my theory of the recycled universe.

[chiefMOJOrisin]

those in the know are aware of the infinite size, beauty and intrigue of our universe. believe what theory you wish, but they all revolve around the big bang being the beginning of our existance. a mammoth explosion containing unmerasurable amounts of energy and matter. (technically unmeasurable.... scientists try to ball park the entire amount of matter in the universe).

after the big bang, there was a certain amount of matter in the universe. after the first hydrogen gas clouds collapsed into themselves and formed the first stars, there was a set amount of matter. that matter, whether in the form of gas or in the form of the first elements up to iron, changes throughout the life of the universe. nuclear fusion inside the stars churns up all the elements forming new, heavier elements.

but what happens to that matter?? i heard recently, and believe, that it ever so slowly diminishes as new processes take place. for example.... when playing with play-doh, you start with a set amount of that play-doh. but as you contort it into new shapes, pushing it through the little plastic contraptions to form spaghetti, you lose a small amount of the overall mass. some gets stuck to your fingers, some stays in the molds and some stays inside the presses. after the changes in the play-doh are made, if u ball it all up you will have a smaller ball than when you started. even though the lost mass is still in existance, it is in a different place. and supposedly, the same goes for our universe.

ever since the first transformations begain in our universe, there was escaping matter that, in turn, caused the the new product to be smaller. even if its .0000000001 grams less. once the very first stars died, they recycled themselves through varying processes to form new stars, planests, nebulae etc... but, the new stars, planets and nebulae have lost a small amount of thier mass. over the last 13 some odd billion years.... our universe has been shrinking. in over all mass. not over all size or space. our universe is actually expanding (area wise) and it has been ever since the big bang.

even as black holes "eat" passer-bys they exhaust a micro amount of matter. as it consumes, the black holes releases perhaps an atom at a time. so even black holes are on a course to nothingness.

as the stars die and give birth to new stars, the universe will be losing matter. where that matter goes is what intrigues me.

my theory is this......

i believe that the matter lost from black holes and the recycling of stars is dark matter. when scientists tried to account for all the mass/matter in the universe, they were astounded to find that over 75% (not sure of exact number.... definatly bigger thant 75% though) of the universe was "missing". according to thier calculations, there should have been a shit-ton of matter present that was not accounted for. this led the scientists to theorize dark matter. because the amount of visible and measureable matter should technically fall apart and float away into space due to the lack of gravity created by the matter, scientists were led to believe that some unknown invisible matter MUST be present to create enough gravity to hold the universe together.

in my theory, the matter given off by the natural processes of our universe is the dark matter scientists believe exist. obviously, in the beginning there was a great deal of matter. all that matter was in the form of hydrogen. as the stars formed and died and formed again, the matter given off didnt go back into making new stars, it went wherever dark matter goes. over the billions of years, trillions of stars and black holes lived and died and contributed to the dark matter society. and in the present, all the lost matter is now dark matter.... in my theory.

eventually, the universe will use up its supply of matter and be left with nothing but dark matter. now, its obvious that there was something before the big bang. whether its infinite membranes that collide to form universes, or its an alien playing marbles with universes..... there was something there.

i think, that the universal process repeats itself much like stars repeat. once all the matter in a universe is used up and release as dark matter, that dark matter is all thats left. once nothing is left, the weakest force then becomes the strongest. gravity. gravity pulls all the dark matter together. similar to the way stars burst into life when clumps of gas get pulled in ward by gravity. once the gravity of the dark matter pulls it self together, it becomes super dense, reaches the breaking point and BOOM! there goes another big bang... and there goes another universe. right after the explosion, the dark matter is broken up back into clouds of hydrogen gas and the process starts all over. (makes sense to me and my weed)

this still leaves me wondering what could possibly have started everything. even if my silly theory were true, there would still have to be a source for all the matter that makes up our universe and caused the initial "big bang".

thats why i am so damn interested in the universe and everything in it. it is so mystifying and down right confusing. our current culture is all about the now. get it now and get it as fast as possible. and amist this world where everone cant get out of their own way, there is a much more important question than any other.... where did everything come from?? it seems that everyone is more interested in getting a phone that has cable, mp3s, video cameras, coffee makers and washing machines than understanding WHY we are here and WHY we are even in existance. the iPhone is so irrelevent compared to the grand scheme of things. WE are so irrelevent compared to the grand scheme of things.

i went to NYC over the weekend with my mom and girl so they could buy me shit for my birthday which was monday. i saw douche bags walking around in 80+ degree weather with full suit and ties, carrying a leather breifcase and talking into the air with that god awful invention the bluetooth glued to thier ears. these wallstreet guys think they are such hot shit and that what they do is so fuckin important. when in real life it doesnt mean shit and all they do is is piss me off. once again... in the grand scheme of things, those guys are lower than whale shit. but in our money grubbing, have it NOW culture... arrogent people like that are not only accepted, they are praised. everyone loves the guys who disregards his family, works 25 hours a day, spend OTHER peoples money (most of which is lost) and drives an lexus to work so he doesnt have to aprk himself. all he cares about is money.... but he is too ignorant to know (or want to know) that his pathetic life means nothing. that the universe will go on as it should regardless of how much he spends on a ralph lauren blazer.

i've gotten off the point. which was hazy to begin with.

any feedback????

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Very sound theory. Cycles are a very important part of understanding the universe and also spirituality.

The source of all-matter is the Infinite, or Absolute, or The ALL is what it is known by. Some personify it (faithists), others quantify it (scientists), others both.

All-matter equals all-power and all-knowledge contained in the system, whether conscious or chance, or both twisted together somehow.


The only way it could be infinite is if it never ends and never began, but the infinite contains all finite possibility as well. You can have a beginning and an end if you dictate the boundaries on an infinite plane. (this is life and death to me)

It's a cycle like you see it as and is eternal from what I have observed. This is mostly speculation as I do not have much proof other than others feel the same way as me, but it makes sense a lot like what you are talking about.

Filling in the blanks with speculation frustrates scientists who want a definite answer with facts, but sometimes we are unable to really prove why we feel the way we feel. So is the nature of the universe. As hard as we try to make sense of all of this, the more it begins to become confusing. Why, I don't know but I know it's true.

"Things are covering themselves up just as fast as they are revealing themselves"

[chiefMOJOrisin]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

Filling in the blanks with speculation frustrates scientists who want a definite answer with facts, but sometimes we are unable to really prove why we feel the way we feel. So is the nature of the universe. As hard as we try to make sense of all of this, the more it begins to become confusing. Why, I don't know but I know it's true.

"Things are covering themselves up just as fast as they are revealing themselves"

it frustrates me as well. i like to hypothesize certain things... but i would still love a definite answer. i am not religious in anyway... beside that i find the history interesting and how the people of that time viewed and understood their world. i believe in science and i need proof to believe something. if not proof, a strong inkling towards a certain side of an arguement... or a majority agreement between myself and others who believe the same thing. if none of that... then common sense prevails.

i agree 100% that it can sometimes be difficult to prove/explain the way we feel about a topic.... knowing that i, myself knows how and why i feel a certain way but can't explain it in a way that others can comprehend.

the quote at the end of your post sums up a lot. especially in science. the search for answers to specific questions almost always brings up new, often more difficult questions. for example.... scientists often wondered if volcanic activity could be present on bodies much further from the sun than say, earth or even mars. once they found it was entirely possible, they wanted to know why. such as in the case of Jupiter's moon Io. It is the most volcanically active body in our solar system, yet it is millions of miles away from the sun. One question answered (is there volcanism deep in our solar system?) and more questions arise (how is it getting so much heat?) Eventually scientist came to realize that Io was being bent and pulled and squeezed by the gravity of Jupiter and its satellites, causing the inside of Io to become super hot and molten.

and then it goes even further...... once scientists found out that volcanism is present in our outer solar system, scientists then asked another question... "how far out does volcanism exist?" once again, the original question (which stemmed from another question) gets answered and brings along more questions. Neptune's moon Triton is much farther from the sun that Io, yet it too has active volcanic features. However, they were like nothing ever seen before. Instead of molten rock, it was molten ice. there are ice volcanoes and the biggest geysers in the solar system. geysers that shoot well up into the sky and are tinted black due to a chemical process going on in the atmosphere. I believe it was either nitrogen or methane ice. Either way, their question was answered.... but it arose the question of how the hell these strange volcanic features work? and it goes on and on...

i just hope a plausible, widely accepted theory of everything exists before i die

[Medicine Al]

So did Einstein, my friend, best of luck!

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Originally Posted by chiefMOJOrisin

i just hope a plausible, widely accepted theory of everything exists before i die

You and me both brother! Sometimes, however- the only acceptable theory is a personal one that you can't even prove at first.

Einstein had this problem.

I have this problem.

You are not alone.

[blackdahlia515]

OP: Very interesting and plausible theory. But in the defense of the suit-wearing guy, tell me you wouldn't like to be rich? If everything is as unimportant as you believe (which I personally agree with), then why are you even worried about him? In your own words, his suit, his wealth, and his not caring, are just as unimportant as, well, you (or anything at all for that matter) are. This isn't an attack or anything like that, just a question/debate thingy.

MrGoodstuff: after reading your first post, I wonder how many big bangs have happened since everything was created? If it is infact an ever-going cycle like the OP said, there couldn't have been just one, questions that lead to more questions....looks like another infinite cycle to me.


As a side-note, If you guys go here: http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php
and watch "Imagining the Tenth Dimension", part of the theory states that every galaxy could be completely different (i.e. different concepts of gravity, different speed of light, different rules of science, etc.). It's all so fuckin' mind boggling.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Yes it's totally mind-boggling sometimes it feels like your brain should explode from contradictions holding true.


The thing about infinity is that counting will instantly destroy infinity and turn it into the finite. The finite nature of ourselves has a lot of trouble comprehending infinity- it keeps wanting to quantify everything.

About the only way to describe the amount would be by saying it's the increase from zero to one, or one back to zero. It hasn't really started and won't end. It just is.

It has happened the most times possible, or happens eternally. Same thing.

In all possibility there is the possibility for no possibilities. Nothing exists inside of everything. It's a contradiction inside a contradiction, a loop within a loop.

A good visual would be two mirrors held up next to each other. The beginning and end are connected.

[chiefMOJOrisin]

[quote=blackdahlia515;1740821]OP: Very interesting and plausible theory. But in the defense of the suit-wearing guy, tell me you wouldn't like to be rich? If everything is as unimportant as you believe (which I personally agree with), then why are you even worried about him? In your own words, his suit, his wealth, and his not caring, are just as unimportant as, well, you (or anything at all for that matter) are. This isn't an attack or anything like that, just a question/debate thingy.
quote]

you're right. i was just using the guy in a suit as a reference because it was fresh in my head. I am just as insignificant as anyone else. the fact that the suit guy THINKS he's got it all figured out is the point. when in truth, he and his life is meaningless to well, everyone but him.....compared to the universe.

of course i would like to be rich. not that i'm poor now, but i'm certainly not rich. however i would like to be wealthy not so i can feel i am better than others, or to purchase things that are nothing but expensive symbols of my insecurity.... but to end the struggle to live a comfortable life. If i was rich I would most likely put most of my money towards the topic at hand. First thing would be a kick ass telescope

[Mr.GoodStuff]

You have the right ideas about wealth my friend- it's meant for comfort, not to be better or have some status symbol.

[mhughes]

definately needs alot of refining, but its an idea alot of ppl are toying with

But theres a huge flaw...the losing mass statements.
E = mc^2, energy is equal to mass *constant
and we know energy can never be created or destroyed, you say we are losing mass, we are converting mass into energy
which can again be converted to mass
the mass statements you reference are similar to the idea of efficiency, theres nothing 100% efficient. When rolling play-doh some mass is converted to heat due to friction, etc

in high energy particle accelerators we have collided particles with their anti-particles and the result was simply energy, their masses were mutually annhilated
however, then new particles were formed

theres still alot of stuff out there that we simply dont kno right now

[Mr.GoodStuff]

But he didn't say loss of mass, the mass is becoming dark matter. He accounted for that.

[blackdahlia515]

^Yeah I thought he ment it like loss of mass from the main object/body of mass. Not literally mass dissapearing.

[chiefMOJOrisin]

the mass doesn't dissapear..... its just somewhere else.

keep in mind i'm a 22 year old electrical apprentice. not an astrophysicist

[AlphaQ]

Very interesting thoughts. I am personally very interested in the nature of dark matter and dark energy.

I don't think the mass leaking away to dark matter could be correct. As far as physicists know, so far, under observation all experiments have obeyed conservation of energy and mass converts into other mass and/or energy, E = Mc^2. If some mass leaked away, it has never been observed.

Buuut, sometime this year the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva Switzerland is scheduled to open. They hope to create baby black holes as well as miniature big bangs which may answer some of the questions put forth. Whether this will explain dark matter and dark energy is something I do not know.

[Budder81]

I think 'missing' mass isn't really missing. Maybe it's all the little pieces of dust, sand, pebbles and rocks floating around. I was thinking, isn't light itself mass?