my theory of the recycled universe.

[mhughes]

Light is interesting, light isnt mass, light is a wave. But it displays a dual nature, it functions as both a particle and a wave. Light travels in discrete "packets" of energy, photons.

And to Alpha, ya the LHC has some crazy stuff planed for it, my physx teacher studies particle physics and was obviously really excited. I hope they still are on track to fire it up in November.
I get to work on linear accelerators at work (i work in radiation oncology), but its hard to comprehend the amount of power this new machine has

[chiefMOJOrisin]

Originally Posted by mhughes

And to Alpha, ya the LHC has some crazy stuff planed for it, my physx teacher studies particle physics and was obviously really excited. I hope they still are on track to fire it up in November.
I get to work on linear accelerators at work (i work in radiation oncology), but its hard to comprehend the amount of power this new machine has

i agree..... i find colliders extremly interseting. any man made experiment that duplicates (to scale or not) or tries to duplicate natural processes that take place in the cosmos is of great interest to me. although i can't find pics/video... i saw a show on jupiter where scientists recreated the conditions on the surface and were successfully able to make a red spot.

[blackdahlia515]

One day we'll probably be able to build our own uber-planet

[stoned_soldier]

Infinite Universe as in space or possibilities?
Possiblities: impossible because as we know there are laws of physics that cannot be broken without the aid of technology. If this universe were infinite then everything wouldbe possible - but it is not that way.
Space: if finite, implies the existence of a void - a contradiction unto itself. Or you could call this place "God" if you want. If infinite, or constantly expanding, where is it expanding to? there is no void to fill up.

Explain to me how finite beings can exist in an "infinite" universe (assuming you mean by spread of space). There are trillions upon trillions of causes for a trillion more effects. There are many variables and a strict set of parameters in which we are only one tiny part.

If [my/anybody's] explanation for anything makes sense, it's not because it's true, but because in the narrow scope of things it seems the most plausible.

"Big Bang" - would you say that it happened or that it is happening? Happened: implies that an infinite world was created from a finite event in time (to me is impossible). Happening: You cannot claim that the world is infinite if it is still increasing in size, can you? It presupposes that it was at one time smaller and countable (finite). I think that the Universe must be finite. If it is expanding it either: is expanding INTO no-thing (paradox) or it is becoming greater than it is (this theory needs a powerful being). It only seems infinite.

Is the cup brimming full of water? What created the cup and how can one hold infinite water in this cup?

[chiefMOJOrisin]

our universe can be finite becusae it is still expanding from the big bang. however, if there are billions of universes as there are moons, planets, stars, galaxies etc... the "multi-verse" can be infinite. only becuase we dont know whats past/before the big bang.

for all we know, the force that caused the big bang is an infinite force that has always, and always will, forever make new universes.

the specifics are too foggy to be certain

[stoned_soldier]

Originally Posted by chiefMOJOrisin

our universe can be finite becusae it is still expanding from the big bang. however, if there are billions of universes as there are moons, planets, stars, galaxies etc... the "multi-verse" can be infinite. only becuase we dont know whats past/before the big bang.

for all we know, the force that caused the big bang is an infinite force that has always, and always will, forever make new universes.

the specifics are too foggy to be certain

My point was that it can't be called infinite but constantly expand because there is nowhere to expand to! Do you understand that? Think of my water glass analogy. The word "infinite" even sounds like an oxymoron. How can a thing be called a thing if it is incomplete? If the Universe is finite as you say, then what is its end? Where is it going - what is its plan? Perfection created by a higher being or destruction of our world? We are so geocentric even today - that we measure everything else by the measure of man. We are finite, so God MUUUUST be infinite.

"only becuase we dont know whats past/before the big bang" That was also my point - that explanations of things seem right until we step back and see a larger picture. So to you, someone who has no dealing with astronomy, it LOOKS infinite from your position.

[chiefMOJOrisin]

Originally Posted by stoned_soldier

My point was that it can't be called infinite but constantly expand because there is nowhere to expand to! Do you understand that? Think of my water glass analogy. The word "infinite" even sounds like an oxymoron. How can a thing be called a thing if it is incomplete? If the Universe is finite as you say, then what is its end? Where is it going - what is its plan? Perfection created by a higher being or destruction of our world? We are so geocentric even today - that we measure everything else by the measure of man. We are finite, so God MUUUUST be infinite.

"only becuase we dont know whats past/before the big bang" That was also my point - that explanations of things seem right until we step back and see a larger picture. So to you, someone who has no dealing with astronomy, it LOOKS infinite from your position.

there actually is a scientific name for the very farthest part (end) of the universe. i just can't remember what its called. i watched a show about the universe a while back and on that show they explained how the universe has this border all around it. i just cant remember what they called it and i cant find any links

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Originally Posted by stoned_soldier

My point was that it can't be called infinite but constantly expand because there is nowhere to expand to! Do you understand that?

You haven't taken into account the expansion being an illusion. There is no expansion in the infinite, only in the finite (illusion)

Think of my water glass analogy. The word "infinite" even sounds like an oxymoron.
How can a thing be called a thing if it is incomplete?

Actually, the word infinite is used to describe things that ARE NOT things. That's why. Plus, in dualism (illusion) contradictions hold true. Yes, the Infinite being the finite universe is an oxymoron. Yet it is a contradiction that holds true if you view the finite as illusion.

If the Universe is finite as you say, then what is its end? Where is it going - what is its plan? Perfection created by a higher being or destruction of our world? We are so geocentric even today - that we measure everything else by the measure of man. We are finite, so God MUUUUST be infinite.

Where is it going? Wherever it goes. What is it's plan? Whatever is happening...

In regards to our "geocentric" nature being how we measure things... We are using all that has been supplied to us, what measurements do you suggest we use? The non-existent ones?

"only becuase we dont know whats past/before the big bang" That was also my point - that explanations of things seem right until we step back and see a larger picture. So to you, someone who has no dealing with astronomy, it LOOKS infinite from your position.

The universe is expanding at the speed of light, there for our eyes cannot look beyond the edge even if we were moving at the speed of light. Move faster than the speed of light and you bend time and space itself- the edge could speed up accordingly or the speed could cause you to completely turn around and head the opposite way, or another way because the expansion is infinite. (meaning, the expansion is directly related to the speed your eyes can witness, the speed of light) -pure speculation, I know- but it's an explaination none the less.

[blackdahlia515]

If the universe is still expanding from the big bang, then wouldn't it be losing speed? It couldn't just be expanding at the same rate for this long. I think theoretically if we could build something that goes fast enough, we could catch up. It can't be moving at the speed of light the entire time it's expanding, it would have to slow down, science says so.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Originally Posted by blackdahlia515

If the universe is still expanding from the big bang, then wouldn't it be losing speed? It couldn't just be expanding at the same rate for this long. I think theoretically if we could build something that goes fast enough, we could catch up. It can't be moving at the speed of light the entire time it's expanding, it would have to slow down, science says so.

With no "center" gravity to crunch it back together it has nothing to slow it down. There is no matter outside of the universe to cause any friction from the expansion, just nothingness. It stays constant until the same forces that caused it to explode cause it to crunch back.

It's an illusion, a secret kept we keep from ourselves.

Science is an illusion like everything else that has boundaries or a definition.

[mhughes]

We have evidence of the universe expanding, Hubble documented this by showing how nearly all other galaxies demonstrate a red shift.
However we are not moving thru space, we are expanding with space.
its a very difficult topic, but try not to think of it as a bunch of galaxies all moving away from each other like balls thru air. Instead think of it as we are on a sheet of rubber that is being stretched, as its stretched further, our location hasbt really changed, but the space between us and another galaxy has increased.

and we really dont kno if the universe is infinite or not, we have no evidence that it is finite. we are enclossed by space and have no way of measuring or observing whats outside of it
however, if the universe is infinite, it may still stretch. If you have a series of numbers:
1,2,3,4... to infinity then multiply the series by 2
you still reach infinity so the size is still the same

very difficult concepts

[blackdahlia515]

Shit. I don't even know. Space and all this stuff is crazy, and interesting.

[chiefMOJOrisin]

Originally Posted by blackdahlia515

If the universe is still expanding from the big bang, then wouldn't it be losing speed? It couldn't just be expanding at the same rate for this long. I think theoretically if we could build something that goes fast enough, we could catch up. It can't be moving at the speed of light the entire time it's expanding, it would have to slow down, science says so.

theres nothing to slow it down. if say a comet swings around the sun and get flung back out of our solar system into the deepest throws of the universe (i know our solar system isnt near the end of the universe.... just a hypothetical) it will continue to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force. in this case, even the comets gravity isnt strong enough to slow it down. gravity is very weak... as compared to say, magnetism.

there is no way to go as fast as the speed of light..... yet

science actually says an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted on by an outside force. in this case.... the universe is our movin object..... what force is bigger than the universe, or has the ability to change the speed of an object that is bigger than everything??

imo, if the universe was infinite, wouldn't everything just be?? wouldnt the everything already be in its final location and the universe not be expanding?? too bad it is expanding.

like goodstuff said.... infinte is used to describe thing that ARE NOT things.... our universe and its components are very much real things.

[chiefMOJOrisin]

Originally Posted by mhughes

We have evidence of the universe expanding, Hubble documented this by showing how nearly all other galaxies demonstrate a red shift.
However we are not moving thru space, we are expanding with space.
its a very difficult topic, but try not to think of it as a bunch of galaxies all moving away from each other like balls thru air. Instead think of it as we are on a sheet of rubber that is being stretched, as its stretched further, our location hasbt really changed, but the space between us and another galaxy has increased.

if the universe was infinite... it would have to be some sort of sherical shape, that can exist for eternity in every direction.

if it is finite, it should be as u say, on a plane that expands such as a piece of flexible rubber in the shape of a piece of paper.

everything in the universe "displays" a red shift. red shift is simply a technique used to determine a celestial objects distance. u didnt say there is also a "blue shift". looked at through electromagnetic radiation, all objects will give off either red if their moving away, or blue if thier moving towards the viewing point.

imo, the proof that our universe is finite is the fact that that there is proof it is expanding. if it was infinite, wouldnt it already be where it was heading.... and further???

[Azimuthal]

THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE IS ACCELERATING