found in the Amazon. This enzyme makes it possible for the stomach to digest the DMT and produce psychoactive effects, otherwise the brew is useless. This specific mixture must be crushed and boiled for several days in order for the substance to work right. Narby takes note of this and wonders how the Asháninka were able to invent this exact mixture out of the hundreds of thousands of plants native to the Amazon, and also know to boil it for so long. The likelihood of this exact mixture coming into existence by random selection and experimentation would be almost impossible, just like the rest of the Asháninka's medicinal knowledge.

Through his research, Narby proposes that the Asháninka shamans were, in fact, receiving information from their spiritual experiences. He decides to investigate the matter of the snake he saw during his ayahuasca experience. He discovers that in nearly all of the world's indigenous cultures, there is the presence of this spiritual snake, or cosmic serpent... even in cultures who have never been exposed to a real snake. He goes on to investigate whether or not these serpents may be representative of DNA itself, the double helix. He also investigates whether DNA is the source of this vast medicinal knowledge attained by the Asháninka. There is some pretty incredible evidence to support this as a real possibility.

Anyway, read the book for yourself and decide what you think. Has anyone else already read it? Although the book doesn't deal with the afterlife or the soul directly, it does suggest that there is some higher power influencing our universe in very strange ways. It investigates a very valid connection between molecular biology and human spirituality. Here's some additional information that can explain things better than I can:

http://deoxy.org/meme/CosmicSerpent
http://deoxy.org/narbystew.htm
http://fusionanomaly.net/cosmicserpent.html
http://web.ionsys.com/~remedy/COSMIC%20SERPENT.htm

[Rasta_Man]

Too bad it's not science.

In 1997, following publication of The Cosmic Serpent, Harvard biophysicist Jacques Dubochet roundly criticized Narby for insufficiently testing his hypothesis about DNA and universal intelligence. Accusing Narby of "blindly charging down the wrong path," Dubochet made it clear that in his opinion Narby had succumbed to the least responsible path of science.

But it was never meant to be a formal scientific inquiry. Jeremy Narby is an anthropologist, not a scientist, and his intent clearly was to use his own experience to inspire us to think more deeply about our intelligence and what our potential could be. Subjective experience is not admissible to established scientific methodology, which is fine for science.

[MelT]

[quote=CosmicSerpent;1875689Narby takes note of this and wonders how the Asháninka were able to invent this exact mixture out of the hundreds of thousands of plants native to the Amazon, and also know to boil it for so long. The likelihood of this exact mixture coming into existence by random selection and experimentation would be almost impossible, just like the rest of the Asháninka's medicinal knowledge.

Through his research, Narby proposes that the Asháninka shamans were, in fact, receiving information from their spiritual experiences. He decides to investigate the matter of the snake he saw during his ayahuasca experience. He discovers that in nearly all of the world's indigenous cultures, there is the presence of this spiritual snake, or cosmic serpent... even in cultures who have never been exposed to a real snake. He goes on to investigate whether or not these serpents may be representative of DNA itself, the double helix. He also investigates whether DNA is the source of this vast medicinal knowledge attained by the Asháninka. There is some pretty incredible evidence to support this as a real possibility.

[/quote]

If the information on how to create the drug came from the serpent, how did they first see the serpent without it?

I think the answer lies more in the fact that, as said at the start of the OP, they do have a vast knowledge of plants, and it has to come first before the visions.

I would question the existence of a serpent in all cultures. If I was to search I could find references to them in a good many cultures, but not necessarily as central characters in a spiritual context. I can think of a good many where there's a tale or two about snakes and serpents, but only a handful where it's a deep spiritual symbol.

But it's the leap in saying that it's representative of DNA that I have to question? What basis does he have for the connection? And then to go onto say that the tribe's own DNA gives them the kowledge? Can you say a bit more about this side?


MelT

[Blackmaster]

I now have no faith in skeptics,I'm really starting to think they are either insane or can't except that there is a cosmic meaning for our existence.I believe ayachusca raises your vibration's to those of the fifth dimensional frequency,and yes there's aliens that lie in that dimension,some call them angels but there freaking aliens.

I could get into the whole anunaki thing but I'll probally get debunked...oh well...

Drink the potion people i KNOW i PLAN ON DOING SO......Good vibes~B

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by Blackmaster

I now have no faith in skeptics

It's much easier to validate your own personal convictions if you don't believe in scientific skepticism.

Although, I wouldn't much call it reality.

I'm really starting to think they are either insane

Because they don't agree with you?

or can't except that there is a cosmic meaning for our existence.

There is meaning behind our existence? If you have proof of this, please share it with the rest of the human race.

I believe ayachusca raises your vibration's to those of the fifth dimensional frequency,

Evidence please!

String theory is totally unproven, and even lacks a testable hypothesis, by the way.

I think it's more likely that it invokes a strong psychotropic reaction

and yes there's aliens that lie in that dimension,some call them angels but there freaking aliens.

Give me that proof.

I could get into the whole anaunaki thing but I'll probally get debunked...oh well...

You will, because it's a unproven and unsubstantiated claim based in fallacious logic and bad science.

Drink the potion people i KNOW i PLAN ON DOING SO

I bet you will.

[shasta]

Originally Posted by Blackmaster

I now have no faith in skeptics,I'm really starting to think they are either insane or can't except that there is a cosmic meaning for our existence. I believe ayachusca raises your vibration's to those of the fifth dimensional frequency,and yes there's aliens that lie in that dimension,some call them angels but there freaking aliens.

I could get into the whole anunaki thing but I'll probally get debunked...oh well...

Drink the potion people i KNOW i PLAN ON DOING SO......Good vibes~B

This is why we must start teaching logic starting in elementary school. Ill go ahead and be the asshole who says it... No one cares about your opinion. If you can not justify it then don't say it. Give us something to take you seriously, maybe a premise1, premise2, conclusion type argument. Even try it with some faulty premises, try any attempt at a logical argument even if you are wrong. Believing in something that is unproven doesn't make it real, it makes you delusional.

Back to the point of the thread... What is the authors basic conclusion? Is it that knowledge of medicinal plants, along with other info, is programmed into our dna and revealed through a snake like deity which is a representative of our dna? That is quite a claim. It is interesting to ponder but I wouldn't invest much belief into it without some strong objective evidence. Sounds like a cool book to read as long as you understand it in the proper framework.

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by Rasta_Man

Too bad it's not science.

No one said it was... maybe I should have said it would be an interesting read if you were willing to entertain a thought without necessarily accepting it.

But it was never meant to be a formal scientific inquiry. Jeremy Narby is an anthropologist, not a scientist, and his intent clearly was to use his own experience to inspire us to think more deeply about our intelligence and what our potential could be. Subjective experience is not admissible to established scientific methodology, which is fine for science.

If anything, the book uses philosophy more than science. But I think before anyone jumps to conclusions, they should read it first. Narby isn't trying to prove anything from a scientific standpoint, he's simply exploring a possibility using very basic logic. And science or not, he makes some very convincing arguments.

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by MelT

If the information on how to create the drug came from the serpent, how did they first see the serpent without it?

I don't remember all of the details... but I think Narby explored this very problem in the book. I think they claim to have received the knowledge from other spiritual experiences that weren't drug-induced.

I would question the existence of a serpent in all cultures. If I was to search I could find references to them in a good many cultures, but not necessarily as central characters in a spiritual context. I can think of a good many where there's a tale or two about snakes and serpents, but only a handful where it's a deep spiritual symbol.

You'd be surprised how prevalent they really are... again Narby explores this in his book and lists countless examples of the serpent in many different cultures.

But it's the leap in saying that it's representative of DNA that I have to question? What basis does he have for the connection? And then to go onto say that the tribe's own DNA gives them the kowledge? Can you say a bit more about this side?

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the book with me, and it's been a little while since I read it so I'm a little foggy on all the details. There is a legitimate basis for the connection though, and he spends a lot of time on this. I think this is discussed in some of the links I posted originally.

But anyway, I highly recommend reading the book. I could go on and on explaining the details, but I don't have the time and they're better expressed in the book anyway.

[Medicine Al]

Cool recommend, I will read that later, it sounds interesting

I also find interesting the discounting of any level of information that science has not produced a gauge to measure. All science is created from inspiration, not the other way around, a hypothesis can be wrong, but until it is explored, who would know? Anthropology has a human element that always throws curveballs at the normal labrotory approach.

Lack of a measurement device is not proof of the absence of a phenomena, except to a closed minded skeptic. Metaphysics confounds the scientific point of view, because it is only really understood by experiencing first hand. I have had some pretty informative peyote experiences, but I can't prove it to a scientist, because by the time an investigation begins, it's over.

Sometimes you have to use your imagination as well as your databank.

[Rasta_Man]

Sounds like a snoozer.

It's like reading on string theory; interesting, but pointless.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Blackmaster]

Originally Posted by shasta

This is why we must start teaching logic starting in elementary school. Ill go ahead and be the asshole who says it... No one cares about your opinion. If you can not justify it then don't say it. Give us something to take you seriously, maybe a premise1, premise2, conclusion type argument. Even try it with some faulty premises, try any attempt at a logical argument even if you are wrong. Believing in something that is unproven doesn't make it real, it makes you delusional.

Wow way to be real scientific about your rebutal.We all know of the string theory is real and not psedosicnce,so why even try to pass me off as some nut.

Second why would'nt there be other entities living beside us I mean were living alongside microrganism,what you feel too small now knowing your just a speck in the cosmic pool of life.

Assholes make you do research,I'll be back don't think I won't....

[shasta]

When you can prove that drugs bring you into a fifth dimension in which you meet aliens then feel free to enlighten me and the entire scientific and logical community.

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by Blackmaster

We all know of the string theory is real and not psedosicnce

You're right, but you're using it as pseudoscience, as Shasta pointed out.

But you must also realize that string-theory is far from a recognized and confirmed hypothesis.

It's not even a testable hypothesis right now.

[Palmer Eldritch]

ok....

I now have no faith in skeptics

I found that pretty funny, i don't know about the rest of you

one thought, science has proven the existence of things we hadn't observed before. The hypothesized location of Neptune was calculated using standard physics models before it was found. The math pointed to the necessity of a physical body and there it was when we looked. That means that science is a viable avenue of exploring fringe issues. It works, given enough time. so if there are things that should be as observable if they are held to be true, the methods of science will find the phenomenon. Don't bash the scientific method just because you don't understand it or are willing to wait for an answer, it has produced everything else you enjoy today. Its not because skeptics are afraid of realizing something profound and a divine plan, aliens, whatever. our feelings don't really come into play, our allegiance is to the thought process, not the results it produces. Instead of jumping to a conclusion, we'd rather test it making sure its true before we put stock into it.

i agree wholeheartedly, shasta, that we need classical logic training in elementary schools. There are so many people who call themselves open minded not because they are willing to challenge all ideas but because they drift towards those held to be true by counter-authority. Now i agree that there is a lot of esoteric true knowledge that just isn't being spread due to mainstream interests taking all the bandwidth so to say, but a lot of these can also debunked fully or cast a healthy amount of doubt onto it using the tools of logic and debate that has been known to mankind for thousands of years. its something that while not ubiquitous with human civilization, has been almost lost completely since the 20th sensationalist and subjective nature of fact delivery. Using logic correctly would save us so much time because we'd be able to cast out intellectual ghosts instead of them lingering around.

dunno, i'll read it if i remember it. you see i love the mystical because i find life so boring, so predictable. I'm always in some alternate reality, but I don't let my wishes distract me from recognizing what can be held as empirical truth.
hmmm.... my scientific american is late

[MelT]

What PE said...

But also:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">MELT I would question the existence of a serpent in all cultures. If I was to search I could find references to them in a good many cultures, but not necessarily as central characters in a spiritual context. I can think of a good many where there's a tale or two about snakes and serpents, but only a handful where it's a deep spiritual symbol. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>QUOTE : You'd be surprised how prevalent they really are... again Narby explores this in his book and lists countless examples of the serpent in many different cultures.>>>

I've studied ancient belief systems and cultures for 40 years. I would humbly suggest that Narby's links are tenuous at best. They are far, far from prevalent. I can think of at least 20 important, long-lived cultures who didn't mention snakes or serpents at all. To link any of it to DNA is sensationalism, intended to sell books.

MelT