Catholicism & Protestantism - similarities and differences.

[MelT]

Just for clarity in threads elsewhere:

Catholicism and Protestantism are merely variations of the same religion, christianity - not two completely different religions. Same source, same God, same Jesus, same commandments. Where they differ is in SOME of the man-made dogma that surrounds them. That they differ does not make one real christianity and the other not, despite what both sides say of each other.

I must stress again that neither side (please note, BIG letters) -NEITHER SIDE - practises christianity as it was originally taught by Jesus. Before anyone even thinks about saying this is untrue, please study the historical and political development of theological doctrine over the first thousand years of christianity, and spend at least 6 months reading texts from the Nag Hammadi library, and not either a protestant or catholic interpretation of same.

From Religious Tolerance.org. This essay compares Roman Catholicism with the conservative wing of Protestantism.

In the 16th century, during the Protestant Reformation, many faith groups split away from the Roman Catholic Church. This destroyed the relative unity of Christendom in western Europe. The Protestant movement further fragmented during the following centuries. At the present time, there are over a thousand Christian denominations in North America alone, in addition to many thousands of independent, unaffiliated congregations, para-church organizations, and personal or couple ministries. Although there are many mainline and liberal Protestant faith groups, most are conservative in nature.
Some beliefs of the Roman Catholic church and conservative Protestant denominations are in opposition to each other. Examples are:

<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->The acceptance of the theory of evolution by the Catholic church, and the continuing rejection by most conservative Protestants.<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->The acceptance of homosexual sexual orientation -- but not same-sex behavior -- as morally neutral by the Catholic Church, but not by many conservative Protestants.<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->The rejection of the death penalty by the Catholic church, and the continuing acceptance and promotion by most conservative Protestants.<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Catholics place ultimate interpretive authority in the Pope and Magesterium. Conservative Protestants place it with the individual Christian and his/her interpretation of the Bible.<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Catholics teach that the bread and wine during the mass becomes the actual body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. Protestants generally regard the two components as symbolic of Jesus' body and blood.
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The gap between the two groups appears to be increasing over time. Future reunification of the Christian religion appears impossible.

NOTE - Both Catholics and conservative Protestants generally agree on some major theological matters, like the existence of angels, Mary's virgin conception; Jesus' sinless life, incarnation, crucifixion, bodily resurrection, and his imminent return of Jesus to Earth in the second coming; Heaven, Hell; the Trinity, and the deity of Jesus. They agree that his execution brought about atonement -- the potential to bridge the gulf between humanity and God caused by sin. However they disagree on how this was achieved. They partly agree about the significance of baptism, but disagree about the timing when it is normally performed.

They do not agree on which books are included in the official canon of the Bible. Perhaps the main difference between conservative Protestantism and Roman Catholicism is expressed by the "five Solas". "Sola" means "alone" in Latin. The first three Sola statements of the early Protestant movement stressed that:

<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->"Sola Scriptura:" The Bible is the sole authority for Christian beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church stresses a balance between Biblical support and the tradition of the Church itself.<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->"Sola Gratia:" One is saved through grace alone, given to the believer by God directly. The Catholic Church stresses the importance of church sacraments as a channel for God's grace.<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->"Sola Fide:" Salvation is by the individual's faith alone in trusting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Again, the Catholic Church stresses the importance of church sacraments.
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There also exists a great gulf between the two groups on other matters of belief and church practice -- particularly with regard to the rapture, authority within the church, church organization, freedom of the individual, freedom of each congregation, etc.

<TABLE height=600 borderColorDark=#000099 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffcc borderColorLight=#000099 border=3><TBODY><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Theological Belief<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Roman Catholic Church<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Conservative Protestants<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Apostolic succession <!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Believe that present-day ordinations can all be traced back to the original apostles.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Concept rejected as historically invalid; it simply didn't happen.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Attitude towards each other<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->The church considers Protestants to be Christians, but possessing only part of the truth.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Some consider Catholics to be non-Christians<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Authority within the church<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Vested in the hierarchy of the church.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Within the believer (soul freedom), the congregation and the denomination.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Baptism, significance of<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Sacrament which regenerates and justifies.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Testimony of a prior regeneration after trusting Jesus as Lord and savior. <!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Baptism, timing <!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Usually done in infancy.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Usually done later in life after person is "born again."<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Bible, status of<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Historically teaches that the original writings by Bible authors are inerrant. This is being debated.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->The original writings of the biblical authors' writings are inerrant.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Bible, content<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->The church includes the same 66 books in the Bible as do Protestants. But it also adds the books of the Apocrypha.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Most accept only the 66 books of the Old and New Testament. Most conservative Anglicans also include the Apocrypha. <!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Change of beliefs, practices<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Debate and dialogue is sometimes forbidden -- particularly on human sexuality topics.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Relatively free discussion allowed, except, in some denominations, on matters related to homosexuality.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Church, structure<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Hierarchical.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Usually democratic, except among some new religious movements.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Clergy, selection of<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Appointed; all male; almost all unmarried.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Elected; mostly male; single or married.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Discipline<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Pressure from the clergy and laity. In serious cases, errant members can be denied the sacraments or excommunicated.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Pressure from the clergy and laity. Various denomination have formal policies of shunning, disfellowshipping and excommunication.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Ecumenical action<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->The Church views the fragmentation of Christianity into thousands of faith groups to be a sin. They want non-Catholic Christians join the Catholic Church.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Some view Catholics as non-Christian. Thus they are to be treated as other lost souls, on a par with Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Wiccans, etc. Others view Catholics as brothers in Christ and engage in joint projects on social matters.<!--mstheme-->
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Forgiveness of sin<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Achieved through repentance, church ritual, with the involvement of a priest. However, a person can be baptized or had their last confession heard by anyone<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Achieved through prayer to God directly without any human intercessor.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Hell<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->More than a physical place, hell is a state of being involving "the pain, frustration, and emptiness of life without God."<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->A real physical place of unbearable torture which lasts for all eternity with no hope of mercy, relief or cessation. <!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Homosexuality, nature of<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->A homosexual orientation is generally unchosen and thus is not, in itself, sinful. It is a disordered state. However, all homosexual behavior is sinful.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->They generally downplay the concept of sexual orientation, and concentrate on homosexual behavior which they consider to be a major sin. They view homosexuality as chosen, unnatural, abnormal & changeable.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Immaculate Conception of Mary, circa 20 BCE. (Note 1) [See also, virgin birth, below]<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Required belief.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Denied.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Infallibility of the Pope<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->in rare circumstances, members are required to believe in matters of religious doctrine and faith as stated by the Pope.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Denied.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Limbo<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->A place for infants who die before being baptized, and for Old Testament saints. <SUB>6</SUB> Concept is not officially taught.<SUB> 8 </SUB>Most Catholic theologians have abandoned belief in limbo.<SUB> 7</SUB><!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Existence denied.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Lord's supper/Eucharist<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->A sacrifice. Christ's body and blood are physically present and are consumed by believers.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Memorial meal. Christ's body and blood are present symbolically only.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Mary's status<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Mary's status is below Jesus', but above that of the saints. Some regard Mary as co- redemptrix with Jesus; this is not currently taught by the church.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=38><!--mstheme-->The Virgin Mary plays a relatively minor role. Only trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior saves a person.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Non-Christian religions<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Have some value for the truth that they contain. However, some rituals can inhibit salvation.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Some consider them worthless, dangerous, and demon-led.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Prayer<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->To God. Also may ask Mary or a saint to intercede on their behalf.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Prayer is addressed to God, not to saints.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Purgatory<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=38><!--mstheme-->A state of being in which souls are cleansed by purifying punishments before they can enter heaven.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=38><!--mstheme-->Does not exist.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Sacraments<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->The means of grace.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->The symbols of grace.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Saints<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Saints form a major part of the religion. People can pray to saints and ask them to intercede.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Saints do not form a major part of the religion. One prays to God, not to saints.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Salvation, achieving<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Dependant on faith, and church sacraments.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Dependent on faith only.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Salvation, losing<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->It is lost when a responsible person commits a mortal sin. It can be regained through repentance and church sacrament.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Usually, once a person is saved, they cannot lose their salvation. Some denominations teach that one can lose one's salvation.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Salvation among non-Christians<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->It is possible that those outside the Roman Catholic Church can be saved in spite of the errors in their religious beliefs.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Opinions differ. Many feel that all those who have not been saved are lost and will spend eternity being tortured in Hell.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Statues, venerating<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Frequent veneration of statues and images as symbols of Jesus, Mary and of the individual saints.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Many consider veneration of statues as idolatry -- a violation of the "graven images" prohibition in the second of the Ten Commandments.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Truth<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Mainly found in scripture, as interpreted by the church. Also found in church tradition.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Most believe it is found only in scripture, as interpreted through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit within the saved individual, their congregation and denomination. <!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Virgin birth (actually virgin conception; circa 5 BCE) See Note 1.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Required belief.<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=19><!--mstheme-->Nearly universal belief.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%" height=24><!--mstheme-->Visibility of the Church<!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="33%" height=24><!--mstheme-->The hierarchy of the Church, including the laity, plus the Church's Spirit, referred to as the "Spotless Bride of Christ." <!--mstheme--></TD><TD width="34%" height=24><!--mstheme-->Invisible fellowship of all saved individuals. Only God knows the exact makeup of the Church.<!--mstheme--></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--mstheme-->

Note 1: Many people confuse the Immaculate Conception with the virgin birth. The former is a Roman Catholic belief that in about 20 BCE when Mary herself was conceived, she was without original sin. The latter is a generally held belief among all conservative and most mainline Christian denominations that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived about 6 BCE. Religious liberals generally consider both to be mythical events that never happened.

MelT

[IGotTheCottons]

Originally Posted by MelT

Before anyone even thinks about saying this is untrue, please study the historical and political development of theological doctrine over the first thousand years of christianity, and spend at least 6 months reading texts from the Nag Hammadi library, and not either a protestant or catholic interpretation of same.

I guess that means I'm fair game - as I've been studying this issue IN DEPTH from BOTH sides of the argument (also from non-biased sources as well) for nearly a DECADE. While a good amount of the information in your post IS accurate, it's not ENTIRELY so.

Go read my article about Roman Catholicism that was written by a Catholic Priest, and tell me they're the same religion then. I mean c'mon, even a freaking CATHOLIC PRIEST agrees that they're different religions. I'm sorry - FORMER Catholic Priest. Eventually he got sick of teaching shit that directly contradicts both His version of the Bible, and the Protestants' version of the Bible, so he converted.

EDIT: If I had the time, I could literally pick apart almost that entire chart up there, as there's a fair amount of inaccuracy there.

[weedypowerpuff]

The catholic church considered to be a mother church never really let the protestants go. And they were not really sure where to turn. I believe that the protestants fell prey to beelzebub, entity in charge of lust, greed, and murder.

Alot of news stories and tid bits from across America seem to back this up. The churches are worldly places in general. The people at alot of them seem to crave the approval of man through wealth, and social status, and I can tell you that alot, and I mean alot of these church going protestants are eat up with just these things. And sadly the issues grow everyday. Read about it from all over it's there to read. It's crazy when churches tout the Passion of the Christ as a film all must see. It was mean spirited garbage. And when the lion the witch and the wardrobe was realesed they took the children and trumpeted the spirituality of the film. There are so many things wrong with that. I'll stop here.

[MelT]

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

I guess that means I'm fair gain - as I've been studying this issue IN DEPTH from BOTH sides of the argument (also from no biased sources as well) for nearly a DECADE. While a good amount of the information in your post IS accurate, it's not ENTIRELY so.

Go read my article about Roman Catholicism that was written by a Catholic Priest, and tell me they're the same religion then. I mean c'mon, even a freaking CATHOLIC PRIEST agrees that they're different religions. I'm sorry - FORMER Catholic Priest. Eventually he got sick of teaching shit that directly contradicts both His version of the Bible, and the Protestants' version of the Bible, so he converted.
[/size][/size]

Sorry, I did, and found it as inaccurate - and derogatory - as your other postings about this on so many counts it's just not worth going into, especially as others have done the same and you've completely disregarded what they've said and just reposted the same information as before as though it answers their criticsms. Catholics are christians. It's only certain protestants who believe any different, nobody looking in from the outside would describe catholics as non-christian, it's just a protestant belief, and that does not make it true.

If you don't think this is accurate about Catholicism then your argument is with the Religous Tolerance.org, a site known for its accuracy and fairness by both sides. It's received praise from just about every denomination going. I think they'd be interested to hear that the theologians who contribute to it (who are again from all denominations) are wrong.

Nobody has said that catholicism and protestantism don't differ, but you're failing in using the wrong terminology. They are different BRANCHES of christianity, not different religions. A different religion is Islam, or Wicca, for example. They're different traditions, not different religions.

Buddhism has many major divisions, each with its own practises, rituals and approaches; but nobody within any of these traditions would say that another form was not Buddhism, it would be ridiculous to make an assertion like that. Why do christians feel so insecure that they need to keep rubbishing other groups within their own faith?

In terms of experience, I hate willy waving, but if we are going to do it then in terms of experience in theology and political history in the middle and near east, read from an unbiased stance, you're lagging behind me by some 25 years. I think you and I should agree to differ. I'll post pro-catholic, you post pro-protestant. Don't think for one second that this is about a catholic bias on my part. If you were a catholic saying the same thing about a protestant I would attack you in the same way.

MelT

[IGotTheCottons]

Originally Posted by MelT

Sorry, I did, and found it as inaccurate - and derogatory - as your other postings about this on so many counts it's just not worth going into, especially as others have done the same and you've completely disregarded what they've said and just reposted the same information as before as though it answers their criticsms. Catholics are christians. It's only certain protestants who believe any different, nobody looking in from the outside would describe catholics as non-christian, it's just a protestant belief, and that does not make it true.

If you don't think this is accurate about Catholicism then your argument is with the Religous Tolerance.org, a site known for its accuracy and fairness by both sides. It's received praise from just about every denomination going. I think they'd be interested to hear that the theologians who contribute to it (who are again from all denominations) are wrong.

Nobody has said that catholicism and protestantism don't differ, but you're failing in using the wrong terminology. They are different BRANCHES of christianity, not different religions. A different religion is Islam, or Wicca, for example. They're different traditions, not different religions.

Buddhism has many major divisions, each with its own practises, rituals and approaches; but nobody within any of these traditions would say that another form was not Buddhism, it would be ridiculous to make an assertion like that. Why do christians feel so insecure that they need to keep rubbishing other groups within their own faith?

In terms of experience, I hate willy waving, but if we are going to do it then in terms of experience in theology and political history in the middle and near east, read from an unbiased stance, you're lagging behind me by some 25 years. I think you and I should agree to differ. I'll post pro-catholic, you post pro-protestant. Don't think for one second that this is about a catholic bias on my part. If you were a catholic saying the same thing about a protestant I would attack you in the same way.

MelT

Yes, but there has to come a point, when a particular branch moves so far away from the original doctrines of a religion that it can actually be considered a separate religion. Catholicism may have started as being based on Christian principles and doctrine, but it has since moved FAR from these. When a religion teaches things that directly contradict the things that are written in the foundation of of said religion, I'd consider that to no longer be the original religion. Paul himself (an apostle) said that if "anyone come to you preaching <b>any other gospel</b>, even if delivered by <b>an angel</b>" that they'd "be accursed". Even if delivered by an angel... Think about that for a second.

Also, think about the gospel as taught by the Catholic church. It is a different gospel. The original gospel preached by Christ and the Apostles was that of faith (I can post Scriptures all day proving this beyond a shadow of a doubt), not of works. The gospel taught by the Catholic church is one of Works (the sacraments). They are not the same gospel. When a verse says "For by grace are ye saved, <b>through faith</b>" and "<b>not of works</b>... lest any man should boast" how else can you interpret that? Where is there any wiggle room for any other interpretation? Please show me.

Or here's another one... Where is the Catholic verse showing that it's by works and not faith alone? There is none. Not in the entire Bible, and I've read both of them cover to cover (Catholic and Protestant). There's not one single verse that says anything about completing the sacraments in either Bible. Shit, most of the sacraments aren't even mentioned in Scripture (mass, for one, confession for another). About the only sacraments found in scripture is Baptism and Communion. Which if you take it to the Greek, you'll find that grammatically speaking, both of these acts are mere representations of Christ's atoning sacrifice.

I can say that Catholicism is a FORM of Christianity, but only vaguely slow. Like I said in my original post that sparked this whole thing, Catholicism = Christianity + Roman Paganism. Go back and re-read if you doubt me. The main point I've been trying to make is this: <b>Doctrinally speaking, the Catholic church couldn't be further from the Christianity preached/practiced by the Apostles</b>.

Hell, even Peter referred to himself as a Presbyter (The term pastor would be today's form of this word), not a Pope. But yet Catholic doctrine teaches that Peter was the first pontiff.

When looked at more closely, the Greek word used "taute" ALWAYS points to the previous statement made (as is the case in Matthew 24 when it says "this generation will not come to pass", it was referring to the previous statement made by Jesus about the signs of the coming)... The word "this" in Matthew 24 (taute) is the same as the word "this" in the statement "you are Peter, the rock. And on <b>this</b> (taute) rock will I build my church." The pronoun "taute" was used, and points to Peter's confession of Faith that Jesus was the Christ - As the Greek word "taute" is a past-tense term. Much like the word "was" is used to show past-tense, as opposed to present-tense. Peter's confession was the rock on which Christ built his church, not Peter himself - at least if they were using proper grammar when writing that statement. And this information came from a secular Greek historian.

You say my article was inaccurate and derogatory, but yet it was written by a Catholic Priest. I didn't pen those words, a CATHOLIC Priest did. I think a Priest would know more about what the Catholic church believes than you or I, or anyone else on GC for that matter. That's similar to arguing with a Pastor about what his denomination believes in... A priest -- someone who went to school for his particular branch of faith, and someone who spent the better part of his life in the priesthood, definitely knows his shit about his religion, would you not agree? So then why would you say that he's writing inaccuracies about his own faith (or what once was his own faith)? Every point he made, he backed up with Scripture, from the Catholic Bible nonetheless. But yet you're still going to say he's wrong? I'm sorry, but I fail to see how you can be so audacious as to think you know more about the Catholic religion than a Catholic Priest does.

Originally Posted by MelT

Don't think for one second that this is about a catholic bias on my part. If you were a catholic saying the same thing about a protestant I would attack you in the same way.

Yeah man, I know this, and respect that. I like discussing things like this with you because of your demeanor towards the whole thing. You're a lot more - well - polite, I guess would be a good word. You don't get as worked up as a lot of us other debaters here (which is a good thing, it shows you're more level-headed). Your posts make me think, which I think is awesome. I love being challenged, and like gaining new perspectives on things. I'll agree to disagree with you, if that's how you really want it, but I like discussing these things... Don't think I totally disregard what other people post, though. I don't. I look over it all with a fairly open mind, because I know I don't know everything. A lot of what gets posted is by people who don't really know what they're talking about, as they haven't done much study into the issue - but I never totally disregard it. Just because I disagree doesn't necessarily mean I disregard.

[chronictoker]

I don't really see why this topic is worthy of debate I thought it was common sense that they're both branches of christianity, that's all I need to know...

it boils down to personal bias, and definitions/wording and I'm not the one to debate religious semantics...

I may chime in, though, as I said in the other thread I feel it's pretty immoral to come off that protestants are somehow "better" or "less responsible" for aspects of the religion. It's just seems silly...it's politics. It sounds sleazy to me...and makes the whole religion look worse, but that's the opinion of an insider turned outsider, so biased as well

[dirtydingusus]

i stil say fuck religin and start dealy with sprituality

spirtuality is what religin is suposed to be about none of the rest of this shit realy means anything we can all find he truth inside of ourselves

in the bible ...the book they all claim to follow....
it sayes church is any place 2 or more people are gathered in my name...not the place where you go to be told how to live...

[MelT]

Cottons - I should've added this to my second post, as what you said gave me a twitch of real unieasiness about yet another discussion getting too heated, mainly due to me. You said, "Guess I'm fair game now." Which really isn't the case, I'm not out to get you. Your beliefs do not define you as a human being, or how you would act in any given situation. I've seen you show intelligence and humility at times here, I know you are not your beliefs, you are Cottons, and a person behind those beliefs.

I'll get back to you with some witty response or another in the morning. Have a good evening

MelT

PS Dammit Weedy! How many times do we have to say don't attack people!!

WEEDY: [quote] I believe that the protestants fell prey to beelzebub, entity in charge of lust, greed, and murder.[quote/]

LOL....love this place....

M

[Hit That Shit]

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

I guess that means I'm fair game - as I've been studying this issue IN DEPTH from BOTH sides of the argument (also from non-biased sources as well) for nearly a DECADE. While a good amount of the information in your post IS accurate, it's not ENTIRELY so.

Go read my article about Roman Catholicism that was written by a Catholic Priest, and tell me they're the same religion then. I mean c'mon, even a freaking CATHOLIC PRIEST agrees that they're different religions. I'm sorry - FORMER Catholic Priest. Eventually he got sick of teaching shit that directly contradicts both His version of the Bible, and the Protestants' version of the Bible, so he converted.

EDIT: If I had the time, I could literally pick apart almost that entire chart up there, as there's a fair amount of inaccuracy there.

Just wanted to point that out. A former Catholic priest. I bet there is at least one Protestant who has said the same about his prior beliefs. Do not put one man's idea as fact. That is opinion. It is not theory, it is not fact.

You have your opinion, others have theirs. We are in a changing world, people's situations change, so for whatever reason a man decides to change faith, is his own personal reason. Do not think he is Christ reborn and is shedding truth on us "real quick so we know for the future".