How could God exist?

[CH3VELLE]

Einstein knew the principles of relativity before there was any scientifc "proof."

this in itself is proof that it is possible that one can know something is true without any of its own.

[Liquidtruth]

Originally Posted by cannabis

Until you prove 'he' doesn't exist there is still reason to believe God exists.

No, by that logic see my previous post.

Originally Posted by CH3VELLE

Einstein knew the principles of relativity before there was any scientifc "proof."

this in itself is proof that it is possible that one can know something is true without any of its own.

Yes, someone can know what is up even without having the evidence, they just cannot prove it. That being the important part. The species does not progress if only one man is wandering the world with the truth, but is unable to prove it to anyone else. People should not take something on faith. If I ran up to you and said, "Hey man, if you give me all your money today you will live the rest of your life as a happy man" would you give me all your money, or would you be skeptical of my claims? I certainly hope you would demand some evidence and proof of my claim.

[cannabis]

There is always going to be slight reason to believe a God exists because the idea of a God existing will never be disproved.


And comparing God to unicorns and such is irrelevant. Atheists do it all the time in attempts to comfort their disbelief's. There is an obvious difference in scale and everyone knows it.

[Liquidtruth]

Originally Posted by cannabis

There is always going to be slight reason to believe a God exists because the idea of a God existing will never be disproved.

That is illogical. And again I reiterate...

Originally Posted by Liquidtruth

Then by that logic, unicorns, dragons, odin, osiris, santa, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, the forgotten realms, dragonlance, every fictional book ever written, are all true until someone can prove otherwise. Since no one can prove otherwise, they must all be factual, eh? *shakes his head*

Originally Posted by cannabis

And comparing God to unicorns and such is irrelevant. Atheists do it all the time in attempts to comfort their disbelief's. There is an obvious difference in scale and everyone knows it.

I also compared God to Odin. Odin is a god, so what difference in scale is there?

My point is, there is no evidence, and while I believe the idea of a creator is valid, though currently unprovable, to say that we understand this creator, know what he/she/it wants, is not something we are able to say, because we have no evidence. Christianity is as "valid" as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Ásatrú, and every other religion out there, when it comes to telling us what God wants. There is nothing special about it, and most of its stories are copied from much older religions. I do not care if someone believes in a God, more power to them. I have a problem when they try and tell me they know the thoughts of God. I have a problem when they believe that because they know the thoughts of God, they know what is best for everyone else in the world. I have a problem when people in power kowtow to religious fanatics and introduce illogical legislation that either hinders us, or hurts us, or both.

These arguments basically consist of a group of people pointing out errors in logic (pretty much the same error over and over again), and some other people ignoring it and continuing to make errors in logic while failing to understand why people do not just agree with their stunning display of illogic. The question is, "How could God exist". So, if anyone has any actual ideas on how the God of Abraham (since he seems to be the one all these threads are centered around) can exist, I (and I am sure others) would be most interested in hearing some good, logical, arguments.

[Chaohinon]

I've given enough consideration to the philosophical, scientific, historical, and moral disputes that counter religious dogma, but the reasons the OP brought up are why I've decided that the existence of a deity is wholly irrelevant to human behavior and thinking. If a god or gods do exist, clearly it/they is/are unworthy of reverence. Unquestioning respect has always been a thorn in the side of mankind's collective progress, and only occurs in situations where potential dissenters have been A) deprived of vital information that would sway their loyalty (brainwash, indoctrination, media restriction) or B) intimidated or enticed into submission. Unquestioning loyalty is what gave way to the Holocaust and the Great Leap Forward; "God wills it" is just another case of the nuremberg defense.

[mrblonde77]

Originally Posted by cannabis

And comparing God to unicorns and such is irrelevant. Atheists do it all the time in attempts to comfort their disbelief's. There is an obvious difference in scale and everyone knows it.

Actually there isn't, and that is exactly what we're trying to make you guys see. Unfortunately you've been repeatedly conditioned to reject such an idea.

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by Liquidtruth

That is illogical. And again I reiterate...
I also compared God to Odin. Odin is a god, so what difference in scale is there?

My point is, there is no evidence, and while I believe the idea of a creator is valid, though currently unprovable, to say that we understand this creator, know what he/she/it wants, is not something we are able to say, because we have no evidence. Christianity is as "valid" as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Ásatrú, and every other religion out there, when it comes to telling us what God wants. There is nothing special about it, and most of its stories are copied from much older religions. I do not care if someone believes in a God, more power to them. I have a problem when they try and tell me they know the thoughts of God. I have a problem when they believe that because they know the thoughts of God, they know what is best for everyone else in the world. I have a problem when people in power kowtow to religious fanatics and introduce illogical legislation that either hinders us, or hurts us, or both.

These arguments basically consist of a group of people pointing out errors in logic (pretty much the same error over and over again), and some other people ignoring it and continuing to make errors in logic while failing to understand why people do not just agree with their stunning display of illogic. The question is, "How could God exist". So, if anyone has any actual ideas on how the God of Abraham (since he seems to be the one all these threads are centered around) can exist, I (and I am sure others) would be most interested in hearing some good, logical, arguments.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Well said, Liquidtruth. It's even a valid hypothesis when you put it that way.

I personally have many doubts about it's degree of validity; BUT, I have no evidence and that's just my personal conviction. In good conscience; I cannot call it false or invalid.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Originally Posted by thehybridlife

I have always pondered this question, but I could never find an answer.
If God exists, why does He allow fucked up things to happen?
This is the same 'God' that let Hitler exterminate millions of innocent people.

I see it like this:
God did not create man, but man created God out of fear and ignorance.

Just a thought.

Take a second to think what it would be like for everything to go your way- always 100% of the time.

If life is entertainment for this being-

Why would it be all the same, even if it was all good?

Entertainment is about change, it's why a T.V. hypnotizes us. It's why the news is bad news.

Because everything good is boring and uneventful.

Life is entertainment for an all-powerful and all-knowing being capable of achieving whatever it desired.


Let it be known- THERE WILL BE DRAMA. THERE WILL BE SUFFERING. THERE WILL BE HATE. THERE WILL BE ALL THINGS HORRIBLE.

Because without these things, it's all the same thing- which is boring.

Consider being at your favorite place to be for a trillion trillion years. Add on another few trillion. Then a few more.

He's a genius beyond measure, and because of this- his entertainment is flawless. It can go on forever with minimal boredom because of change.

This is the reason behind the dualistic spirit- any duality for that matter. It exists just to define boundaries in a limitless space.

The reason we do not discover these things is because WE HIDE THEM FROM OURSELVES. This is the reason those who do not believe can continue to have exactly what they asked for. (they ask to not ever see or understand God, I believe because it got old after a few trillion years)

When everything is God- His will is everything there is. If that is so hard to see, then you have limited your mind because you already understood it and it got old. Chance became more interesting than destiny.

It's hard for religious people to place evil into the hands of God, because religion seems to be the idealist views of people for good reason. But God has two sides- equally good and equally evil. Equal truth. Yet equal lies. People say that the God of love is the true God. But without Lucifer, he isn't the God of love at all. Just a God that could be.

[cannabis]

Originally Posted by Liquidtruth

That is illogical. And again I reiterate...

Please do,
you explained only you're point. Which by the way I understand what you mean by it.

I also compared God to Odin. Odin is a god, so what difference in scale is there?

Well not really, I guess I should have specified my argument. When i say the idea of a God, I'm talking about monotheism...the belief in a God like creator of Life. Call him whatever you want but the idea of believing in a God is completely logical. Therefore comparing God to other simple imaginative figures is ridiculous, There's no unicorn Bible last time I checked, no one can say everything in the Bible is false. Therefore one can consider God realistic.

My point is, there is no evidence, and while I believe the idea of a creator is valid, though currently unprovable, to say that we understand this creator, know what he/she/it wants, is not something we are able to say, because we have no evidence.

I agree.

Christianity is as "valid" as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Ásatrú, and every other religion out there, when it comes to telling us what God wants. There is nothing special about it, and most of its stories are copied from much older religions. I do not care if someone believes in a God, more power to them. I have a problem when they try and tell me they know the thoughts of God. I have a problem when they believe that because they know the thoughts of God, they know what is best for everyone else in the world. I have a problem when people in power kowtow to religious fanatics and introduce illogical legislation that either hinders us, or hurts us, or both.

Again I agree, and when you say copied form other religions, you're right. They basically are...and there's nothing wrong with the early and simple forms of religion. Some religions can dwell into bullshit when they distance away beliefs from the main intentions of a religion. And I just want to say that I don't consider my catholic faith to be any better than any other faith. No matter how many differences, i believe people can believe in whatever they want. Religions relate in many ways, they're all derived from simple religious beliefs. And probably all religions provide guidelines to live in order to gain access to a divine afterlife.

These arguments basically consist of a group of people pointing out errors in logic

You could put it like that...
where exactly do you draw the line between logical and illogical? simple opinion?

The question is, "How could God exist". So, if anyone has any actual ideas on how the God of Abraham (since he seems to be the one all these threads are centered around) can exist, I (and I am sure others) would be most interested in hearing some good, logical, arguments.

I certainly cant prove God at all...but If it's logical arguments you want, I can give you plenty.

For one there are many things is life that don't really have a purpose at all and stuff. Are these things errors in evolution?? or are they creations made to do things that do not benefit themselves? Why would there be a thing like that? because it was created by an artistic and complicated creator. There are things that we in no way can explain, and things that don't have a point. Things like faces on people? what's the need? animals are pretty hard to tell apart...why are we so unique? if all we're here to do is reproduced then die, why faces that differ? that only complicates and decreases reproduction. What is the point of beauty at all? attraction? sometimes attraction happens for no reason. And another thing laughter?...they say it's the best medicine but what is it really? and why don't animals have humor? again we're unique, I feel it's for a reason. We're so simular to monkeys it's visible, yet look at what we've acomplished compaired to them. Many people consider that God created humans to resemble 'himself' If that's the case than all of the things I mentioned seem logical. Therefore I ask you this

How couldn't God exist?

Originally Posted by mrblonde77

Actually there isn't, and that is exactly what we're trying to make you guys see. Unfortunately you've been repeatedly conditioned to reject such an idea.

Exactly
you atheists are hypocrites in a bunch of ways, you say you dislike how Christians try to force our religious opinions on others. Well what are you trying to do? convince me into 'seeing" into your own belief...
Which is pointless because I'll never be convinced that there isn't a God. All the theories in the world combined couldn't disprove God, and never will.

[JesusC]

Originally Posted by cannabis

Exactly
you atheists are hypocrites in a bunch of ways, you say you dislike how Christians try to force our religious opinions on others. Well what are you trying to do? convince me into 'seeing" into your own belief...
Which is pointless because I'll never be convinced that there isn't a God. All the theories in the world combined couldn't disprove God, and never will.

From what I have read nobody was pushing anything on "you christians" or whatever you want to be called.

The point he was trying to make is that you believe in god, although there is no evidence there is one. The same can be said for Unicorns and Leprecons. There is no evidence they exist, but there also also no evidence that they dont either.

Nobody is pushing anything on you, thats just the way it is. You cant prove Unicorns do or do not exist and the same goes for god....no matter how much you hate the idea.



Truth is truth.

[cannabis]

Originally Posted by JesusC

From what I have read nobody was pushing anything on "you christians" or whatever you want to be called.

By his post he's implying that I shouldn't consider my Belief to be anything other than fiction and that I was spoon fed my religion.

The point he was trying to make is that you believe in god, although there is no evidence there is one. The same can be said for Unicorns and Leprecons. There is no evidence they exist, but there also also no evidence that they dont either.

Nobody is pushing anything on you, thats just the way it is. You cant prove Unicorns do or do not exist and the same goes for god....no matter how much you hate the idea.

And my point is believing in imaginative figures like those isn't logical, But believing in a God like the god of Abraham is deff logical.

Truth is truth.

But is it truth? or you're opinion?

[mrblonde77]

Originally Posted by cannabis

Well not really, I guess I should have specified my argument. When i say the idea of a God, I'm talking about monotheism...the belief in a God like creator of Life. Call him whatever you want but the idea of believing in a God is completely logical. Therefore comparing God to other simple imaginative figures is ridiculous, There's no unicorn Bible last time I checked, no one can say everything in the Bible is false. Therefore one can consider God realistic.

There are "unicorn bibles" they just aren't called that. Fairy tale anthologies do exist and they are a lot more entertaining than the Bible. And yeah sure I guess you can't say EVERYTHING in the Bible is false, but I wouldn't exactly call it a History book. It's about as accurate as a Greek mythology book.

Originally Posted by cannabis

Exactly
you atheists are hypocrites in a bunch of ways, you say you dislike how Christians try to force our religious opinions on others. Well what are you trying to do? convince me into 'seeing" into your own belief...
Which is pointless because I'll never be convinced that there isn't a God. All the theories in the world combined couldn't disprove God, and never will.

Generalizing gets you into trouble. I don't believe I've complained of Christians trying to force their religion on others, because frankly, I don't think they do anymore than atheists like myself trying to convince people god doesn't exist. I think that whole argument is stupid because there are plenty of better reasons to hate Christianity. And yes, I'm trying to make you atheist because there's no reason to believe god exists. As I've said before, the default decision in the matter of theism should be atheism since there has never been, nor ever will be any proof.

[JesusC]

Originally Posted by cannabis

And my point is believing in imaginative figures like those isn't logical

Exactly...which is why I dont believe in god.


I dont understand why people think its so logical to believe in "god", but not other imaginative figures. It is the same thing....

The TRUTH is that there is sanity in numbers. If enough people believe it, all of the sudden it aint all that crazy...(religion). However, the idea of god and the devil or heaven and hell is just as illogical as the idea of apollo, zeus, or unicorns.

Logic and religion do not go hand in hand.

Logic would suggest that we arent alone in the universe, that there are many other life forms...perhaps advanced life forms, and that life is something that exists all over the universe. Logic supports the idea of evolution, not religion.

[mrblonde77]

Originally Posted by CH3VELLE

Einstein knew the principles of relativity before there was any scientifc "proof."

this in itself is proof that it is possible that one can know something is true without any of its own.

But the scientific proof has come no more than 75 years after his idea. The idea of God has been around for 78,000 years and yet no one has given any proof at all....I think it's time to throw in the towel.

[CH3VELLE]

Originally Posted by mrblonde77

But the scientific proof has come no more than 75 years after his idea. The idea of God has been around for 78,000 years and yet no one has given any proof at all....I think it's time to throw in the towel.

throwing in the towel is the easy thing to do. im gonna fight this one through!

AMEN